To think that some NHS midwives are taking advantage of covid 19

[NinaNeedsToGo]

I actually replied with my rant below to another OP but I decided to start a new topic with my post here.

Sorry ladies but I think what we're going through regarding our antenatal care is a disgrace to put it mildly. More and more post are recently appearing on MN where women are rightly concerned that they are not seen by MWs during second trimester at all. It might be just a BP and dipstick appointment that they are missing but most of us would agree that these seemingly minor test are vital for mother and baby's health. They detect quite common problems such as pre-eclampsia or GD and are a bare minimum we receive through NHS.

I have 3 friends working in NHS hospitals (London and Midlands). From what I can hear from them, and we speak weekly, after an initial surge in covid cases at the end of March up until mid April, it's all gone pretty quiet. All planned treatments or OPs have been postponed or cancelled to create more capacity. It's gone to the point where HCW friends seem to be actually bored on their wards. For example, 24 bed capacity on my friend's ward and just 5 patients, and they have not been even nearing a full capacity at any point of this pandemic. All three of my friends work on virtual wards which basically means that they can be assigned to any ward during their shifts. And they were. Surprisingly, or rather shockingly, one of them had actually worked for a week with covid infected patients and a week later on maternity ward (sic!).

With high staffing levels (surprise surprise high for a number of patients they currently have), bank staff hours were actually ceased because of lack of demand.

I am actually pretty angry with how NHS is handling this crisis because due to the pandemic craze (not that I minimise its severity) we seem to have large swathes of population left to their own fate without vital cancer/ maternity/ diabetic etc treatments/care.

Our maternity care shouldn't be affected because midwives are not really involved in covid cases. What's more, many trusts cancelled some vital services such as GTT at 28 weeks ( I was informed that they would test me for GD from blood only), home births, 16 weeks app,and I heard of 24week apps also being cancelled. Postnatal wards are doing whatever in their power to discharge women asap so that midwives and HCW don't have to run between beds while partners are kept away. So at least in theory, midwives should have it easier or at least the same as pre covid.

It took my midwife an extra minute spent on disinfecting my chair and the desk for me when I had my booking appointment. She barely answered my questions and her responses were short and vague. I actually found that a box in my maternity notes was ticked where she didn't actually mention healthy eating to me at all during the app.

What it is then that leads to such an appalling state of care? Aren't we actually quietly allowing this state of affairs to continue by sitting quiet because in our minds all NHS staff is bravely combating covid19 which I know first hand is not true?

Rant over. Waiting for your points of view

@sel2223 I think your post is a little harsh.

To say we’re not I’ll we’re pregnant - for some people pregnancy puts them at a higher risk of illnesses/complications that do need monitoring.

It’s ok for those with a ‘straightforward’ pregnancy to say they don’t mind/care about lack of services but for some mothers/babies their life depends on these appointments.

I have a condition which needs monitoring in pregnancy - I am more likely to hemmorage during birth, there is the potential for growth issues with my baby and not to mention other problems with my particular condition, which all could be very serious if not monitored. I’m sure there are lots of other mums on this board in similar situations - we shouldnt just assume pregnancy is straightforward for everyone!

Also you say you’ve only had one non essential appointment cancelled - that’s not the case for everyone, some people have had more than that.

I really feel for everyone suffering due to Covid not just pregnant women as you say people who need cancer treatment and other life saving treatments are all suffering but something must be done, we can’t go on forever only treating those with covid and ignoring the rest of the population with health issues.

I think pregnant women and others affected are entitled to be upset by what’s going on, I do also feel so much for all those heath workers and other frontline staff who have lost their lives due to this horrible virus.

Midwives are taking advantage of covid 19 what an exceptionally twatty thing to say.

Midwives have died from covid.

Midwives care for covid positive patients. Both in hospitals and in the women's homes. So yeah, midwives are going into the homes of positive patients.

Midwives have coped with change after change in practice.

Midwives continue to deliver all necessary care.

Some midwives, just like others, may have underlying conditions meaning they ate in the shielding groups. They work from binge where possible but that means others needs to pick up their clinics.

So the remaining midwives are doing more work, with less staff, in stressful conditions.

I understand it is scary, I understand you might feel care is lacking.

Some things, such as replacing GTT with blood test is overdue. It's actually better practice to do the single blood test, but we've all been stuck in our ways.

Women are wonderful, they have coped with so much, not having partners at scans and appointments, single birth partner, worry about who will look after older children and more.

So please don't tell us we are taking advantage, we are all working for you, to try to make your pregnancy and birth a positive experience.

Behind the scenes there is so much change and we really, really want to come out of this with a better service.

@Luckyme30 sorry you thought I was harsh. I don't agree.

I am classed as high risk as well. I had a bleed on the brain last year which needs monitoring and means 8 am at increased risk of seizures in labour so will likely need a c section.

I saw the obstetrician around 15 weeks and am due to see them again next week when I'll be 28 weeks (if it's not cancelled).

As I said in my post, I also feel a bit worried and disappointed and that's ok but I can appreciate the bigger picture. It's not all about me.

It seems to be a bit of a postcode lottery. All my antenatal care got cancelled and my midwife was the one who informed me and she said that in lieu she would see me for the appointments at my local surgery every 4 weeks. She's been a lifeline for me (FTM)

• I am, not 8am lol

I don't want to 'blame midwives' but I think my antenatal care has crossed a line into unsafe. I got onboard with all the telephone appointments, scans without partner etc etc and can completely understand why things aren't carrying on totally as normal. However my placenta failed with my last baby. I was having growth scans for a completely different reason (I was a tiny bit underweight at beginning of pregnancy) and at 34 weeks I went in thinking everything was fine but unfortunately my placenta was failing, baby had stopped growing and lost lots of weight and was struggling, I was admitted straight from scan and he was delivered. I was always told I would have growth scans in any future pregnancy, would be high risk and Consultant let and am taking other medication due to this. Had my Consultant appt last week and the upshot is no one is having any growth scans. I queried this and said that can't be right, surely they are making the decision on risk. She said it was flat out no growth scans for anyone due to risk of Covid to scanners. I'm not this person at all but I burst into tears on the phone. She said instead midwives would measure my bump size. Midwives had been measuring my bump in previous pregnancy and had noted it wasn't growing at same rate bit hadn't commented/taken any action at all. It really was the growth scan that I was having for another reason that picked up what trouble my baby was in. I had no symptoms, was low risk pregnancy and wouldn't have known anything was wrong until he had stopped moving. I believe the growth scan made the difference between the toddler he is now and a still birth.
Anyway I did some digging and the RCOG own guidelines are to risk assess mother's and even if they are staffed at less than 50% capacity someone with my risk should be being offered scans. Also looked at research and midwives can miss small babies by bump measurement up to 70% of the time! If it wasn't good enough before Covid it shouldn't be good enough now. I don't know what to do with this info (back to consultant? PALS?) Sorry for waffling but my point is there's reduced services and unsafe services. It's also worth really questioning the evidence behind why they are doing what they're doing. I'm NHS 'frontline' (not Covid) so was really tolerant and understanding but I do think women and babies are being let down and given actual unsafe care due to the theoretical threat of a virus now. All the logic/risk assessment seems twisted.

What an appalling post!

Do you have any idea how heavily regulated midwives are? Do you have any idea the national standards and regulations they have to work and live up to? Do you have any idea what happens if they depart from those standards and regulations?

I’m not sure what misconceptions some MN mothers have about their care abut you TYPICALLY see your MW at:

• Booking
• 12 week scan
• 16 week community midwife app
• 20 week anomaly

Your scans/appointments after that date are then obviously dependant in your babies and yours health and development. Why do you think you need to or are automatically entitled to more routine scans and appointments if you don’t need them?

Firstly I am high BMI mother (35 at booking but obviously more now). I don’t wear this as a high risk badge to be paraded around. A high BMI has an “increased” risk of GD and birth complications. It doesn’t mean you need to be booted to the front of the pregnancy queue. Do you think a MW or a Trust just wants to abandon the full GTT for fun? Because they want to risk a mother and a babies health? Do you think they would even consider offering a regular fasting blood test in replacement if they weren’t sure it was effective/a safe alternative?

Secondly I’m a high risk pregnancy because my waters broke at 25 weeks. I think it’s great that the OP and some other posters MW/HCP friends etc are having such a leisurely time on their wards. Mine are not! The ward that was our delivery ward was converted into a COVID ward because Manchester needed their oxygen and ventilator supply. We are now the floor above. Do you think that means they go down and rub themselves on a Covid patient then come and deliver a baby!? It means they basically HAZMAT themselves and scrub themselves raw before they even leave the room let alone enter the maternity floor! And what would you prefer in the alternative? Someone is left with no care? Or to die? So a mother with absolutely no life or death problems at that point can have r 1:1 MW care?

Every MW I have seen in the 6 weeks since my PROM has worked overtime, double shifts, cancelled AL. They are exhausted and broken and frankly fucking furious with what they are having to go through and make mothers go through! They get no joy cancelling home births. They get no joy preventing your partners coming to scans. They get no joy having to expedite your delivery or discharge or scale back your appointments to phone calls. They didn’t go through YEARS of training and education and specialisation to just have a little rest now and slack off.

Things have changed. People are literally dying. And unless you or your baby is comparably at risk, tale a second to think what these MWs are risking day in and day out. Weigh your damn selves. Go to the GP for a blood test or a BP check. Be self aware and if you feel unwell SEEK medical advice. Don’t take to the internet to bash the people risking their lives just because antenatal care has justifiably had to be scaled back.

Brilliant post @MrsRose2018 I couldn't agree more!

Hope you're ok and little one is staying put by the way? I've been following your thread x

Although I think some of your worries are understandable, the title of your post is actually hideous. If midwives we’re “taking advantage“ of covid 19 as you’ve so repulsively put it, surely they’d all be off sick, saying they were symptomatic etc, but they’re not, they’re at work, risking the health of themselves and their family for you! I really think you should be massively ashamed of the way you’ve worded this post.

@sel2223 actually has it spot on, and if that makes me sound harsh too then so be it! Covid is very much a problem on the maternity wards, midwives are dying, newborn vulnerable babies are being born that have absolutely no immune system, the staff are doing their best to keep you safe. A pregnant midwife friend of mine contracted covid 19, took it home to her family, recovered and went back to work.

Like someone else has pointed out, maternity can’t cancel anything, women continue to get pregnant, babies continue to be born, nothing gets cancelled or postponed so you cannot compare a maternity ward to the general wards, consider that alongside the lack of staff due to midwives needing to shield or self isolate. A midwife would usually run an antenatal clinic back to back, 20 minute appointment or so each, but it’s totally impossible to do this which the PPE and cleaning needed between patients therefore non essential appointments are being cut to ensure the women that need to be seen are being seen! All through this pandemic, certain MN posts have highlighted how truly selfish and self centred pregnant women can be, perhaps, think about the bigger picture for a second and be slightly grateful that HCPs are still getting up and going to work.. for people like you that have absolutely not appreciation.

Oh and your GP surgery is so available as funnily enough they’ve cancelled all non essential appointments.. a lot of done by telephone triage.. a bit like the maternity services, that you’re so ready to slate.

I'm only 8 weeks, got my booking appointment on Monday which will be mainly over the phone then she has asked me to go in to the clinic briefly for height/weight/BP. So I have no idea what will be happening with regards to the rest of my appointments.
I am a nurse working in a very busy NHS hospital so I am fully aware of the pressures that midwives are under, and the pressure comes from the top - the trust and it's bosses are the ones who make the decisions so very often it is out of the midwives control. Although I agree this doesn't make it acceptable that people are missing important appointments. When I was pregnant with my first, the midwife constantly stressed the importance of attending antenatal appts for urine dip and checking babies heartbeat/measuring bump etc. So seems unfair that now they've deemed it 'not essential'. DP not being able to attend scans is the least of my worries, and I'm very fortunate that I can check my own BP and urine at work for peace of mind. But I'm not sure how I'll feel if I'm going 10/12 weeks without even being checked by a midwife.
Hopefully as more of lockdown is lifted things will improve but that doesn't help you who are heavily pregnant now. I don't think we can blame the midwives though. It's a national issue that's predominantly out of their control.

Also, I didn't know they were stopping home births? I don't want one but after the speed of my labour last time and the emergency circumstances DD was born in I know they'll recommend I have a home birth this time. Although maybe not now 🤷🏼‍♀️

All the angry posters coming on saying things like 'it's not all about you' then proceed to talk about themselves...

I don't agree with the title as it's sounds like Midwife's are just using it as an excuse to not work which obviously isn't the case!

I should clarify I don't think midwives are using this as an excuse at all, rather I agree the care is worrying. And yes I understand somethings got to give and that lives are at risk but I'm still allowed to feel worried.

The trouble @sel2223 saying 'you're not ill' is we wouldn't know if we were as no one is seeing us or doing tests. Like I said my baby was measuring on 94 centile at 20 week scan. When I had to ring midwife as advised by consultant I mentioned it and she told me 'they don't worry about testing for gestational diabetes till 36 weeks'. That is incorrect. If the policy has changed during the pandemic then that's one thing but ordinarily you are tested way before so I felt lied to and fobbed off.

Luckily Im seeing someone else (have only seen my midwife once anyway) when i go in so hoping to get some reassurance.

The care is varying hugely it seems from trusts. I'm not in a hot spot and the hospital is not overrun with covid cases. The maternity unit is a completely separate building and anyone pregnant with covid as to attend a different hospital for birth. Why they couldn't just let the midwife check my urine and BP at the 20 week scan as she was literally doing nothing I don't know.

I get they're under pressure and it's scary and they're risking their lives but people will slip through the cracks and it's worrying.

Wow. Midwives (and any other HCW) are human beings not robots. They don't get the luxury of being able to have no contact with others, like many of the country during a deadly pandemic. They may be pregnant themselves, or have a high risk condition, or have a child or household member who is high risk, whose lives they are putting in danger by seeing patients. Their non-high risk colleagues will be picking up extra work due to this and will be absolutely swamped.

For the sake of the health of my baby, myself and family, I do not want to see a healthcare professional, who is seeing multiple other patients, any more than is necessary at the moment. But I appreciate that my view on this would undoubtedly change if my pregnancy was a high-risk.

Changes have had to be made to keep key workers, us and our babies and families safe. But we are not really being left to it, in comparison to say cancer patients who have had life changing and time sensitive operations cancelled.

Don't forget that GP and crisis services are still operational and can be used by the pregnant population, when needed.

Midwives taking advantage of Covid??? This thread is the most dissapointing, irrational and ignorant thing i've ever read on MN 🤦

I’m not a midwife but an AHP working in a hospital. I just wanted to respond to the point about a midwife working on a Covid ward and then the next week on a non-Covid ward. This happens routinely at our hospital. We are rostered on to cover the Covid wards for a 2-week stint and then back onto non-Covid wards. This is to attempt to reduce the potential viral load on staff members, as well as to support their psychological well-being. All HCP’s working on Covid wards adhere to stringent guidelines, including appropriate PPE to minimise the risk of transmitting the virus. Hospitals are now completely separated into Covid and non-Covid areas and staff don’t go between the two in the course of one day. After finishing a shift on a Covid ward, we remove our PPE and scrubs, shower and change in temporary showers at the hospital and then go straight home.
As pp’s have said, we are having to work in very different and very difficult times and everyone, staff and patients, have to adapt to that. My midwife friends at the hospital are doing their best to provide the best care they can to pregnant women and babies, whilst following the guidelines in an attempt to keep everyone as safe as possible. Please don’t slate them.

Did you seriously just call it the “pandemic craze”?
To claim that midwives are taking advantage of covid-19 is disrespectful and absurd.
They are run off their feet and doing the best they can in a horrible situation. Do you think they are all sat around drinking cups of tea thinking “great! A chance for me to sit on my arse and give poor quality care!”
Get some perspective.

@ChipsAreLife in an ideal world all the appointments and tests would carry on as normal but we're not in an ideal world, we don't have the luxury of non essential appointments to check things 'just in case' at the moment. Something had to give.

Why an women not take some personal responsibility to ease the pressure a bit? I ordered some urine dipsticks from Amazon for a fiver. Not as good as getting tested by the midwife but it helps put my mind at rest. I've seen home tests for blood sugar as well if that was a concern to some. If you notice something wrong or have and concerns, call them! We all have to do our bit.

Do you think hospital services were totally unaffected in wartime Britain? Do you think women in other countries haven't had their antenatal care affected by Covid too? Do you really think that thousands of pregnant women having every single appointment unaffected in case one person 'slips through the cracks' is more important than all those lives? Pregnant women are not ill and essential services have not been cancelled.

FWIW, policies have already started to change now as the number of Covid cases and fatalities has started to drop. This isn't going to last forever, the situation is constantly risk assessed and evolving. Hopefully we will be back to normal sooner rather than later. I for one would love to have all my appointments and ante natal care back to normal.

@Nicknamegoeshere I would ring the other trusts and ask if they can take you on as their patient so you can have a home birth.
You don't have to stay with the trust you are with. Your body, your baby, your choice.
Aims and birth rights have some great information.

I mean the incompetence is high during regular non pandemic times, so it’s to be expected.
An excuse really.

Not the same but when I found out I was pregnant and rang the midwife (following the instructions online for my area) the person who answered the phone said “okay fine are you keeping it or getting rid?” Which I found a little bit insensitive!

I do feel ok with telephone appointments in theory, it’s just mine felt like a rushed tick box exercise. I am healthcare myself and it just felt like because of this things aren’t being explained to me and I had to be assertive and stop her from hanging up on me when I had questions.

At my 20 week scan they will check blood pressure and urine, but I also might ask about running a urine sample into the drs surgery at 25 weeks if possible.

Yes it’s “not all about me” but in my experience with this, being passive means you’re at risk of slipping through a crack.

Midwives are taking advantage of covid 19 what an shitty OP, it’s really quite shameful.

I can’t imagine how staff and the family of Safaa Alam, 30, who had worked at Birmingham Women’s Hospital for six years and during the early days of the Covid-19 crisis reached out to help others.

In a Facebook post she had written: “I am a midwife and will make sure you and your baby are safe when you need our help at the hospital.

Safaa died after catching Covid-19.
Birmingham Women's and Children's NHS Foundation Trust described her as an inspirational and much-loved member of staff known for her kindness and compassion.

Her distraught husband Shazad said: “Saf was my beautiful and full of life wife.

“She was very passionate about her job as a midwife and would often dedicate more than what was required.

@sel2223 I understand all of that I'm not devoid of understanding, thought and feeling. I would argue these medical appointments aren't a luxury but not here to get into it over semantics.

I just said I feel worried about it and concerned. I don't feel like that's an unreasonable emotion whilst pregnant during a pandemic. I'm not precious or entitled just a normal pregnant person who from time to time worries about it.

I will look into in to urine sticks, happy to take responsibility but I've not been told this by my midwife so I wouldn't know. If we have to start doing more ourselves some guidance would be good otherwise I expect it'll cause more problems than solutions.

I'm very grateful to the midwives and the NHS staff and have expressed that in all my interactions with them. I just wish my midwife didn't lie to me as it's unsettling. But it's done now and I'll get clarity from another one I'm sure.

My care is more or less the same. I'm still having all my scans (7 at least) and seeing my midwife or consultant every 2 weeks but I imagine that's because I'm high risk and developed severe pre eclamsia suddenly in my last pregnancy and would have died within hours. However I know this is now unusual in my area as most women are hardly seeing their midwives at all