Fathers at scans and generally being treated as unimportant

[Dizzysheep]

Hi all I was just wondering what trusts you are in and what scans are your partners allowed too?

We’ve been having fertility treatment finally have a bfp which means we have an 8 week viability scan but he’s not allowed in with me.

I think two things I want him to be there as I feel he has a right to listen to the babies heart beat for the first time and this should be something we should hear together for the first time. Also, due to the fertility treatment it’s an anxious time for him too and if it does happen to be a miscarriage he should be there.

I know others have been in this situation but I feel that this restriction is now one where it is beginning to breach a fathers human rights.

I agree with you OP. Many threads on mumsnet are about fathers not doing enough parenting. Fathers being fully invested in the health of the baby from the start and being treated as a jointly responsible parent is surely something we should encourage as far as possible. My trust allow fathers into scans if they've had a negative LFT test.

@Ajl46

I agree with you OP. Many threads on mumsnet are about fathers not doing enough parenting. Fathers being fully invested in the health of the baby from the start and being treated as a jointly responsible parent is surely something we should encourage as far as possible. My trust allow fathers into scans if they've had a negative LFT test.

They can do the parenting when the baby arrives. Before then, their input is minimal.

Fathers are allowed @ all scans/ appointments in my trust. Not sure about midwife as it says maximum 2 people in the room and I like attending by myself tbh

A trust has to think about and balance the risks for you and it's staff. Every unnecessary attendance at hospital increases the risk to both staff and patients at a time when hospitals are still under so much pressure. If the staff get Covid it just means services and appointments are impacted for other patients.

I kinda get it is nice if he's there, but human rights, really?! It's a medical appointment for your body. As it's only one allowed for the medical appointment send him for your next one. You won't get the info you need on you or your pregnancy but his rights are so important at this stage!

Aww surely he should be allowed in for that 😔 in my hospital in scotland you’re allowed partners for all scans. I just had the standard 12, 20 week etc but he was allowed in to all despite the visiting restrictions being stricter than this

@MrsTerryPratchett

Have people seen the statistics of unvaccinated pregnant women and covid? Caution is a good idea. He is neither the patient, nor attached to the patient.

There are private scans for the other stuff.

But, most of time, LIVES WITH the mother, wears a mask, does a test and is vaccinated. It makes no sense!!!

How about paying for a private scan? That’s what we will probably do, if our next transfer works. I know it’s hard, especially when you have had a more challenging and hard road to get here than most

@thecapitalsunited yeah it’s a bit of a race to the bottom which is depressing

@MindyStClaire

I've been pondering this thread over dinner and bedtime. It's not the first of its type I've been on.

I'm going to express this badly, but I hope my general point comes across. It's not meant meanly,I promise, like I said I had a baby last year so I get it.

I think what annoys me on these threads is that it's never "I think hospital patients should be allowed have support at vital appointments", but "my husband should be allowed at my scan". There's rarely an understanding that a maternity unit is just one part of a much bigger hospital and trust. I think it's because as a whole pregnant women are a very healthy cohort and are often having their first or most significant engagement with the NHS and so have slightly unrealistic expectations. I don't like the word precious, it's meaner than what I mean here but I'm struggling for the right word. Naive maybe?

I think you're right, in the general sense, and this time last year, I would have completely agreed with you. NHS is underfunded and on its arse, it's vitally important to keep people, especially ones with compromised immune systems, safe.

I was pregnant last year and attended all my appointments alone, second baby, so no big deal. It was a shame he wasn't allowed to the scans but not the end of the world. Until my anomaly scan, and it was horrific, and then it was the end of the world and I was alone. And then I had to make my way home and tell my DH that our baby son was incredibly ill and was likely going to die. Because I didn't want to tell him over the phone. And having to walk through the door to our home and then relay all that dreadful information through the mental white noise.

I have since had a MC a, MMC and been diagnosed with PTSD. So for me personally, extreme example obviously, but I don't think that it's too big of an ask to have a support person for scans.

But I do understand (I think) what you mean about it being the first real experience of NHS care for a lot of women and that expectations may often, not be met.

But how many pregnant women are now shielding in general? The vast majority of people including pregnant women and hospital staff are living a pretty much normal day to day life where they are in frequent contact with others. So why would they need protection when coming to a hospital appointment? For the very few immunocompromised pregnant women who can't have the vaccine alternative provision could be made - e.g. separate room or time slot or them being given PPE which protects them etc. This would offer much better protection rom covid than peoples' partners not being at a scan. But it has always been the case that some pregnant women are at high risk from infectious diseases - flu and chicken pox are quite dangerous to pregnant women, for example - even more so if they are already immunocompromised. If it is still justified to restrict maternity care due to covid, it will always be justified.

Scans to me is the tip of the ice berg. If you can justify not having partners at scans for safety reasons, then you can justify them not being at the birth or part of it and not being able to visit the ward and then justify no visiting at neonatal units because "the baby is the patient" and maybe masks while women are in labour like other countries have done. So women get shit care which suits only those who are most terrified of covid and can't complain because it's "for your own protection". It's certainly not protection which I want for me or my baby.

I'm truly sorry for your loss @HeyFloof, what a horrific thing to go through, especially finding out alone. I hope your DH was allowed to your subsequent appointments?

I think some hospitals recommended that partners waited outside so they could be called in in the event of bad news. I guess that's probably the best compromise between patient support and safety in waiting rooms etc.

I think what gets my back up is that I see a lot on social media etc about partners at pregnancy scans - but why get so specific? People had horrific experiences all over the health service and to just focus on one small section of it seems like a weird kind of privilege, a cluelessness of the other worlds being turned upside down all over the building.

I don't know what the answer is - I remember the packed waiting rooms from my first pregnancy, in the pandemic there was always a seat, and it was always 2m from the nearest other seat. I was pretty relaxed about covid but wouldn't have felt at all comfortable in the packed waiting rooms of the before times. And I think I would have felt that even more now with the focus on the risk to pregnant women (even though I absolutely would have been vaccinated).

It's not easy to balance the needs of the majority of patients' safety with the (fortunately few) cases who really will need some support - especially when in most cases it won't be known in advance who will be the poor ones to get bad news. I don't think it's possible to square that circle, I don't think there is an answer. But I do think the focus on maternity services can get a little precious (for want of a better word).

But, most of time, LIVES WITH the mother, wears a mask, does a test and is vaccinated. It makes no sense!!!

I work in housing, which is very similar to health in that the 'norm' isn't really. He frequently doesn't live with the mother, wears a mask really poorly if at all, and may not be vaccinated.

I had to tell someone today three times to actually wear their mask. Sigh and a FFS from them every time. Plus a 'I read online that covid doesn't exist'. You'd be astounded who walks in to services. And the level of thinking no rule applies to them. With passive resistance to any measures from many.

I'm more worried about the labour than the scans,no entry until 4cm still in Northern Ireland

That was the case for my MMC @mindystclaire well not exactly, he had to sit outside and then I could call him in to be with me for the actual scan. But that was fine, I could deal with that. I have a scan next week and hopefully he will be allowed in with me.

When I delivered ds2 (November lockdown) we were incredibly fortunate that not only were we allowed to be there together from start to finish, but that my DM was allowed to be there too. Obviously it's different when you know the baby is going to pass shortly after birth but it genuinely felt like special treatment that I was allowed two birth partners and felt bad about it, knowing that women on the other side of the corridor were only allowed one.

I understand what you mean, and I do think that there is sometimes an expectation from pregnant women that their appointment be magical or super accommodating. I think easy access to private scans has created a bit of a, void, perhaps, whereby the "fluff" is what people expect. When in fact it's a routine (for the staff) medical appointment.

I think it's awful that people in hospital have been denied access to visitors for so long. There is good evidence that having visitors improves patient outcomes. There is also real risk to some people in being in hospital on their own and having no one to advocate for them. There are some horrendous stories of people with a terminal diagnosis being left alone in hospital for weeks with no visitors. I think any infection control benefit from these measures is likely to be vastly outweighed by these negative affects. It certainly wouldn't be my choice to die alone in hospital in order to be protected from covid and I wouldn't want that inflicted on anyone.

But I'm not personally affected by this and I don't know very much about it beyond what you read in the news so I'm not the right person to speak about it.

I do have personal experience of having a baby during lockdown and am now pregnant again. I think on a pregnancy forum on mumsnet people should be allowed to speak about negative experiences of maternity care without being told that their experience doesn't matter because others have it worse. That isn't minimising other patient's experiences or arguing for special treatment for maternity. It just reflects people's personal experience. If, pre-covid, someone talked about how traumatised they were by their birth, no one would be popping up to say that they should get over it because some people receive negligent cancer treatment.

Have you seen the stats on pregnant women and Covid? The percentage of ICU patients that are in fact pregnant women?

I appreciate it’s rubbish to not have him there and I do feel for you both but someone else not dying after being placed at double the risk is far far more important.

@thecapitalsunited

If the NHS is that badly pushed why are the current guidelines to allow fathers to all antenatal appointments? The guidance specifically recognises that expectant mothers need support. Christ every thread on here where people want a bare fucking minimum of decent care is met by ‘well I had to do it without so why can’t you’ as if we should never strive to improve maternity care.

Agree with all of this.

I'm in Chelmsford (mid essex trust) and partner was allowed to all scans (my baby is now 5 weeks old)

YABU.

A high proportion of those in hospital at the moment with covid, are pregnant mums. The hospital is trying to keep you and your baby safe as well as all the other mums to be.

It's disappointing but you need to let them do their job without making a fuss.

I'm a lawyer with reasonably human rights experience, I would say you'd face an uphill battle. You could possibly argue it's a breach of the right to family life but tricky. However, that doesn't mean it isn't really shitty and unfair for both of you. I've had bleeding throughout my first and second trimester of an IVF pregnancy and have spent a lot of time alone in the EPU. I've seen men been sent away when their partner has come in in the process of miscarrying. I understand covid rules but I think there needs to be more compassion and kindness and the needs of both parents to be there during the major highs and lows of pregnancy should be better recognised. Covid shouldn't be used by the NHS as an excuse for poorer care or support, changes such as lateral flow tests, checking fathers are vaccinated, masks etc would be much more proportionate.