To think that some NHS midwives are taking advantage of covid 19

[NinaNeedsToGo]

I actually replied with my rant below to another OP but I decided to start a new topic with my post here.

Sorry ladies but I think what we're going through regarding our antenatal care is a disgrace to put it mildly. More and more post are recently appearing on MN where women are rightly concerned that they are not seen by MWs during second trimester at all. It might be just a BP and dipstick appointment that they are missing but most of us would agree that these seemingly minor test are vital for mother and baby's health. They detect quite common problems such as pre-eclampsia or GD and are a bare minimum we receive through NHS.

I have 3 friends working in NHS hospitals (London and Midlands). From what I can hear from them, and we speak weekly, after an initial surge in covid cases at the end of March up until mid April, it's all gone pretty quiet. All planned treatments or OPs have been postponed or cancelled to create more capacity. It's gone to the point where HCW friends seem to be actually bored on their wards. For example, 24 bed capacity on my friend's ward and just 5 patients, and they have not been even nearing a full capacity at any point of this pandemic. All three of my friends work on virtual wards which basically means that they can be assigned to any ward during their shifts. And they were. Surprisingly, or rather shockingly, one of them had actually worked for a week with covid infected patients and a week later on maternity ward (sic!).

With high staffing levels (surprise surprise high for a number of patients they currently have), bank staff hours were actually ceased because of lack of demand.

I am actually pretty angry with how NHS is handling this crisis because due to the pandemic craze (not that I minimise its severity) we seem to have large swathes of population left to their own fate without vital cancer/ maternity/ diabetic etc treatments/care.

Our maternity care shouldn't be affected because midwives are not really involved in covid cases. What's more, many trusts cancelled some vital services such as GTT at 28 weeks ( I was informed that they would test me for GD from blood only), home births, 16 weeks app,and I heard of 24week apps also being cancelled. Postnatal wards are doing whatever in their power to discharge women asap so that midwives and HCW don't have to run between beds while partners are kept away. So at least in theory, midwives should have it easier or at least the same as pre covid.

It took my midwife an extra minute spent on disinfecting my chair and the desk for me when I had my booking appointment. She barely answered my questions and her responses were short and vague. I actually found that a box in my maternity notes was ticked where she didn't actually mention healthy eating to me at all during the app.

What it is then that leads to such an appalling state of care? Aren't we actually quietly allowing this state of affairs to continue by sitting quiet because in our minds all NHS staff is bravely combating covid19 which I know first hand is not true?

Rant over. Waiting for your points of view

@ChipsAreLife I don't think YABU

In my trust at least, if they need to see you, they absolutely will. I'm a very high risk pregnancy and I've had an early scan for bleeding, my 12 week scan personally arranged for as early as possible and a 16 and 18 week scan booked in already. Consultants, Covid or not, do not want deaths or poor maternal outcomes on their hands and will see you if you need to be seen. I usually attend MAU three times a week towards the end of pregnancy for BP monitoring and dipsticks and they're providing these for me to do at home instead. If they didn't and I was concerned I would buy one myself. To say midwives are taking advantage is pretty disgusting.

Personally I do not have a problem with phone appointments.

I'm high risk for pre eclampsia and hypertension as I developed hypertension in last pregnancy. I have seen a consultant in person and a midwife at booking plus my scans.

My 16 week appointment was over the phone, which is fine. I asked questions, she answered them the same as if I was sat in her clinic.

They suggested I buy a blood pressure monitor and urine tests as I am concerned about my blood pressure going up - the have no concerns currently. They explained when to use it, how best to use it and what to look for. They told me who to ring if it hits a certain number. They stressed that I do not do it all the time just once a month or so.

The midwives will have a huge caseload and id rather do non essential appointments over the phone than have to sit with the midwife who has sat with goodness knows how many other people.

I have scans booked in from 33 weeks, the midwife will see me at 28 weeks which is exactly the same as pre covid for 2nd time mothers. I have numbers to ring if I have concerns.

I think it is extremely unfair to say they are using this as an excuse. An excuse for what? They're still delivering babies in hospitals, probably mums that are covid positive and putting themselves at risk.

I think your post is quite harsh

I would also be careful buying anything medical off amazon! This is exactly why we haven’t been advised to buy our own. Misinterpretation of results or “fake” tests will only increase their workload.

I had a baby 3 weeks ago and had been worried about ante natal / post natal care (probably from reading too many threads on here!) In terms of ante natal, I had a consultant appointment move to phone but my growth scan and midwife appointments happened as planned. I also went in for reduced movements and was monitored and scanned. In terms of the birth, I had to go in alone whilst DH waited in the car but once they had determined I was in active labour he was allowed in and was with me throughout the birth and for a few hours afterwards. I stayed on the ward for a couple of nights and he was able to visit although only for a few hours a day. I definitely didn't feel like they were eager to discharge me, I had lots of help to get feeding established and could have stayed an extra night if I had wanted. In terms of post natal, the first midwife appointment was by phone although they would have seen me if needed. After that I had several appointments in person so baby could be weighed and they could check me and help with feeding, plus lots of breastfeeding support via phone and video call. The only issue we've had was that we had to pay privately for a tongue tie division as that isn't currently happening on the NHS here. Overall the midwife support has been fantastic, they have been really understanding of how difficult things are for new mums at the moment and I think they are doing a great job. Appreciate it varies by trust but I couldn't fault the support I've had.

I think there are a couple of things we can all agree on.

I - whether you are a first time mum or a going for number 4. Whether you are high risk or low risk. Pregnancy is at best scary and at worst fucking terrifying.

2 - giving birth during a literal pandemic (not a craze) the likes we haven't comparably seen ever is undeniably TERRIFYING and nothing we ever dreamed would happen to us

3 - Antenatal care standards have changed

All of this makes us scared and angry and frustrated. We are allowed to make it about ourselves as it IS about ourselves. I am pissed my husband can't hold my hand at scans and tests! I'm frustrated my MW apps aren't the same. I'm worried that I don't even know my consultants name let alone my delivery procedure and I'm theoretically going to go into labour at any minute.

We are allowed to be angry that we aren't getting what thousands and thousands of mothers have gotten, and likely took for granted, before all this.

But to say this is the collective fault of MWs, or that incompetence is regularly high is just not true and so insulting I actually don't even have the words.

I work for a medical regulator and you have no idea what its like on the other side right now for MWs, doctors and HCPs alike.

You want to be mad be mad, but be mad at the right people. The government and the ministers and the MPs who have shattered our NHS and let everyone down and didn't listen or act or put procedures in place in time.

I cannot emphasise this enough. A MIDWIFE DOESNT MAKE THE RULES. If they were rude or missed something or made a mistake I'm sorry about that and feel free to make a complaint if you are so inclined. BUT everything from partners, to blood tests to home births to scans is a TRUST policy decided and enacted by a medical director and/or executive board.

Nothing anyone has mentioned is the specific or direct felt of midwives

I have had exceptional midwifery care. Actually, despite coronavirus, it's been LOADS better than I was expecting. Thank you, wonderful midwives xx

I feel really abandoned as a first time mum. I saw a midwife face-to-face for my booking in appt at 8 weeks (pre-lockdown - these are now also being carried out on the phone) and will not see one again until 28 weeks 😔 I have so many questions and minor concerns that seem too trivial for the 24 hour emergency triage number I've been given, but are things I would definitely have brought up had I been seeing midwives. My 16 week telephone appointment lasted 4 minutes and the midwife could not wait to get off the phone. All antenatal classes have been cancelled and have been replaced with two 15 minute videos, one about birth and one about caring for your baby. I do know there's a pandemic on but I feel completely lost, like I'm doing this entirely alone, and I definitely feel like problems with me or the baby could be missed.

@ChipsAreLife it's totally understandable to be worried....I am too and the sooner maternity services are running normally again, the better. I have never disagreed that it's not disappointing and worrying, i said i understand that sacrifices have to made and some of our 'non-essential' appointments are one of the temporary sacrifices.
Also, it's wrong that your midwife lied to you. No excuse for that.

@CouscousEvaporator saying 'it's not all about me' is not about being passive. It's about having an understanding of the bigger picture. I'm a FTM and high risk and am certainly not being passive. I am just being more alert now to symptoms and issues myseif rather than just waiting for the next routine appointment. I am testing my urine at home and looking to order a blood sugar tester too. It's not ideal but it is what it is.

Midwives in Somerset are going above and beyond in difficult circumstances with appointments happening differently but not cancelled. Really sorry to hear your experience is different but it’s unfair to say this relates to all midwives.

The care we received from the midwives in hospital was fantastic. They never even mentioned the virus and made me feel completely safe and looked after. The community midwives were a different story unfortunately. They didn't even want to see us on day 5 and kept trying to say you don't need to see anyone do you? As this was our only opportunity for baby to be weighed and seen now all other appointments have been stopped, I absolutely wanted to be seen! There will be so many issues that are missed because of appointments and clinics being cancelled. All I keep hearing is that breastfeeding mums are doing great because they don't have to rush back out or they're not interrupted by visitors so everything's hunky dory. That will absolutely not be the case for everyone. I had a concern about my son so ended up paying for a private gp telephone appointment and got sent straight to A&E.

I am a hospital doctor and working in a ‘clean’ non covid ward. However patients are people and some of them have covid with no symptoms. I walk through the hospital and yes I caught covid and was off work for 3 weeks.
Perhaps the OP thinks I am taking advantage of covid too?

I haven't had this experience personally. My trust actually seem to be going above and beyond. I've seen my midwife in person twice and my consultant appointment was over the phone. I've had 4 scans already and I'm 13+4. If I've called up with a concern they have encouraged me to go in...

I think it just depends on your individual trust. I wonder also if it depends on how high risk your area is for covid. I know mine is pretty low.

@sel2223 I appreciate that you have the confidence to test yourself, this is brilliant for you. I too would feel comfortable doing this as I do it every day in my job. Medical literacy is not something everyone has, and tests from amazon are not necessarily reliable. We have not been advised to self test, if tests are read wrong it can cause a lot more work for the midwives.
I do agree a bigger perspective is needed, whilst also thinking of yourself.
I do really feel for the midwives put in this position.

I agree with @ohtheroses.

It’s an absolutely shit time to be pregnant and we are allowed to be upset about the circumstances but it isn’t the fault of midwives.

I for one am extremely grateful to them for going out to work at their own risk and doing their best to make us all deliver safely

We are living through a pandemic, in unprecedented times, lots and lots of services are not running to standard - I haven't seen anyone since we left hospital with our newborn the day before lockdown.

I'm angry and heartbroken about a lot of things, I haven't received anything like the standard of care that I did with my firstborn but it's no ones fault - everyone is trying to make the best out of an extremely shit situation.

When I'm feeling mad or sad about it, I give my head a bit of a wobble and remind myself how lucky I am to have a healthy baby with only really trivial issues. I thank god we live in an age of google and the internet to answer questions I otherwise would look to the HV for guidance on.

You can't expect the same exemplary NHS service we usually have when there is a pandemic. And you can feel mad and hard done to but everyone is adversely affected by this. Everyone.

I think @frillyfucks summed it up very well there....We are allowed to be concerned, worried, angry, upset, disappointed....whatever. The issue I have is with the blame this post places on the nhs and, in particular, the midwives. Lots of services have suffered, not just from a medical perspective but across the board. Why should we be any different? Why should non-essential appointments for pregnant women be placed above all else? This is a completely unprecedented global pandemic! Everyone is affected.

@CouscousEvaporator I have no training and no more confidence than anyone else. I'm just trying to do my best in a bad situation. It's not at all ideal but i feel better knowing i am doing 'something'.

I'm considering getting a home doppler even though I've been against them with previous pregnancies/up until now, but like other posters have said I feel quite alone

It’s all over the place. My community midwife who is NOT based in hospital and thus won’t be dealing with hospital admissions has had no interest in me what so ever. 16 week appt cancelled, has an over the phone appt with another midwife who then booked me in for a 31 week appt in an area that is an hour away from where I live, they obviously thought I didn’t need a 25 week or 28 week appt with my FP! Tried contacting my community midwife to find out why I’ve been missed off the list and absolutely nothing back from her, had to ring the community midwife department only to leave a message for someone to contact me. Finally someone has and I’ve had to make my own 25 & 28 week appt and no one knows why I’ve been given this 31 week appt?!

It does feel like it’s all gone a little bit tits up :( hopefully they can sort this out soon before pregnant women are missed for important tests!

As a number of posters have confirmed, essential ante natal care is still going ahead. Vital care and monitoring, important scans, essential tests....all still happening for those who need it. Anyone with an issue can still ring up for advice or go in and get checked out. None of that has changed.

Midwives are still delivering babies. NICU/SCBU are still there, c sections are still going ahead.
What has changed is that some non-essential appointments have been changed to telephone appointments or cancelled completely and things like routine tests 'just in case', aren't happening.
In later pregnancy, consultants are risk assessing each individual to decide what care is absolutely essential....not just to protect the staff but also to protect you and your unborn baby from any unnecessary exposure.

Whilst we all may think we need extra checks and can't do without extra scans or appointments etc, the medical professionals will take all emotion out if it and will decide what is actually needed on a case by case basis.

I, personally, am comforted by the knowledge that, should i need it, the resources will be there to provide any required extra care in as safe an environment as possible. If not having a 25 week appointment was my sacrifice to enable that to happen then I'm ok with that.

I think this is the most self absorbed and self indulgent post I have read since I've joined Mumsnet. The poor midwives are doing their absolute best for our care in very difficult circumstances. They haven't entered this profession because it is highly paid (or even reasonably paid), or because it is easy, they want to help and take pride in that.

Personally, while some of my appointments have switched to telephone consultations. I have felt well supported through my high risk pregnancy. The medical staff have been kind and reassuring and I truly appreciate the risk they are taking for themselves and their families going into hospitals everyday to support people like me.

I think @sel2223 and @MrsRose2018 made excellent points.

Taking it out on midwives isn’t appropriate. They’re following guidance from the government and the individual trusts will have their own guidelines.
Personally my care has been excellent, and I have been fortunate enough to have all my appointments face to face (so far!)
If your midwife is skipping sections and assuming your answers that’s really unprofessional. Remember you can always request a change of midwife. Take care, and I hope you get more support throughout the rest of your pregnancy x

Whilst we all may think we need extra checks and can't do without extra scans or appointments etc, the medical professionals will take all emotion out if it and will decide what is actually needed on a case by case basis.

This is what it comes down to. Check the amended schedule the RCOG have put out, these decisions have been carefully weighed up and risk assessed.

Looking through the resources on there now, there's recommendations for at home use BP monitors and how your trust can support you doing these checks at home if necessary.

My midwife has been the opposite of this if I’m being honest. This isn’t my first pregnancy but I’ve been offered more regular appointments as though it is and she’s now insisted I have more consultant appointments even though the consultant happily signed me off at 16 weeks. She also sent me for a growth scan last week and mentioned I might need one every 4 weeks because I’ve had previous large babies and this one is measuring big.

I’ve found it frustrating personally because I don’t want to go to the hospital or really leave the house.

If it's 'self absorbed or self indulgent' to be concerned for your antenatal care then I must be those things 🙄

The thread title is wrong, the OP is wrong in the sense that the Midwife's are not to blame, every trust is different it seems and there have been varying levels of care across the country, everyone knows there's a pandemic going on bu mums have concerns and it's good to share rather than being shut down by comments like it's not all about you etc...