Crippled with anxiety that it might be twins again *TRIGGER WARNING*

[Squiff70]

Please forgive me for this post but let me explain.

In January 2019 we lost twins at 19 weeks due to placental abruption. It was truely horrendous but we were determined we would love to be parents, so we tried again, conceiving in June the same year. Yep, twins a second time. Just before 23 weeks I went into spontaneous labour and delivered our babies. After four days our son passed away but after an awful lot of help and treatment, our little girl survived and is now a healthy and happy two year old. She spent 5.5 months in NICU and 7.5 months in hospital in total. IT WAS HELL and we nearly lost her several times.

Fast forward to today. I'm 4 weeks pregnant (found out on Sunday) and since then I haven't slept through fear that I might be carrying twins a third time.

I am not functioning. I am SO tired, sick, have very sore breasts and utterly, utterly drained. I go to bed about 11pm but am wide awake by 2.30am and don't get back to sleep. My partner is working all weekend and I need to look after our little girl but I can barely even lift her I'm so weak.

Is it worth asking my GP for an HCG blood test? I can't face waiting for a scan and even if I could be scanned today, which I can't, then I wouldn't want to look at the monitor just in case.

You must be asking why not twins again. I wouldn't cope mentally or physically with two babies (potentially) as well as our daughter. DP says "people do cope and you'd be fine" but he gets to escape to work. It's not like that for me. Apart from 2.5 hours of nursery once a week I care for our daughter 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and have done since she came out of hospital with no breaks. I just wouldn't cope with another two children. I have physical health problems as well as PTSD and depression and this is killing me.

I can't do this.

15 hours is for low income families. It's the 30 hours at 3 that are universal is my understanding.

Wishing you the best of luck, OP.

OP, you didn't say whether you are being treated for the PTSD. Forgive me if you are already having treatment for it, but if not, it might be an idea to talk to your GP about it and/or arrange EMDR privately.

What you've been through is affecting you so profoundly - dialling that down would improve your life so much.

EMDR sounds like witchcraft but there is good solid evidence of its effectiveness.

Have you applied for DLA for your DD? If so, she'd qualify for free childcare. I just pulled this screenshot off the gov.uk website.

Also, are there any nurseries run by the Co-Operative group near you? My DD has autism and global development delay. Started walking at 2.5 years, and is pretty much non-verbal at 4, and was accepted to go there (we started her at 14 months), and it is a mainstream private nursery.

The Co-Op nursery have been brilliant with DD; applying for inclusion funding, getting her started with PECs, and been in constant contact with local authority SEN team. I'd have applied for DLA if I'd have known about it earlier, as unfortunately don't qualify for 30 hours. The nursery are now helping me to apply for EHC needs assessment.

If you were able to do some of the above, it could help the feeling of being overwhelmed you are experiencing now.

You could also arrange for some early scans, so you become clearer on how many DC you are having. Even just knowing what lies ahead could help reduce the anxiety you are feeling.

@falalalalalalablahblah

15 hours is for low income families. It's the 30 hours at 3 that are universal is my understanding.

Wishing you the best of luck, OP.

30 hours free funding is only available to families where both partners individually earn less than £100,000 per year. If either mum or dad earns more than £100,000 on their own, the family will only qualify for 15 hours free childcare, and that will start at age 3 (unless one of the conditions I screenshot previously is met at age 2).

If portage is available in your area then you might be able to access that if your daughter is only at nursery for a few hours a week.

www.portage.org.uk/about/what-portage

I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. It sounds very tough and I hope you can get some reassurance soon.

But also I wanted to say how pleased I am to hear how well your daughter is doing. I remember you from the TTC after miscarriage threads and you've often popped into my head and I've wondered how you and your daughter are doing

You sound like you're doing a marvellous job in very difficult circumstances.

Thank you so much for your replies.

With regards rto nursery funding, my daughter has only just turned two and is being reassessed for DLA currently. She was on oxygen and fed by tube until August. As soon as they stopped I wrote to the DWP to tell them about the change in circumstances. They sent me a new application form which I filled in and sent back. They are continuing to pay her DLA for now but I understand it may change or stop. As a result of this, the local council turned down funding for a place at nursery (my DD has only just turned two) based on the fact that they "cannot determine" our eligibility - I presume because the DLA assessment could go either way. The letter also says the decision is final and cannot be challenged. After Christmas I shall try getting hold of our health visitor to see if she can suggest anything. She is virtually impossible to get hold of and never returns calls (actually she's been useless since day 1) so it might be easier and quicker to ask the nursery she attends one morning a week. They are closed for Christmas now but it can all be sorted out in the new year.

I'm still an anxious mess and waking up very early but keep telling myself if there's only one baby in there then all this anxiety is for nothing.

I really, really appreciate all the support and links for outside/external sources of help too - I am looking into all of it.

Hi OP

Have you thought about booking an early scan to confirm firm either way? I'm guessing you'd be around 5 weeks shortly so by next week they'd be able to see if there was 2 sacs or not? X

@bonetiredwithtwins yep, my GP said last week to give her a call in a couple of weeks and she will refer me for an early scan. I'll give her a call next Thursday and ask her to arrange it.

Mind charity offer befrienders who can support you and helpneith yourbtoddler whilst having a bad pregnancy. Face to face visitsnor calls, i met some recently and v lovely and all had v similar experiences themsekves so they totally get it. Specialist team too

Have you tried contacting your health visitor. They may know how to get extra help for your LO. There are parent support groups etc

Thank you @Lotsalotsagiggles, I'll get in touch with my local branch of Mind if I need to.

@Mummy2C my last post on this thread outlined a little how useless our health visitor has been. She hasn't been in touch for nearly a year and never returns my calls.

Hope you're doing well OP. Are there any private scan clinics near you. Groupon usually have offers. Can get you seen quicker.

Afternoon @zippityzip and everyone.

I rang my GP first thing this morning and they arranged a scan at the EPU on 4th Jan. It's less than a week away and my partner is allowed in with me BUT they are not allowing children in under any circumstances and we have nobody who can look after our daughter for a couple of hours. I've therefore been trying to book a private scan but the clinic wasn't answering the phone this morning. I left a message asking them to call me back but haven't heard anything as yet. I suspect they are closed today and possibly all this week. IF they are they probably won't be in touch until Tuesday next week which doesn't give me long to cancel the NHS scan. I really don't know what to do.

Do your daughter's disabilities make it harder to arrange for her to be looked after by someone else? If so you could try contacting PALS to ask for an exception to be made as a reasonable adjustment?

@NotVictorianHonestly in a way yes - she is two now (recently) and her moderate developmental delay means she isn't walking or talking yet (beyond mama and dada). She doesn't have any other disabilities now (she did have but came off oxygen in the summer and was fed by tube until a similar time too). We just don't live near anyone we'd leave her with tbh. Our closest friend locally has two very young children of her own. We COULD ask her if she could look after our daughter for a couple of hours (that's even assuming she's free on that particular day) but we'd need/want to tell her why and we're not ready to tell anyone about this pregnancy yet, even though we know our secret would be safe with this other mum.

Anyway, today I've booked a private scan. They didn't have any availablity until next Friday (7th Jan) and that's coincidentally the next day my DP is off work and can both attend. Providing there's no lockdown between now and then (and there probably will be) then they are happy for our daughter to come with us too. If there is a lockdown they will ring us to advise us of new rules but I'd paid a deposit and am a bit concered I won't get that back if we decide not to go if they can't let the three of us in.

Another 8 full days of excruciating anxiety to come.

I had a frank discussion with DP tonight on what our options are if it's twins (or more) again. I said "If it was solely my decision, which it isn't because it's ours, then I would opt for a selective reduction. There's a risk we'd lose both babies but my track record for carrying twins to term is terrible and as HORRIBLE as it would be, I'd rather lose one early on knowing the other has a chance of survival, than lose them both very late on or neonatally." He didn't take it very well at first, totally understandably, but I think he's thinking now about what I said.

I'm so truly sorry to anyone reading this who made have lost one or more babies from a multiple pregnancy - please forgive me but please try to understand my circumstances. I don't want to hurt anyone with this thread, at all. It's the last thing I'd ever want to do but you'd all been so thoughtful and supportive and I truly appreciate it.

Op. A few thoughts. for everything you’ve been through.

First, it sounds like you need ongoing support to work through your grief and the (completely normal) anxiety it’s bringing to this pregnancy. Are you in touch with SANDS?

Second, whatever happens you need to build more childcare options, do give you a break while pregnant and getting the rest and care you need however things pan out, and to help you if / when your next baby arrives .

Could you afford a mothers help? It sounds like you’re around at home, so you could look for someone younger / less qualified / part time to come a few hours a day to help around the house, learn about the care your current DC needs so you can have a break. And they could also help you if / when your next baby arrives.

I’ve found both our (excellent) nannies from gumtree, writing a specific advert on what we need and then sorting through applicants to short list carefully. Then two rounds of interviews to narrow down further, a trial morning before making an offer then a pro anti on period at the start.

Neither had nanny experience before but that’s actually worked out great for us as I taught them how I wanted my kids to be cared for and how I wanted things done.

You speak in your posts about having no one nearby that can help you. We are similar but have built warm supportive family like relationships with our nannies and it makes all the difference in the world.

Oh @Squiff70 sorry you have a long wait. I know the days feel like forever.

Don't apologise for how you feel. I could never imagine being in your position. Get the facts and then you can plan with decent medical support and information.

I hope in between now and the scan you can find support in DH xx

I remember you @Squiff70. You lost your babies around the same time I lost my second daughter at 21 weeks. I'm so pleased you have a lovely daughter now, but sorry her brother didn't survive.

I know how devastated we were when we lost our one baby. I cannot imagine how you have coped with your experiences. Much love to you both.

We didn't go on to have another pregnancy, partly because we already had a healthy daughter, but partly because we were terrified of going through that again.

I suppose I just wanted to post to say good luck. I understand a bit of how you're feeling and that it's ok to be anxious. I will be thinking of you on your scan day.

@Catsstillrock thank you for your suggestions. I certainly won't be looking for a nanny on Gumtree but would consider employing one once a week so I can take myself off swimming or something. I'm absolutely not in touch with SANDS, no. After we lost our first set of twins I contacted them for support and all they did was hound me for donations. I did some fundraising and sent around £300 in donations and they kept hounding me for more, so I cut ties with them. I understand they are a charity and rely on donations but not once did they offer me/us condolences or invite us to talk about the babies we'd just lost. Never again. Bliss, Aching Arms and Tommy's on the other hand seem to offer a lot more support.

@zippityzip yep, the days are long, as are the nights when you can't sleep (that's every night for me. I have noooo problem getting to sleep but come 2.40am, 4am at the latest, I'm awake and out of bed).

I felt I should apologise for how I feel. EVERYBODY who is pregnant just wants a healthy baby, or babies. The fact that this pregnancy is planned and now I'm considering this as an option must be upsetting to some who've suffered loss. I have a friend who conceived twins and by 10 weeks one of her twins had vanished. Thankfully her other twin survived and is a healthy little girl, but my friend is very much bereaved and talks about her lost twin all the time. I don't think I could every tell her if I had to go through with this.

I remember you too @mellongoose! How are you? I'm so sorry for the loss of your second daughter. I can only imagine and sympathise with you. This pregnancy was planned, as were my others, but I didn't expect to feel this way which I think was very naieve of me! Thank you for your reply - please keep your fingers crossed for one healthy baby for us x

@Squiff70

So sorry you are no further forward in knowing about this pregnancy - do you feel in your heart it's twins again?
I can understand your thoughts around selective reduction - the thought had passed my mind if we did a single embryo transfer and somehow had twins again (although I'm not sure I could go through with it i think the guilt would consume me as they got older)

Did the doctors ever give a reason for your placental abruption and then early delivery the second time? Are you able to speak to your consultant to ask about what can be done if you got pregnant again? If you have a weak cervix there is no guarantees that even with a singleton pregnancy that you could carry to term?

Gosh OP,
Your plate is very full, I’m glad you’ve got some channels for support.
The easiest way to find out if you are having twins is to buy a clear blue test, the digital one which shows how many weeks you are. If you know you should only be two weeks, and it shows 3+ for example, it’s twins. Or it was in my case and with many of the twin mums I’ve spoken to.
I’m not sure that will be much help now your 5 or 6 weeks?

I had to go through all my scans alone as, like you, my dh had to look after our other children. The staff were very understanding and kind, I’m sure they will be to you too.
Sending lots of unmumsnetty hugs.

[quote Squiff70]@zippityzip yep, the days are long, as are the nights when you can't sleep (that's every night for me. I have noooo problem getting to sleep but come 2.40am, 4am at the latest, I'm awake and out of bed).

I felt I should apologise for how I feel. EVERYBODY who is pregnant just wants a healthy baby, or babies. The fact that this pregnancy is planned and now I'm considering this as an option must be upsetting to some who've suffered loss. I have a friend who conceived twins and by 10 weeks one of her twins had vanished. Thankfully her other twin survived and is a healthy little girl, but my friend is very much bereaved and talks about her lost twin all the time. I don't think I could every tell her if I had to go through with this.

I remember you too @mellongoose! How are you? I'm so sorry for the loss of your second daughter. I can only imagine and sympathise with you. This pregnancy was planned, as were my others, but I didn't expect to feel this way which I think was very naieve of me! Thank you for your reply - please keep your fingers crossed for one healthy baby for us x[/quote]
You mustn't apologise for your feelings. You have held and lost three babies to get your girl. That is more than many people will ever have to go through.

Am hoping for one healthy baby for you. If it is twins, you decide then. You decide. Only you can. I would hope that friends and loved ones would support and understand your decision.

If not, please come back here for support x

@bonetiredwithtwins I can't remember if I said earlier but I'm going to have to cancel the NHS scan for next Tuesday as we have no childcare. I've booked an early scan with a private clinic but the soonest we can go is next Friday.

Do I feel in my heart it's twins again? I honestly don't know, but possibly. I go from thinking surely it must be incredibly rare and practically unheard of to conceive twins naturally three times in a row, to thinking it's entirely possible - my symptoms are very similar to both my twin pregnancies so it's very possible. I swing from one to the other and it is, quite literally, driving me mad. Whilst I am hoping and praying for one healthy baby, the thought that there is more than one in there is consuming every ounce of my concentration and energy.

Like you, I am already feeling immense guilt about my thoughts on selective reduction - I mean, how could I terminate half a planned pregnancy of a potentially healthy baby? On the other hand though, I know my track record of carrying twins to term is terrible (non-existant) and the chances of losing one or both of them later on, or neonatally, is very, very high. I cannot put my unborn child(ren), myself or my partner through that again. Like I said, the thought of it is horrible. It's ugly and it's very very upsetting but somehow losing one early on is better than losing them later on or after birth. I can't even believe I just wrote that.

Doctors weren't able to give a reason for the abruption. They said it was just nature - one of those things. They tried to assure me it wasn't something I had done wrong. I still struggle to accept that even now as I'd fallen on my stomach about a week earlier and not got them checked out. I was at the dentist when I believe the abruption happened. I had just severe abdominal pains as the dentist was drilling into one of my teeth that I gasped in pain and and brought my knees to my chest. Again, didn't immediately get checked out but they did say even if the dentist had called 999, there would have been nothing they could have done. Maybe it was the fall, maybe the dental treatment had something to do with it, I will never know. After the twins were delivered they did dozens of blood tests but found nothing.

They never found a cause for the early delivery last time either. They never mentioned a weak cervix although I know it's a possibility. They just said that twins do very often arrive very early, it's a sad fact of nature, and left it at that. I have never been happy with that, and after my scan next Friday I'll contact Tommy's to ask if I can be under their team of consultants.