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Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Catching up with TTC #1, thread 8!

996 replies

MrsEG · 07/11/2019 12:50

Getting a new one started before we are full! I’ll go back now and add people - answering everyone’s last posts here!!

@MrsR16 Nesting sounds like a good idea! Our house is such a mess at the moment mid-decorating and I cant wait for it all to be done so I can tidy!!

@BabySquid Fabulous bump! Glad you had such a brilliant time. I’m starting to think that pain sleeping is all just part and parcel of being pregnant now! At my yoga class everyone complains of it!

@Tropicana1 I’m sure there’s nothing to worry about!

@purplefig Yeah it was amazing to hear! Apparently IVF twins are more likely to be small but she never explained why. But yeah, induction is less likely for growth - it could still be needed for other reasons but it’s nice to have one of them off the list! How are you feeling, sleeping any better?

@ELW85 I did sleep a little bit better! I still woke up about 4:30 but slept all the way from 10 til then which is amazing! I feel like I’m slowly getting used to just being tired now! Glad you managed a better sleep!

@PippaPug Glad you got the radiator sorted! Yeah I’m amazed at how care changes from place to place but I think the main thing is as long as someone is seeing us at least once a month then that’s great!! How have you been feeling? I’m 24+4 today and really starting to feel uncomfortable now. My bump measured approx 32 weeks yesterday!! 32!!! She thinks they must be lying all at the front.

@cupcakesandglitter From doing some googling I think at the 28 week appt they’ll more start telling me what I can and can’t do in the birth - like start laying out all of my options? So I’m not gonna worry too much and wait to see what they say! My only ‘preference’ is everyone arrives happy and healthy and all are safe and well! I love the bong haha - how are you feeling today?

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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
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MrsR16 · 06/12/2019 13:45

@MrsEG @cupcakesandglitter @LokiCat @LikeTheFruit @BabySquid @purplefig @PippaPug thank you so much ladies! He's doing wonderfully 😊 that first poo though... brace yourselves! 😂

I'm doing ok, now very tired, but I haven't slept properly since Wednesday night! I just keep staring at this little tiny human that I managed to push out 😍 I'm so in love!!

BabySquid · 06/12/2019 13:50

@PippaPug hallelujah 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻 I'm so glad Wayfair FINALLY got it right and you can start on the nursery, and rightly so they should be sorting on some kind of refund for all the time and hassle, not to mention the stress on a pregnant lady!

MrsH497 · 06/12/2019 15:00

@MrsR16 omg what a darling! Hello Ethan! Birth goal right there and you've made it seem much less scary (midwife talked to me about water births and home births yesterday) first poo doesn't sound fun though!

@cupcakesandglitter hello lovely hope you're ok.

@LikeTheFruit yay for third trimester!

@PippaPug so glad they finally got it right taken them long enough

I'm loving everyone guessing what we are having, we don't think we will find out most people are team girl so far.

How is everyone today?

Larrydavid · 06/12/2019 17:01

Hey hey! Finally had my NHS scan and everything is good. I also had the harmony test all is ok. Feeling very relieved. I'm telling my parents tomorrow - I've always said I'll never have children, plus because we're getting married next year, they just won't be expecting it at all - especially our timing. I'm a bit nervous about telling them!

I've had a good week. My company was one years old this week - which feel like an important milestone and I finally bought my wedding dress! (There's a very obvious tummy there already, I swear it's because I'm short and there's no where for it to go!) hope you all have good weekends planned?

@MrsR16 congratulations- he is just beautiful! ❤️

@LokiCat must be wonderful to feel movements! Enjoy

@PippaPug Wayfair finally came through for you!! Hooray

@MrsH497 We've decided to keep it a surprise- I think it might help get it out!

MrsH497 · 06/12/2019 18:17

@Larrydavid Hun I'm the same I'm short especially in my body at 16 weeks I can't hide it I have a bump! Exactly my theory there's nowhere else for it to go! How exciting about your dress I adored picking my dress out was totally opposite to what o thought I wanted 😂
Heading to our friends who are due 9 days before us first big car journey since Tuesday I'm apprehensive!

Lemonysherbet · 06/12/2019 19:50

@MrsR16 wow that was quick! Huge congratulations, he's adorable. I genuinely awwed out loud at the photo. I've had such a shite day and you've made me really grin and forget all my worries!

Also intrigued about the water birth, it's been in the back on my mind since we found out that I wouldn't mind giving it a go, but I wouldnt want to set my heart on it and be disappointed if it was in use at the time. When you've got 5 mins to spare (ha!) In a few weeks if you could tell me more I would really appreciate it 🥰

@Larrydavid that's great news about your scan, I've found I've relaxed into it so much more since the scan. It's not so overwhelming anymore!

Fivebyfive2 · 06/12/2019 23:10

@MrsR16, congratulations!! So glad labour went well and everyone is OK. Xx

@purplefig, I was actually thinking about the high count of boys on the thread and also wonder if it could be linked to how a lot of us timed things around ov day... It's an interesting one I think!

Reading with interest all the different views on visitors. I think it's something we'll figure out at the time, I guess it depends on how the birth goes, when we're sent home etc. My parents live close but are pretty chilled, so will just do whatever... Dh is already teasing me though, saying I'll be ringing my mum as soon as we're home 😂 His parents live in Spain half the year...they come back just for Christmas and are planning on stopping a few extra weeks this time, as baby is due in Jan. We'll have to negotiate something so they get time with us before going back, without us feeling like they're invading... Wish me luck with that one ladies!!

We saw Motherless Brooklyn at the cinema tonight, it's a really good noir if you're into that sort of thing. Putting the tree up tomorrow 😀🎄

Happy weekend all! Xx

LokiCat · 07/12/2019 09:18

Morning ladies 😊 happy Saturday! DH is at work so having a little lie in with the whole bed to myself 😁

@LikeTheFruit happy 27 weeks! How exciting you're in the third trimester! Sounds like you found some great bargains on gumtree. You still have time to get bits, plus with the sales coming up hopefully you'll get some good deals as well!

@purplefig I hadn't heard about that theory, but what you're suggesting does make a lot of sense.
Haha I still remember that fertility drink you were having :)
Hope you have a lovely weekend x

@cupcakesandglitter oh no, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope all is better now? Happy 23 weeks!
How exciting you got to capture the movements on video! I'm good thank you. Got the 20 week scan on Monday, so getting excited but also slightly nervous about that! Hoping to make a start on the nursery after that; how's yours coming along?

@PippaPug waheyyy!! Glad they've finally got it right! I hope putting it up goes well this weekend and they offer you the right refund/discount for all the hassle you had to go through!
Your weekend sounds lovely! It's great you have such a nice relationship still with the children. Cake and hot chocolate also sounds divine! Reading that has already given my a craving for chocolate cake and it's only 9am 😂
Enjoy the Christmas party tomorrow as well!

@Larrydavid so happy your 12 week scan went well as well! It feels like such a massive relief getting past that stage and being able to enjoy it more. I hope telling your parents goes well.
How exciting you've got your wedding dress, as well!

@Fivebyfive2 oh I hope that conversation with the ILs goes well! Will they be staying with you or at their own place? Enjoy putting the tree up!! DH has long shifts this whole weekend, so I don't think we'll be able to get ours up until next weekend unfortunately!

So I've finally felt some proper kicks this morning!!! I put my hand there to feel and it moved! It's such an amazing feeling 🥰
I can't wait for DH to feel now and hopefully be able to catch it on video as well!

I'm spending the weekend with my mum, as my dad is working shifts like DH. She said we'd get a take away, stick some movies on and have a nice catch up (maybe some shopping tomorrow!) 😁
Hope you all have a lovely weekend ahead x

BabySquid · 07/12/2019 13:41

Happy weekend all, so glad it's Saturday! We had our carpet fitted this morning, before and after pics attached, can't wait to hoover it now though!
I had my works xmas party last night and I regrettably wore heels for the first half of it, my feet and hips are still in agony now!! But I'm off for a full on pregnancy pamper session soon, massage, facial and leg massage!! 😁
@LokiCat hope you enjoyed your lay in, I'd give awt for one of them right now!! So nice you felt some proper kicks too, it's so wonderful (although I'm sure I just had a foot in my ribs, that wasn't so wonderful!!) your weekend with your mum sounds great too.
@Larrydavid glad your scan went well, let us know your parents reaction! Ooo what's your dress like? As with MrsH, mine was different to what I imagined I'd have too.

Catching up with TTC #1, thread 8!
Catching up with TTC #1, thread 8!
MrsEG · 07/12/2019 14:06

@likethefruit I think crutches could be a great idea at the moment to be honest! Max walking now is about 15 mins and it has to be very slow. Sounds like you got some great bargains on Gumtree! Oh my gosh I actually can’t believe someone would be on the phone like ‘epidural is in!’ - out of interest, I’ve been told I should go for an epidural either way with twins, should I need baby manipulation or a c-section - would you agree? I’m not averse to it at all, it was just mentioned at NCT!

@purplefig Moan away! All pain is relative - this group is for sharing all niggles and ailments! Is your back any worse or does it tend to just be the same pain? Do you find anything in particular triggers it? Have a fab weekend (pain free I hope!)

@cupcakesandglitter Happy 23 weeks! Amazing to see them moving isn’t it :)

@PippaPug My twins were 1lb 10 and 1lb 9 at the 24 week scan too!! I was in agony all day yesterday but basically didn’t move all day and feel better for it this morning! Yay Wayfair is finally sorted - I hope it’s all there when you build it now!! That’s so lovely that you stay so close with the ex-family, sounds like a brilliant way to spend a weekend!! How old are the children now?

@MrsR16 Hope you had a good first night with Ethan!!

@Larrydavid Glad the scan went so well! Have you found out the sex - was I right in thinking you had the NIPT test also? Ah wedding dress in the bag too! I was so indecisive with mine and ended up with two 🙈 I did manage to sell the one I didn’t wear though!!!

@Fivebyfive2 With visitors I think just make sure it’s an arrangement you’re happy and comfortable with! I think there’s a fine line between people wanting to pop in and see you and just becoming overwhelmed by it all, especially after going through something as monumental as birthing a child!

@LokiCat Ahh proper kicks! It’s amazing when it happens after all the weeks of guessing and ‘was that one?!’

@BabySquid Carpet looks fabulous! Enjoy the pampering - I am incredibly jealous!!

Happy Saturday folks! I had yoga this morning and it has hit the spot perfectly. Had a very down day yesterday just feeling so immobilised and in pain with the PGP but I’ve perked myself up today. Off out with some friends now for lunch. Then it’s my baby shower tomorrow! Just found out my sister has booked for me to get my make up done for it as a surprise (haven’t had that done since I got married!!) which I’m actually so pleased with, as I’m certainly rounded in face these days so I need professional help before all these photos are taken haha!
Have great days all x

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MrsR16 · 07/12/2019 21:40

@MrsH497 it's really not scary! I did had a bit of a moment a couple of times, but then remembered that everything that was happening was enabling me to meet my baby!

@Larrydavid thank you, lovely 😊 I'm glad everything is ok! It's such a relief isn't it?

@Lemonysherbet aw, I'm glad I helped brighten your day!! 😂 the water birth really was amazing! I'll do a bit of a story as a separate post, so you can read exactly how things went for me 😊

@Fivebyfive2 thank you! I'm glad it was fairly straightforward!

@LokiCat so exciting to feel first movements! Wait till you can see them - it's completely surreal!

@BabySquid carpet looks beautiful!

@MrsEG we did ok! Ethan is just magical 😊 I ended up getting 3 hours of broken sleep, but that's ok and absolutely to be expected at the moment! I was honestly petrified about last night, but it really was ok.

MrsR16 · 07/12/2019 21:46

Right ladies, I'll apologise for the length, but if it helps a few of you out, then it's totally worth it!

As you already know, my waters broke around 00:15. I called the hospital to let them know and they advised that I could either go in to confirm that, or stay at home. I chose to stay at home because I wasn't contracting yet and wanted to be as relaxed as possible. About 20 mins after I got off the phone, I started contracting. They were easily managed and I was able to talk to DH through them. They quickly ramped up in length and intensity. I used the app Freya (from the Positive Birthing Company) and it advised that I was in established labour (a minimum of 45 seconds, and 3 contractions within 10 mins). I called the hospital back and they advised to wait at home for another hour to see if they would let up a bit, as sometimes they do. I took 2 paracetamol at this point, just to try and take the edge off. After an hour, they were lasting a minute and we're coming every 2 mins! So I called the hospital and they said to make our way in. We grabbed a few last minute bits that we needed, said goodbye to the dog (obviously super important!) and got in the car. The contractions were really quite uncomfortable at this point, but breathing exercises got me through it! That car journey was the longest in the world! DH was amazing and counted me through my breathing exercises the whole time. We got to the hospital and made our way up to the delivery suite. I was asked for a wee sample, which I really struggled to give! I was quite sick at this point, but apparently that was very normal. The contractions were still ramping up and I was beginning to get a bit vocal through them. While I was in the bathroom, I did get a bit scared, but then remembered that I was in a safe place and that I could be got to if required, so I got myself back into a positive mindset, got my wee sample done and went back to the bed. The midwife then advised that she wanted to examine me to figure out how things were doing! I really struggled with this, as I couldn't abide being on my back and the contractions were not helping. One finished, so I got myself on the bed and was examined. This is uncomfortable but it's really not too horrendous, I promise! I then started another contraction and had to get off the bed onto my knees by the side. The midwife came round and rubbed my lower back, which really helped! Once that one had finished, she told me that she has no idea how I did it, but that when she started her exam, I was 4cm dilated, but then jumped to 7cm as the next contraction started! It was then that I was asked about my birth preferences and I said that I'd always loved the idea of a water birth. Within about 2 mins, I heard the pool being run. I then moved into the room, which was just beautiful. Dimly lit, beautiful dancing colourful lights, and speakers for music to be played. I got into the pool and it was wonderful. It really helped me relax and it was good to feel that little bit of weightlessness! The midwives were brilliant and there was a shift change about 15 mins after I got in the pool. They were very much up for letting me crack on with whatever I felt I needed to! This included when I felt I needed to push - they didn't stop me! I used the gas and air a little bit, which really helped to start with. It got to the point where I could feel the head coming down the birth canal. It is painful, there's no getting out of it, but it was so amazing that I was capable of doing this! It got to the point where I could see the head if I looked down, which was completely surreal. The stinging is insane, but it's all worth it. I don't remember actually managing to birth the entire body, just the moment of looking down and seeing my baby boy at the bottom of the pool! I pulled him up onto my chest, and saw that he was a boy! It was so emotional, DH was nearly in tears (which he doesn't do ever!) and I couldn't stop smiling 😊 we had a bit of delayed cord clamping, and then DH cut the cord. Not planned, but the midwives offered and he accepted! I then had the injection to bring the placenta out, which came 6 mins after Ethan was born. DH had skin to skin while I was helped out the pool. I was then put on the bed so the midwife could have a look at me and see how I'd done. I had a grade 2 tear, which was probably because of how quickly Ethan made his entrance into the world! I also had a little bit of grazing either side of the urethra, but not enough to have to repair it. Be warned with a water birth, they have to leave stitching for at least an hour after you get out the water. But that passed pretty quickly! Ethan was weighed and given his Vit K injection. The stitching was uncomfortable but perfectly manageable with breathing exercises. I then had skin to skin with Ethan and DH hopped up on the bed beside me. There was no rush to get me moved to another room, which was just lovely. Once we'd had some time and we were ready, we were moved to a single room. I wheeled Ethan in his cot which was good. We then just relaxed! I was given tea and toast, DH grabbed a cat nap, and Ethan was checked over by the baby doctors and a hearing professional. He got the all clear on everything which was wonderful. It appears quite brutal if you watch, but it really is ok! We were then told that we'd be ok to leave if Ethan fed again, which he did 😊 we had the discharge chat, which was helpful and were allowed to go! The midwife checked the car seat and his outfit to make sure that it was all safe and then gave me a hug, saying "I still don't think you realise how well you did!"

It really was a positive experience! For those of you who may be a bit scared, or apprehensive, or whatever, I hope I can kinda help alleviate those negative feelings! Everything really is worth it and it's just magical! I feel that I've gone 12 rounds with Mike Tyson, but it'll get easier and easier! My parents came over today, which allowed me and DH to catch up on some sleep! The only sticking point is that I was supposed to have a midwife come out to me today (standard day post discharge visit!) but there was a miscommunication between the hospital and the community team, so the community team didn't realise Ethan had arrived! They're coming out tomorrow though and were full of apologies.

Little tips: I am living in disposable knickers at the moment - they're absolutely the best invention since sliced bread! Make sure you've got loads of maternity pads! They're super soft and padded but I'm going through them at a rate of knots! The first wee does sting, but it is getting much less painful now. It does hurt to sit down, but once I'm down, it's ok 😊

If any of you have any questions at all and think I can help, please just ask! I'm by no means an expert, but I'd love to try and help out as much as possible.

BabySquid · 08/12/2019 03:58

So ladies, don't leave your hospital bag too long... 31 weeks on Monday and I'm laid in hospital as my waters broke while sleeping at about 1:00am. Trying not to panic but I've been told I'll be kept in, not sure how long. No contractions though so that's good, no bleeding or paid either.

Fivebyfive2 · 08/12/2019 04:19

@BabySquid, a couple at our NCT had their baby at 32 weeks! Everyone doing very well now, if it helps at all... Hope they're looking after you at the hospital xxx

BabySquid · 08/12/2019 04:25

@Fivebyfive2 that is quite reassuring thank you. Yes they're all lovely here and looking after me. Poor DH was in a panic when I woke him up though I thought he was going to pass out!! I'll try keep you updated.

MrsR16 · 08/12/2019 05:37

@BabySquid oh lovely, wishing you all the best! Try not to panic - you're absolutely in the right place 😊 I'm so glad you're being looked after!

MrsEG · 08/12/2019 07:14

@MrsR16 What an amazing birth you had; I agree with the midwife you really did do so well! Enjoy these first few days with your new little man :)

@BabySquid Oh wow! As @Fivebyfive2 says, with me expecting twins I’ve been told lots about pre-term labour and delivery and there’s so much the hospitals can do now. You’re definitely in the best place! I also have a friend who’s babies were both prem at 32 and 33 weeks and everything was fine. I’ll keep everything crossed for you.

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LokiCat · 08/12/2019 12:52

@BabySquid wishing you lots of luck lovely! Understandable to be nervous, but I'm sure they'll look after you and I hope all goes well xxx

@MrsR16 wow thank you for sharing your beautiful birth story! You did so so well and I'm glad you had such a positive experience! I may be asking you questions when Im closer to the time and thinking of my birth plan. Hope you and Ethan are doing well 😊 xx

@MrsEG oh I'm so sorry that the PGP has been getting you so down. I'm glad you were able to perk up yesterday and hope you had a lovely lunch with your friends! Enjoy your baby shower today! How lovely of your sister to book you in to get your makeup done beforehand. Can't wait to see photos :) x

Been having a lazy start to the Sunday! Keep hoping to feel for more kicks but they're not as often right now. I get the biggest grin on my face every time I feel one though, such a surreal feeling!

Have a lovely Sunday ladies 😊 xx

cupcakesandglitter · 08/12/2019 20:05

@MrsR16 what a wonderful positive story, well done you, it sounded magical 😭🥰

@BabySquid you're in safe hands and fx all goes smoothly, you might get to meet your baby soon 🥰 good luck x

Thankyou @MrsEG 😊 it's so amazing, I love her so much 😭 hope your baby shower went well?! I bet you looked amazing, what dress did you go for in the end? 😊

Yes thanks @LokiCat slowly getting there. My family have really been testing me lately but I am learning to just relax and not pay any attention to it 😅 ahh that's totally understandable but enjoy every second, the detail is amazing and wait until you see how much they've grown!! We finally sold the sofa on Friday, so the flooring has been ripped up and just waiting for my dad to give us a hand with the new one... then I'm ready to paint 😀 nesting has kicked in hard so we're actually doing the bathroom too 😂🤦🏻‍♀️

Thankyou @MrsH497 how're you doing? Resting up I hope?! X

Thanks @PippaPug doing much better 😀 haha oh my god I bet you're so relieved!!! I hope they're giving you a decent refund too, the stress that it's caused you and for so long too. Glad it's finally sorted!!

BabySquid · 08/12/2019 20:08

@cupcakesandglitter thanks, I'd much rather it stay safely put for another 6 weeks though.
I'll keep you all updated, for now though, nothing to report.

MrsEG · 09/12/2019 07:57

@LokiCat Thanks lovely, I’ve woken today so excited about just 8 working days left til mat leave that I don’t even care about the PGP anymore!! Don’t worry about the movements much yet; I didn’t feel any form of pattern or regularity until very recently; just enjoy feeling those little kicks!!

@cupcakesandglitter Glad all the decorating is going well!

@BabySquid Hope everything is going okay for you lovely ♥️

I had the most lovely day at my baby shower yesterday! The lady who came to do my make up was so nice, she’s TTC #2 at the moment so we were just waffling on about all things pregnancy! My sister did such an amazing job and even though I’d been a little apprehensive, it still felt really intimate. We were totally overwhelmed with presents too; these little fellas are so spoiled already! Have attached some pics. I was SO tired though; spent about an hour on my feet and it did me in!!

Catching up with TTC #1, thread 8!
Catching up with TTC #1, thread 8!
Catching up with TTC #1, thread 8!
OP posts:
BabySquid · 09/12/2019 09:34

@MrsEG that cake is amazing!!! I'm so glad you had a great day, love the 'thing one and two' grows too!! 😍😍 and you look absolutely amazing, that dress is beautiful. There looks to be a proper boat load of gifts too, lucky mama and babies. (Gutted I won't get to have mine now 😞)
We're still ok in here, still in hospital but the midwife said once the drs seen me and as long as they're happy, they'll send me home tomorrow (24 hours after my last steroid injection, which was 5am today) baby seems to be moving more today already than it did yesterday which I feel better about.

thumper59 · 09/12/2019 10:38

@MrsR16 congratulations!! Your labour sounds lovely 😊 he is gorgeous

@MrsEG you look fab!! Glad you had a nice day xx

Sorry for the absence!! The days vanish with babies. I'll try catch up but it will take me forever! Freddie is great. We've been all over and he met Santa!! He's currently having a cat nap on my knee before we go out for dinner. He's 5 weeks on Thursday! Hope your all doing well ladies 💙

LokiCat · 09/12/2019 11:45

Morning ladies! 😊

@cupcakesandglitter ah completely understandable, family can be difficult at times but I'm glad you're able to ignore it for now and relax. This should be a joyous time for you!
The scan was so amazing! I couldn't believe everything the sonographer could see and in so much detail. I'm sad it's the last one!
Oh brilliant, glad its going well! Take full advantage of the nesting to get as much done 😂

@MrsEG what a beautiful cake and you look so glowy and fabulous!! Such a beautiful dress. Glad you had such a lovely baby shower and we're thoroughly spoilt, along with babies! Lovely photos :)

@BabySquid glad you're doing well and hope you'll be able to go home soon. Sounds like baby is doing well and may be able to stay put for a little longer, which is good news.

@thumper59 lovely to hear from you! Glad you and Freddie are doing well, he looks so adorable in the photos! Can't believe he's already 5 weeks, how amazing 😍

We just got back from our scan, which went really well! We're having a little girl! 🥰🥰
Sonographer checked everything and all is growing well and normally. Baby is apparently head down, so the kicks I was feeling were actually punches 😂 she's also really shy, kept covering her face with her arms. It was so amazing to see it all!
We got a McFlurry on the way back to celebrate 😁

Working from home the rest of the day thankfully, so going to set myself up in bed with my laptop to be all comfy.

Have a lovely Monday all xx

ELW85 · 09/12/2019 11:53

Wow I leave you lot alone for a few days and have so much to come back to 😂
Sorry for the absence guys - between trying to get ready for NYC on Wednesday and work I’ve slept and not done much else!

@MrsR16 - congratulations!! Ethan is gorgeous and your birth story is really refreshing and lovely to hear! You’re an absolute rockstar for handling it as you did.

@BabySquid - good luck! I hope you’re doing well 😊

@LokiCat - good luck for the scan today (and sorry if I’ve gotten that wrong!) it’s amazing to feel the kicks isn’t it?

@Larrydavid - pleased your scan and Harmony went well!

@thumper59 - you look fantastic and Freddie is gorgeous - so pleased you’re doing well 😊

@cupcakesandglitter - hope you’re ok lovely! I’m finding it hard to keep up with life at the moment, just remember to be kind to yourself!

I hope everyone is well and sorry for the updates I’ve missed.
Decided to take a little time to myself this afternoon and go and donate some toys we bought at the weekend to a Christmas appeal en route to working from home this afternoon. I’ve been too wrapped up in work and it’s not good for anyone (apart from work?!)