It's a boy....feel overwhelmed

[WeGoAgain123]

Hello!

As the title states, I'm having a boy!

Before anyone thinks I'm unhappy about this I just want to put you straight that there is no gender disappointment here.

In fact I have 2 daughters, aged 11 and 10 and before the 20 weeks scan me and my partner where quietly hoping to have a boy, partially due to the big age gap and also to experiencing the other side.

Now it's not hypothetical anymore I'm feeling very overwhelmed at thr thought of being 40 and not knowing anything about baby boys!

For those that have had girls and then a boy, what did you find to be the most different? I've been warned about nappy time already 😆

I meant gender!!

Also anyone who quotes that old study with the boy who was turned into a girl and couldn't cope because he was really a boy? Really really poor study where the one turned into a girl was horrifically abused. Something that always gets overlooked.

@4amstarts

Also agree! I'm uniquely qualified to agree too since I raising boy/girl twins 😂

Sorry but you can't extrapolate the behaviour of your two children to the entire human race

Actually, parented in a vacuum is pretty much exactly what DTwins have experienced. They are almost 2. Born just before lockdown. And because of the last two years, they've experienced almost nothing externally or socially.

Sigh. YOU are not in a vacuum. You are parenting with the ideas about gender you've been socialised into. You have almost certainly been behaving towards your twins according to your own ideas about gendered behaviour and expectations, perhaps entirely or largely unconsciously. As has their other parent, if there is one.

Actually, parented in a vacuum is pretty much exactly what DTwins have experienced. They are almost 2. Born just before lockdown. And because of the last two years, they've experienced almost nothing externally or socially.

Well, firstly, it's clear that you do have preconceived ideas about gender which you've exposed them to - but I think you'll say you don't, so let's leave that aside. Do they not ever watch tv, do you not read them books, do you dress them identically? Have you really not taken them out of the house? What about their sibling?

Three. And what is your point with this? My sample of two, and the next posters sample of two (saying the same thing), and the next, and the next... are what makes the general population.

But the actual next poster was me, who didn't say the same thing - I said that I disagreed with you on the basis of my own sample of two, and also on the basis of many other children I know. It clearly isn't the case that everyone's sample of two agrees with yours and so it's some sort of self-evident truth.

Actually, parented in a vacuum is pretty much exactly what DTwins have experienced. They are almost 2. Born just before lockdown. And because of the last two years, they've experienced almost nothing externally or socially

Parented by a parent who ascribes to fundamental differences between boys and girls attributable only to nature. Can you not see the role you play in all of this? Same role I also play btw.

My eldest was born on a farm in the middle of nowhere and I didn't drive, lived self sufficiently and we stayed there until she was nearly 4. She was exposed only to me and her Dad who was away A LOT. Does she fit the gender stereotypes you describe? Not at all. But my sample size of one family simply doesn't work, I'm merely acknowledging that we can all claim things about environment not having an impact but of course it does. The fact that dh worked away and I was a caregiver, the way I probably unconsciously described the horses behind our cottage, the stories I read to her, all of it. That's what I mean by not parented in a vacuum. It's the clothes we wear and they wear, the songs on the radio, the programmes on television, the language we use, phrases we pass down through generations, anxieties we display, conversations they overhear and on and on and on and on. No vacuum.

Well, firstly, it's clear that you do have preconceived ideas about gender which you've exposed them to - but I think you'll say you don't, so let's leave that aside.

What do my preconceived ideas matter, if the boy just inherently clonks his sister? I've subconsciously gifted this to him? Or is that just what my boy (and pp boys) are inherently like. He hasn't got it from the TV. He hasn't got it from me. Or dad. He just does.

I have, by age two, conditioned only her somehow to sit and concentrate, but I didn't bother with him because I love having to still chase the other one around. Or she just inherently does this, and he doesn't?

Do they not ever watch tv

Yeah, mainly despicable me, in which there are no little boys.

do you not read them books

Only recently. One about "that's not my dinosaur" and another about trains and birds. We don't read a lot. We play with a lot of Duplo and "building" things.

do you dress them identically?

Nope. They both wear tops and trousers because it's easy. Today, she's in grey and yellow, he's in orange and black.

Have you really not taken them out of the house?

Nope. Everything's been closed or the rubbish "covid" version of open. Book, come along, get out before the next people arrive so we can sanitise. They go to the supermarket with me, and for walks at the forest. Not much else. Will do a few more things in Dec providing no more restrictions come in.

What about their sibling?

Much older. Leaves for school before they get up. Home around an hour before they go to bed.

Having boy/girl twins doesn’t give you any greater insight into the innateness or otherwise of gendered behaviour. If it did we as a species would have boxed off a lot of questions that remain unanswered. My two year old girl is going through a hitting phase, obviously without having been taught to hit by anyone; don’t lots of two year olds? It’s not because of their sex.

@TheBestWhootersInWhoville

Boys in the early years are much less hardy than girls- more likely to be sick, fail to thrive etc, slower to pick up skills

This is the exact opposite of every boy and girl I know.

It’s one of the only comments though that is factual rather than anecdotal…

@royco @TheBestWhootersInWhoville

I'm quite interested in gender differences; this is taken from 'Pink Brain, Blue Brain'.

It's absolutely hilarious to me that women raising boy/girl twins FIRMLY believing in sexist stereotypes say they raised their twins exactly the same as each other. Bull..........shit.

Let's have a list. Were their clothes exactly the same? How about names? Did little girl Finn have a brother named Poppy? Any comments about strength, looks or kindness early? Did anyone wear a dress in the first couple of years? Was it the boy? Any grandparents send blue/pink crap? In the same cot with neutral bedding or was one different?

And then environmental stuff. When you saw a picture of a scary dinosaur in a book did you say, "what's she doing?" Ditto a sweet little fawn, "what's he doing?" Are half the adventure books on your shelves with girls? Did they watch literally any TV? One of the MANY kids' programs with 'girl' as a character type rather than many girls?

No vacuum is possible.

@grace1991

Boys seem to be a hell of a lot more stroppy and whingey I think in the first year or so. That's the only difference I've noticed !!!

My first born - DS - now a 6 year old was a quiet, calm little one, sitting and playing with his age-appropriate baby toys, and making full use of all manner of baby-gyms and Jumperoos and rattles and now is a quiet, clever, focused, calm little boy.

So - imagine our shock when -

Our 2nd born - DD - was born straight into the pandemic - and has grown to be the most opinionated, force-of-nature, shouty, non-calm toddler we have seen. No jumperoos and jungle gyms satisfy her - she must bash trucks down the stairs, loudly demand 3rd and 4th helpings of food, and sit on her brother if he doesn't give her his robot dragon.

Sometimes after toddler DD goes to bed, I just sit with DS and have some cuddles on the sofa, in quiet.

My DD's tantrums are epic in comparison to my mild mannered DS. Although I'd say my DS isn't a typical whirlwind boy, he's a watch and wait type. My DD is charge in type. So maybe DS is a typical girl and DD a typical boy 😂

I would say my DS has been much slower on fine motor skills like writing, drawing and fiddly stuff, even things like catching a ball . Both walked around same time, but some of it is affected by DD being the second child, so she has someone to copy.

I think it's normal to feel apprehensive about a new baby, whatever the sex.

@MiddleParking

Having boy/girl twins doesn’t give you any greater insight into the innateness or otherwise of gendered behaviour. If it did we as a species would have boxed off a lot of questions that remain unanswered. My two year old girl is going through a hitting phase, obviously without having been taught to hit by anyone; don’t lots of two year olds? It’s not because of their sex.

Yes they do.

Girl twin will sometimes hit back. Rarely, but it happens. Just like my boy can on the rare occasion sit still and not rush around like a march hare.

It's not a case of these behaviours are never seen in the other sex. But as a direct comparison, the boy(s) do this more and the girls do that more.

And you're quite right. Boy twin hits because he's two. Girl twin does her oscar style tantrums because she's two. He (and typically boys) hit more and she (and typically girls) do more of the dramatics. At age 2. Both behaviours will pass.
(They will, they will, where's the gin )

Molly, I'd be interested in the answers to MrsTP's questions. I applaud you if you've managed it but you'd be the first woman I've ever met who's shielded her child from the universal, endemic gendered society in which we live. Especially remarkable if you've managed it whilst maintaining a belief in the fundamental, inherent differences in behaviours caused by sex.

It's not a case of these behaviours are never seen in the other sex. But as a direct comparison, the boy(s) do this more and the girls do that more.

No one is saying that your sons and daughter don’t largely behave in gendered ways. They’re saying that you can’t extrapolate that therefore gendered behaviours are innate.

@MrsTerryPratchett

It's absolutely hilarious to me that women raising boy/girl twins FIRMLY believing in sexist stereotypes say they raised their twins exactly the same as each other. Bull..........shit.

Let's have a list. Were their clothes exactly the same? How about names? Did little girl Finn have a brother named Poppy? Any comments about strength, looks or kindness early? Did anyone wear a dress in the first couple of years? Was it the boy? Any grandparents send blue/pink crap? In the same cot with neutral bedding or was one different?

And then environmental stuff. When you saw a picture of a scary dinosaur in a book did you say, "what's she doing?" Ditto a sweet little fawn, "what's he doing?" Are half the adventure books on your shelves with girls? Did they watch literally any TV? One of the MANY kids' programs with 'girl' as a character type rather than many girls?

No vacuum is possible.

@MrsTerryPratchett

You say you can apply all behaviours to your DD. As I said, you can apply most of the behaviours existing at some degree to any child. The point is, the level and frequency are not the same in boys and girls. I asked if you actually had a son in order to have witnessed the difference you are so adamant there isn't?

Are their clothes the same? Mainly. Certainly as they were little as it was white babygrows for months. Now it's long sleeve tops and trousers because they launder better. Both wear a lot of grey and green. Only because they both look lovely in those colours. If she suited blue, or pink, or black more, that's what she'd wear. His latest set of PJs are red and blue. Hers are white and blue. And anything with minions on it. Their Christmas PJ's are identical. Will DD have a dress for Christmas Day? Maybe. Must be why she doesn't hit her brother.

And no, my daughter isn't called Steve and my son Sarah. What a silly point. The fact one responds to "Fred" and the other "Jane" has got nothing to do with the ability to sit still. And actually they are rarely called their names, 99% of the time one's referred to (similar to) Beevle, and the other (similar to) Woozle which are meaningless nicknames that elder DS gave them at about 3 days old and they've stuck. Care to tell me which is which?

We don't have blue and pink "crap." We have minion themed crap. Lockdown babies meant very little in the way of family gifts. We got a lot of little white company, which is, well, white. Not by asking, that's just what we got. We definitely got a pink toy and a blue toy from friends overseas though. Must be why she can sit still.

Books, the dinosaurs aren't scary. "That's not my dinosaur, his tail is too shiny". I think it's a him all the way through. The trains and birds book, nothing is a he or she, it's about counting. We don't have shelves of adventure books they're not yet two. We have a lot of building blocks, and lots of play equipment outdoors. Wheelybugs. A ladybird and a mouse. Again, tell me who's is who's? As we're so obviously stereotyping that it's the reason for their behavioural differences.

TV. As I said. Despicable Me. Times a thousand. Three girls. One man. Lots of little yellow things. They also watch The Snail and the Whale all the time.

I mean, if you can point out where the glaring stereotypes are being forced upon them, as opposed to this is just how they naturally behave in direct comparison, due to being boys/girls...

I have 2 girls and 3 boys and can honestly say each child only differentiate due to having different personalities, so if you’re going to feel overwhelmed do so because you are having a baby again after a 10 year break! Good luck.

By the way, none of this has been a concerted effort. I didn't set out thinking "I must never put her in pink, or give him a car to play with, in case they become stereotypical boys/girls"

But now you've made me sit and think about it, and given the isolating circumstances that have governed their short 22mth lives, I can see that they massively haven't been exposed to stereotyping, and through nothing other than that's the way the cookie crumbled, have ended up in gender neutral clothes (mainly so I can mix and match if I'm behind on laundry).

Their shared room is grey. The whole thing, different shades of grey. Duvets, pale green, the pair of them. She has a purple dragon she sleeps with, and he has a white and orange sheep thing.

I'm more convinced than ever after thinking about it that these are just inherent natural traits. And I don't understand the kicking and screaming at acknowledging this. Boys and girls have different genetic make up, hormones (is it hormones, or some other chemicals?) that exaggerate certain behaviours. Why on earth the refusal to accept a child with a higher balance of chemical xyz, has stronger traits caused by chemical xyz?

Molly, I know you claim to understand what we are saying but you aren't really.

You believe certain things about boys Vs girls. You have a bias. It will unconsciously affect you. You can list as many examples of conscious decisions as you like but you will not undo your unconscious biases.

The language we use with a newborn, the ways we handle them, the comforting noises we make, the ways we interpret and ascribe meaning from behaviours, it's all intrinsically and irrevocably linked to the world we live in and the gendered dichotomy we see everywhere.

At 2, with malleable brains and a huge propensity to shape their behaviours to the moulds we offer or rail against them, you are categorically making statements about who they are. Absolute statements about the way their personalities tend.

@sjxoxo

I’m also pregnant with a boy, my first! My DH is a huge person and I was hoping for a a girl so not to risk a huge baby & also only boys in our family, but alas he’s on his way! Not small either, 2.6kg at 33+4 🤣 the nappy changing thing yes (I have several brothers) but I think that’s the only difference! Oh and be prepared to make enough food to feed a zoo during teen years! Congratulations xo

You should have had a large girl, might of there's a next. The genes that code for height etc aren't sex linked.

*could

Again. Disagreeing with you, doesn't make me incapable of reading what you are writing. Please don't patronise.

I think what is being said is nonsense. To be perfectly clear, I understand exactly. I disagree entirely.

There's a reason people say "typical boy/girl". Because the behaviour is predominant in that sex. And why there's such a refusal to accept it's anything to do with clearly different genetics, it's because the girl got a doll, so you've created that behaviour, it wouldn't exist otherwise, is just daft.

I have twins too and they're def different. Born Dec19 so pretty much lockdown babies. No groups until 18 months.

Literally from birth T1 was the scream needy one. T2 was chilled. T1 is obsessed with cars and wheels and banging. T2 is more likely to be In a quiet corner with a book. T1 more affectionate, will come if I cry. T2 it's on their terms and if I cry they just stare at me. T2 is more likely to do something they shouldn't and T1 follow, is T1 starts it T2 just stares like "haha, you're gonna get in trouble!!. T2 sleeps better and needs more sleep and eats better than T1. Those differences are definitely inbuilt
Which is fascinating cos they have the same Chromosomes!!!

@royco I have no source but I know when DS was born prem and poorly that one of the biggest factors against him was being a boy. More girls than boys survive both the conditions he has (one genetic, one congenital defect) and even just as a "prem" with no other issues, it's better to be a girl. And not born in winter.
Made conceiving identical twin boys due in winter really relaxing 😂😂 they're perfectly average and everything is where the text book says it should be lol

@MollysDolly

Again. Disagreeing with you, doesn't make me incapable of reading what you are writing. Please don't patronise.

I think what is being said is nonsense. To be perfectly clear, I understand exactly. I disagree entirely.

There's a reason people say "typical boy/girl". Because the behaviour is predominant in that sex. And why there's such a refusal to accept it's anything to do with clearly different genetics, it's because the girl got a doll, so you've created that behaviour, it wouldn't exist otherwise, is just daft.

It’s because there aren’t actually massive differences pre puberty between boys and girls from a biological perspective- there are indeed some but temperament is down to the child, not the sex. Although boys are exposed to more testosterone in the antenatal period, after that the levels between boys and girls are similar. There are very small differences that become large differences because of the environment they are exposed to. Boys generally develop gross motor skills faster as girls tend to be ‘protected’ more whilst parents are more physical with boys, girls tend to develop caring play as they are praised for doing so… It’s the neuroplasticity of the brain- there is no reason a girl pre puberty shouldn’t be as strong, fast, or physically skilled as a boy the same size; however generally they won’t have developed their motor and visuospatial skills to the same extent as gendered girls play doesn’t work on these.