Anyone not having scans?

[amitymama]

I've been reading more about scans and am not sure that I want to have both of the standard 12-week and 20-week ones. If I'm reading it right, the 12-week looks to see how many babies there are, that the placenta is in the right place and that's when they do the nuchal testing. That one seems more important to me. But what is the purpose of the 20-week scan other than to test for abnormalities? If I know I wouldn't abort even if there were something terribly wrong with the baby, is there really any point in having it done? I know most people jump at the chance to have as many scans as possible but I think they are kind of needless and studies have not concluded that they are completely harmless to the fetus.

Has anyone refused a scan? If so, why and how did your care provider react? Which scan(s) did you skip?

I think that if you don't want scans then thats your choice, no point worrying about what anyone else thinks about it. I do think though that i personally would always want an ultrasound during a pregnancy not only because of the diagnostic side of it but because they are a wonderfull experience and give you a real insight in to whats going on in your body.

I'd be interested to see if there are any studies which suggest scanning could be dangerous, i doubt there are any though. Millions and millions women are scanned every day on this planet of ours, if there were any negative effects of U/S they'd have been discovered by now given that we've been scanning women during pregnancy for a very long time.

My experience wasn't an anecdote - it was real and it happened to me. The plain and simple truth of the matter is that without scans and an undiagnosed condition there is a high likelihood that my dds and I would have died. End of.

I know that you feel strongly about being pushed around and told what to do, etc. I hated every single minute of my first hospital stay and I really couldn't see what all the fuss was about, mainly because I hadn't bled at all and so I thought the midwife, consultant and nurses were scaremongering when they wanted me admitted to hospital straight away... and then I did my own research and was horrified and decided that, in this case, the professionals did know best. The second time
it happened I didn't enjoy it one iota more but I was much more accepting of the situation and it made it easier.

There are ways of making your pregnancy as intervention-free as you can, but I think avoidance of scans is one that seems fairly pig-headed. Sorry if that offends, but I have scans to thank for mine and my daughters lives.

But, hey, your call... Good luck

You can research all you like - I did. But you also asked for opinions and like it or not, opinions are generally based on personal experience (where someone has had experience). I based my decision to have scans on my research and on my own and my friends' experiences. They're not anecdotes and tbh I find that a dismissive term.

Like I said, I hope you're lucky and you have a complication-free pregnancy. I didn't, and like Moomin, the scans were able to pick up and prevent a very serious complication which could have meant the death of my son.

For me, the benefits of the scan outweighed the risks and rather than cause me anxiety, reassured me.

But like I said in my first post, you have the right to refuse them. But I would expect that the people who are responsible for your care in your pregnancy will try and persuade you to have them if you want a homebirth, simply because it minimises the risk to you and your child from their perspective. Scans may not be perfect but they are the least invasive way we have of identifying potential problems.

Wishing you a trouble-free pregnancy.

I am wondering if you are a little defensive about this - I never made any implication that you were 'foolish' to risk your chance of a homebirth

I can state that with certainty as there was never any such thought in my mind. I don't think you are being at all foolish and I support your choice to refuse scans, if that is what you decide to do.

amitymama, you wrote: "A few people indicated that they thought I would be foolish to risky my baby's health or my chance at having a homebirth merely because I wanted some questions answered with facts, not anecdotes about the girl they knew whose baby died because she didn't have a scan and so-and-so's doctor told her they were best."

You asked for facts. It is a FACT that scans DO detect abnormalities in utero where there were NO OTHER indicators, natural or otherwise, which can and DO lead to life-saving interventions for the baby. You can argue about how low the risk is, the number of false positives, and the unnecessary worry, and the routine manner in which scans are prescribed for low risk women, and how high-handed or uninformed medical professionals can be. And you can call our personal experiences 'anecdotes'. But you cannot argue with that FACT.

I too will support you in any informed decision to refuse scans. I come from a family of doctors, so don't in any way have a rose-coloured view of the medical profession.

My big tip for you - if you want to refuse scans with the least hassle from the health professionals, then ask many many questions, listen and (pretend to) treat their answers with respect (even if you feel like arguing), don't deny that FACT, but say you have considered all risks and your decision is XYZ. In a matter of fact way. They will back off.

I was annoyed that having done extensive research about VBAC and electives, I asked for an elective but none of the midwives or consultants would give me a definite answer whether I would get one until I attended 2 VBAC clinics. At which I did not ask to be persuaded one way or another - I fired off a list of questions which showed I had thought about it a lot, wrote down all the answers. After that, I got my elective and the midwives were supportive. Maybe they wrote something in my notes.

If you did your research, you would be a rarity amongst the mothers-to-be. If if the health professionals can be condescending for this reason, they only want to make sure you know the risks. Does not mean that they are peddling borsch.

Lots of women are told that there are problems with their babies which turn out to be nothing, but have a huge stressful impact on the rest of their pregnancies.

There is some research to suggest that babies who have abnormalities which are detected by scan have higher mortality rates, and spend longer in special care baby units than those that are undetected until birth. The reasons for this is that they are born earlier more often by cs, and while a normal healthy baby might cope being born at say 36 weeks, a baby with a disability is less likely to. I'm afraid I can't remember where I read this, but will try and find it tomorrow.

I personally had 3 scans first time round, having initially thought that I might not have any. I had a relatively normal pregnancy, but for a short while it looked like it might not be. Second time round I had one routine one and a growth scan at 36w as my midwife thought he was small. The scan said 75th centile which he was born on, so it was very accurate.

If I was only having one scan I would definately have the 20 week scan as it gives lots more info than the 12 week one, as long as you are confident about your dates. The important thing is that you and your partner are happy with the decision that you make. Just bear in mind that although it has been suggested that it is irresponsible not to have one, that is not necessarily what the research suggests. (for a low risk woman)

Hope you have a good pregnancy.

The midirs informed choice about ultrasound scans leaflet is good, I can't find it on the internet to download, but your midwife should probably be able to get hold of one for you.

Our NHS Trust offer 12 and 20 week scans. I always opted to have them, if there was something wrong, or something suspected I'd prefer to have time to prepare.

In my 1st pg I had a bleed at 16 weeks so had an "extra" scan at that point which showed dd was fine - put my mind at rest greatly.

In my 2nd pg I had a bleed again at 16 weeks and was scanned which showed ds had died.

In my 3rd pg my first scan showed I was having twins which they saw to be monoamniotic, monochorionic. I was then scanned fortnightly from 16 weeks to check for cord entanglement, twin to twin transfusion etc and many other complications of that type of twin. It was due to the scans that we found out DT2 hadn't grown at all in 4 weeks, was the deciding factor in me having steriod injections to mature their lungs to prepare for early delivery and a subsequent c-section at 35 weeks.

So in my circumstances, scans worked in my favour. However, many many people I know haven't had any, so it is a very personal choice.

I feel like everything I'm saying is being misconstrued and twisted to make it sound like I'm denigrating the validity of scans for some people and in some instances. At any rate, I'm too exhausted running around after my toddler, being newly pregnant and trying to find information to be stressing about strangers' comments on a message board. I don't think this board was the right fit for me.

I wish you all happy and healthy pregnancies. Adieu!

Aww amity...don't go...

Hi, I'm a sonographer and - if I had any willpower at all- wouldn't have a scan. I see far too many ladies stressed out by the things we find that are not 'definite' in terms of risks or problems, and lead to higher stress levels and risk of intervention for the rest of pregnanct. The vast majority of scans are NORMAL. Abnormalities are picked up, however even the RCOG acnowledge the benefits of ROUTINE ultrasound in pregnancy are UNPROVEN depsite being in regular clinical use for over 30 years. Serious lack of research as there is the intrinsic belief that depriving women of scans is somehow unfair- and many women would be upset by this, going by the feelings expressed in this thread.
Now, I don't have any will power, I'm sat next to a scan machine as I type! so I have had an official scan and sneaky peeks myself. I also know if I was off work and away from temptation I would start of planning not to have any scans, and of course you can change your mind at any point. You can also ask for things NOT to be assessed- eg. if you were talked into/ decided to check the location of the placenta ( best at 32-36 weeks) you would not have to agree to anything else being done.
I hope you feel comfortable with whatever you decide on this obviously emotive topic. I also hope you might peek back at this sometime and catch my opinion too!
mumofk

mumofk...it is very interesting to see a sonographers take on it...because ibviously this is your forte...thanks for your imput.

The skill and training of sonographers varies greatly. They can spot potential abnormalities, but cannot always interpret the results. Also the quality of the picture given by individual machines also varies.

It is a referral system. My sonographer (who happened to be a visiting doctor on rotation from Harris Birthright, Kings College Hospital) spotted abnormalities at 13 weeks. I was then referred to Harris Birthright and re-scanned with better machines and looked at by what seemed a cast of a 1,000 doctors, including Prof Nicolaides.

If anything, sonographers are likely to miss things, rather than spot things. But if something is spotted, then it could be quite major. It is not perfect and yes, it does cause a lot of stress. I was continuously scanned from 13 weeks to 40 weeks, where I was advised to deliver naturally by induction in a hospital with a specialist neonatal heart unit. It is not an experience I would wish on my enemy. But it saved my dd's life.

I have no axe to grind. I am just telling people my experiences. Everyone's assessment of risk is different and so it is fine to decide what is best for you and baby.

All my (many) scans did was make me fearful as they kept flagging up 'problems' that weren't really problems at all. I do wonder how the weeks and weeks of anxiety I went through during my pregnancies as a result of these scans affected my babies. I really wish I hadn't had them now (although I suppose that's easy to say with hindsight as all three of my babies were healthy at birth).

Message withdrawn

Of course sonografers ability vary...must admit though, Trolley, that it isn't ideal that they had a trainee doing the scan without a qualified person at least attending...
I must admit, I got fed up on ys scan...because it was a trainne as well as qualified each doing one..took ages, and trainee pressed very hard on my tummy which was painful...but didn't want to sya anything, because it must be hard at first...
In germany it will also always be a OB/Gyn that performs antenatal scans...they are performed in the ob/gyns office....
In germany they used to scan to bits...like every single appointment, but that has reduced...a lot...I believe...unless it varies...
would be interesting to find out if it was reduced for cost reasons or because of other reasons...