The occasional small glass of wine - will you or won't you?

[GinnyBee]

I just wondered what the current attitudes are towards the occasional small glass. I know the NHS recommendation is to avoid it completely, and I've read Expecting Better as well, so now I'm wondering what other women are doing. Will you have a small toast at Christmas or a little sip in front of the fire on a cold night, or stick to soft drinks?

Not recognising there is a difference between the occasional tiny glass of wine and the amount of alcohol needed to cause FAS is pure hysteria. I can’t believe people can come on here with a straight face and say that anyone who doesn’t avoid alcohol completely in pregnancy MUST have a problem with it. Talk about hyperbole.

I also have history of miscarriages and possibly opposite to most people it has made me a little bit more relaxed about all the recommendations this time. I followed all the rules rigidly with my last two pregnancies and miscarried anyway, so now after spending the past year either being pregnant or recovering from not being pregnant anymore I feel life has been miserable enough, so I've started looking more into the science behind the recommendations and whether a strict ban is really necessary or is it a case of moderation and minimising risk so I could still enjoy some things.

I'm exactly the same @GinnyBee. I've had four losses now and one successful pregnancy- some I had a (single) beer or glass of wine, some I drank moderate levels of caffeinated coffee, some I went off everything as I found out. There's no rhyme or reason to what's happened to me- in fact with DD I was probably the most relaxed and did have (maybe three or four throughout the whole pregnancy) a beer or glass of wine, the odd rare steak, blue cheese, etc.

I had the odd glass when pg after the first few months.

Anecdata I know, but my DC have turned out fine - fit, happy, and intelligent adults.

As a pp says, the hysteria is unnecessary.

It's just another example of competitive motherhood AFAIC.

This thread comes up regularly and always always always follows exactly the same script, right down to the ‘maybe you nees to examine your relationship with alcohol’ comments. You can just do an advanced search and read them all.

You do have to remember that MN is not the place to come if you want to canvass opinions that reflect the real world. There is a greater proportion of women here with complicated pregnancies / previous losses / pretty severe anxiety than in RL; women sailing through textbook pregnancies don’t need online support in the same numbers. Therefore the responses are always going to skew towards more cautious choices.

FWIW my favourite no or very low-alcohol drinks are tonic with bitters, tonic with a drop of gin rubbed around the rim, or if you’re comfortable with a very small amount of alcohol then a 25ml measure of Aperol contains about 0.4 of a unit and is nice with tonic and a wedge of orange.

nofas.org/emily_oster/

I think Expecting Better has some good stuff, but I wouldn't be deciding whether or not to drink alcohol based off it.

@BlairWaldorfLovesShopping
I can’t believe people can come on here with a straight face and say that anyone who doesn’t avoid alcohol completely in pregnancy MUST have a problem with it.
And I can’t believe that there are women on here that are so selfish that they can’t manage with drinking alcohol for 9 months. Really responsible parents in the making …… not

I use to enjoy going out, nice cocktails, wine in nice restaurants etc so no way teetotal, but didn't touch a drop while pregnant. Tried a 0% bet and couldn't finish it, there was something in my brain trekking my it was wrong even though I knew it didn't contain alcohol or tasted like it. I don't value alcohol enough that the odd small glass or a sip of champagne felt like a hardship to go without. I didn't drink while BF either and to be honest it's been a good thing. I go weeks/months at a time now workout drinking anything because I just don't fancy it and I have no habits around it anymore.

People saying it's not worth the risk seem to me to lack an understanding of risk and data. It's not that women who drink a glass of wine once every so often see risk and decide it's worth it, it's that there is no evidence that this level of drinking causes any risk. The NHS guidance is based on a paper by the Chief Medical Officer which basically states this but concludes that messaging of no safe drinking level is easier for women to understand. The levels to which the NHS treats pregnant women like idiots unable to understand any level to nuance really frustrates me. Analysing data and making informed choices doesn't sound to me like the makings of an irresponsible parent, quite the opposite.

@GingerKombucha

People saying it's not worth the risk seem to me to lack an understanding of risk and data. It's not that women who drink a glass of wine once every so often see risk and decide it's worth it, it's that there is no evidence that this level of drinking causes any risk. The NHS guidance is based on a paper by the Chief Medical Officer which basically states this but concludes that messaging of no safe drinking level is easier for women to understand. The levels to which the NHS treats pregnant women like idiots unable to understand any level to nuance really frustrates me. Analysing data and making informed choices doesn't sound to me like the makings of an irresponsible parent, quite the opposite.

Absolutely @GingerKombucha

Unfortunately there are some prime examples on this thread of people who simply can't (or won't) understand nuance, critical thinking, or what risk actually means!

These threads always end up being condescending. With the drinkers saying that the non drinkers lack critical thinking skills, and the non drinkers saying the drinkers have a drink problem.

I don't drink in pregnancy, it's not worth the guilt or worry (whether it's a risk or not). My own tiny sample of two births is that 50% is alive, and the other 50% is in a box of ashes because of a birth defect. I never want to experience that again, so do everything to avoid it.

I didn’t have any alcohol during my three pregnancies, I would have worried to much about what damage it may do to my babies.

@BlairWaldorfLovesShopping

I agree with you - in 9 months I had two tiny glasses of wine - both doctor and midwife said it was fine - I do not have a problem with alcohol. But tiny teenie amounts I think are fine - but I can absolutely get the point that with a dreadful pregnancy or birth it may make you feel guilty.

Foetal Alcohol Syndrome is very different from having a tiny glass of wine after 2nd trimester. ( me my experience ) just 2 in 9 months. ) When I was first pregnant like others I just could not face it - it made me nauseous. But equally I did have soft cheese once - apparently this was tantamount to murder at the time.

I do know that there will be those who say - OK for you - your baby was fine . But I think two tiny glasses of wine and a teensy bit of camembert wasn't going to hurt my child when into 3rd trimester & scans etc said baby seemed to be fine.

My MIL lost DH's elder sister - still born - she (MIL ) was as cautious as cautious could be - sometimes there are other factors. - I think I was cautious. But for those who do not even want to take the tiniest risk - I understand that. I think two quarter ( little glasses not what they give you pubs nowadays ) glasses of wine a spread of camembert over a piece of bread wasn't particularly risky when in the latter stages - could I have not done it - yes but baby was growing well and scans & check ups were good. & when I say a small glass of wine I mean about 3 sips worth.
@GingerKombucha - Took the decision - had asked midwife and doctor & they said - Ach - you're fine. There is risk and risk & yes I agree that saying have nothing of these things is an easier message, BUT for those who are very risk averse and have had terrible experiences I get why the zero thing would be their way to go. I ( with advice ) thought the risk was so minimal as not to be worth talking about. I wasn't drinking a bottle of gin . But everyone should make their own choice & most responsible parents would not do something they considered dangerous.

BlairWaldorf - all the best - sounds you might have the best Christmas present ever

Yes, I see there are two ways to interpret the data. Some will decide that there isn't enough evidence that it's safe, and others will decide that there isn't evidence that it's harmful. Both are valid interpretations, and I'm not going to judge anyone for their own choice. But I don't like the suggestions that having one glass of wine means you're a bad person and you shouldn't have kids at all, nor do I agree that those who decide on total abstinence lack critical thinking.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200925113422.htm

A new study finds any alcohol use during pregnancy, even low levels, is associated with subtle, yet significant behavioural and psychological effects in children including anxiety, depression and poor attention.

It's a 2020 study so very recent.

That study refers specifically to the first 6-7 weeks of pregnancy, and doesn't appear to look at the second and third trimesters.