Doubts about the flu jab

[zigzag7222]

I'm 24 weeks pregnant and am booked in for whooping cough and flu jabs later this week.

I was planning to get the whooping cough jab done anyway as I know it can be very serious if the baby catches it in the weeks after birth.

However, I'm having real doubts about the flu jab. I know several people who have been quite ill after having the jab and am concerned that the same could happen to me. I've read on previous MN threads that the jab isn't "live", so it's impossible to get ill from it afterwards - but it does seem from anecdotal evidence that it can make you unwell.

I've never had flu in my life (am mid 30s) and mostly work from home so don't come into contact with a lot of people on a regular basis. From what I understand, unlike whooping cough the flu jab is solely to protect the mother, not the baby.

My instincts are telling me not to have it, but I'm nervous to go against NHS advice.

I'm booked in for both jabs at the same time - are they separate injections or combined and if so, could I opt to have whooping cough only on the day?

Help!

Flu kills. The jab reduces your chance of getting it. It’s a no brainer to me. I work in healthcare and have mine every year. My toddler is fit and well but if he’d been prem or had any underlying problems I’d have paid privately for him to have it too.

@witchy89 I do work in a relatively small practice where notes are comprehensive and well coded.

I understand there has been no correlation between administration of flu vaccine and subsequent pregnancy loss or premature birth. Of course there’s no way to say 100%, some losses but anecdotally I have never spoken to a woman who has had a loss or complications after flu vaccine. I believe JCVI stats demonstrate no correlation nationally either.

I appreciate it’s difficult to state categorically, as early loss and pregnancy complications aren’t uncommon and may be multifactorial. But I am not aware of a single proven correlated case. Just trying to reassure the OP.

Sorry not RTFT but I had a type of flu that the vaccine did not cover, whilst pregnant. (I had the general vaccine but caught Australian flu). I was dehydrated after constant D and V for 4-5 days, so much so that my bump actually shrunk and I ended up with low amniotic fluid around the baby which had risks and dangers associated with it. I ended up going from average/low to high risk pregnancy around 24 weeks, placed under consultant-Led care which changed all my birthing plans, having to have steroid injections in case my baby needed to come early, and having twice weekly scans, diagnostics and appointments, and the thought of induction constantly looming over me from 28 weeks onward. It was so stressful and scary but luckily my baby was fine and managed to stay put beyond 37 weeks. So please do get vaccinated for whatever you can, if all that had happened due to 'regular' flu and I had chosen not to be vaccinated I would have been under horrendous guilt and pressure as well.

Oh and there’s no thiomersal in the the UK flu vaccine.

But there was until the early 2000s according to Google. So why was it removed? Because of concerns over safety? This is exactly the type of thing I’m worried about! What else is in this jab that might be considered unsafe in 10 years time - by which point it will have passed to my baby?

I’m a doctor and have the flu jab every year, including this year when I was 5 weeks pregnant.

As previous posters have said, the flu vaccine is very safe and not even a live vaccine. The flu, particularly in pregnancy, is deadly to both yourself and your baby.

Another excellent post by @Thoughtlessinengland about ‘common sense’ and social media groups overriding expert knowledge these days (I followed the last thread too). I love it when patients are engaged in their own health and educate themselves, but arguing with anti vaxxers is like banging your head against a brick wall because there is no logic or evidence to their arguments, so there’s no use presenting logic and evidence to persuade them!

OP get the vaccine.

Had it in pregnancy and the 3 years before (and this year). Never had any issues

The strain this year is particularly nasty. I know someone who had to be placed in an induced coma to save your life. An otherwise fit and healthy adult

*their life

Ok, so don't have it OP. I'm not sure what you're expecting to get from this thread to be honest.

A friends dad who was healthy recently passed away in 50s from flu. I mentioned it to my practice nurse while getting injection who mentioned a local case where a lady pregnant with her 2nd child ended up loosing baby in second trimester and was in intensive care on ventilator. Hopefully she will recover but then will have to face this horrible news.
Flu kills...

I don’t think there was in the regular flu vaccine. It was in the swine flu vaccine I think.

Thiomersal isn’t unsafe. It is mostly excreted as ethyl Mercury.

You might find this helpful vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/flu-vaccine-pregnancy

And vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/vaccine-ingredients#thiomersal

People end up in intensive care or even dead due to flu, that would affect your baby...therefore it is not just for your protection.

@Sidge but without extensive tests on the mother and the miscarried tissue etc how can anyone say that the two aren't related? What are they basing these statistics on? Sorry, that sounds like an interrogation, I know that it's not your area of expertise! I'm just curious what they base their research on!

arguing with anti vaxxers

I’m not sure whether that’s aimed at me, but if you read my OP you’ll see I’m not anti-vax. I’m having the whooping cough jab!

@witchy89 I’m not exactly sure - as you said it’s way outside my expertise!

I believe there are factors such as time since vaccination, presenting symptoms, bacteriology and virology sampling, tissue analysis. But I don’t know for sure. I’d need to do more research and as I’m already doing a postgrad course I’m not sure I’ve got the time lol.

I'm not anti vax either. But both pregnancies I've not had either. I'm sure it's illogical but I'm very scared of putting anything in my body during pregnancy and can't bring myself to do it.
However, I did think it was unlikely I'd come into contact with the flu and this year I did. Mil passed it on to my toddler and then toddler to my partner. Me? I didn't get it despite my 'compromised immune system' had my toddler sleeping with me and breathing germs on me all night! I did start regretting it when the flu struck my household. However, my milnhadvthe jab and it provided absolutely no immunity as the jab only}

Protects against the viruses selected the Who.

In terms of the whooping cough jab I did a bit of research and levels are almost back to pre 2012 levels. They brought the jab in after a very sharp increase in 2012.

I still may get the whooping cough jab, but I'm 31 weeks now and keep chucjening out.

I'm sure it's illogical but I'm very scared of putting anything in my body during pregnancy and can't bring myself to do it.

That’s what I feel like. I’ve been so cautious with food and everything else, but now I’m willingly going to inject myself with a (admittedly dead) strain of something my body would ordinarily want to avoid!

Hi @zigzag7222, as someone who has had flu in the past, I say get the vaccine! Its horrible, and I cannot imagine having it while pregnant. I understand that with advice changing frequently it is sometimes difficult not to second guess medical advice. However, the flu vaccine seems to be accepted around the world as safe and also getting the flu trust me is awful! I think I have been emotionally scarred by it and am coming off as dramatic, but still I say get it!

The evidence says that the most sensible course of action is to have the flu vaccination. If you don't want to have it due to an "illogical feeling". Then don't.

You’re getting an undeserved bashing here, OP.
The flu jab isn’t about herd immunity in the same way as other vaccinations as there are so many strains of flu you could get. You’re wise to take stock, question and consider your options as you DO have a choice.

I am not an anti-vaccer and have had all routine stuff over the years, but have chosen not to have the flu jab each year despite being immunocompromised (long-standing Crohn’s disease on Humira). My consultant asks each year if I’ve had the flu jab, I tell him I’ve chosen not to, he writes it in my notes that it’s been offered as he is obliged, and we move on. No grilling or 20 questions why not.

It is entirely your choice.

...and I have had flu three times as an adult, approx every 15 years.

@zigzag7222 just read that actually whooping cough is up from 2018 levels. If I'm going to get vaccinated I need to do it in the next few days. I do feel like after my close shave with the flu I'm tempting fate a bit. Although any jab wouldn't have protected me against this particular strain anyhow.

It isn't live.
I think you should get it but I also think you need to speak to someone about your concerns about it.

I had both last week...felt really tired and a bit ill the day after but pretty fine after that- apart from two sore arms! I felt like i probably wouldn't have it this late in the season if I was to do it again but guess it's better to be safe than sorry

@Rubyroost I’m definitely having the whooping cough jab, as I’m worried about the effect on my baby if they were to catch it as a newborn. I will probably have the flu jab too after reading this thread, as even though my gut instinct is telling me not to, I’m too scared to go against medical opinion. And logically medical opinion should trump gut instinct.