Controversial did anyone drink in pregnancy??

[Lmj25]

Not saying I would was just wondering did anyone?

That was to the Dowager. It was a highly educated risk assessment!

What does more than one student mean? Does it mean 2? FAS is incredibly rare, I was talking to a doctor about it not long ago actually who said that most will never come across it in their whole career. I do sympathise to some extent with the position of removing all risks possible but the odd glass of wine or beer just isn’t really a risk is it?

Note Snorey's wording - she's come across 'more than one student' with symptoms of FAS.

So not many - and only with symptoms - and this from a teacher (read: not a healthcare professional).

And even if these kids did have FAS - was it down to the mothers having the odd glass of chardonnay?

A glass a night really isn’t light drinking and I would strongly recommend against that level of consumption. It is of course your choice, but I would certainly not like anyone reading this during or before pregnancy to think that is within safe limits.
A drink once a week or less would be considered light and as far as we can tell that level isn’t associated with negative growth outcomes. On a population level. Individual outcomes will vary and cannot be quantified the same way.

The current NHS guidelines are reasonable imo. They allow women to have the odd one and i think that is important because we can’t get into a situation where women run the risk of prosecution for having a single drink - that’s scary territory where our autonomy is not respected.,
(I am a geneticist with a background in human development.)

FAS and FASD are not that rare - current best estimates are that a few percent of children suffer the effects of maternal alcohol exposure. FAS is the more affected end of a continuum and not too hard to diagnose (characteristics facies and brain structure abnormalities plus behavioural issues.) FASD is a range of subtler behavioural, emotional and physical issues in affected children and is not as easy to diagnose.
No one having a drink a week or one Stella at jungle night is going to have a child with FAS. Daily drinking is a definite risk factor for a range of issues ranging from SGA (small for gestational age) to FASD symptoms.

It's perfectly normal behaviour and within the regular (ie not for pregnant women) guidelines to have a glass of wine a night and it hasn't been shown that that sort of very light carrying-on-as-normal behaviour has caused any harm at all - has it?

Snorey of course you weren’t wrong to eat and drink according to the guidelines. It’s your pregnancy. I drank a very small amount with my first. I’m choosing not to this time.

I find you attitude very black and white with what women sblf and shouldn’t do however, and changing whether or not you would drive somewhere is extreme.
I’d hate my dc to be taught by you in future.
Fail a spelling test one day and you sound like youd be assuming it was that glass of fizz I had at a wedding when I was six months.
After all with your qualified teacher status you can probably diagnose such matters.
Or heaven forbid I bumped into you in the supermarket car park, now I’m pregnant and with my small child.
What kind of pregnant mother would drive to a supermarket with her toddler? It’s a disgrace.
She should have sent her husband instead.

Is your dh cowering in the corner thinking please not another to do list?
You say you don’t drink much, I wonder if he wishes you’d have a glass from time to time

See that’s what I don’t get snorey “oh we need milk, bread and toilet roll, I’ll just jump in the car and get some. Oh no I won’t, I’m pregnant, better send the DH to go and get it instead” really?!

There's no logic behind it.

An accident is as likely to occur whether the journey is 'necessary' or 'unnecessary'.

And why is an unborn child's life that much more important that one would forego 'unnecessary' journeys - while sending poor old DH to take the possible hit?

Taking a car journey is risky. Full stop.

Whereas there is zero evidence to suggest the old glass of wine (around 1-2 units a week) causes any harm.

It's perfectly normal behaviour and within the regular (ie not for pregnant women) guidelines to have a glass of wine a night and it hasn't been shown that that sort of very light carrying-on-as-normal behaviour has caused any harm at all - has it?

For pregnant or non pregnant? For pregnant absolutely too much and too often. One/two units a week maximum.

For non pregnant women? Yes, it has been linked to health problems. For example a daily 10g alcohol intake is associated with an increase in beast cancer risk of 5% for pre menopausal women and 9% for post - that’s the equivalent to a very small glass of wine or beer a day, much smaller than an average pub/restaurant measure. The risk increases with intake level.
Daily drinking, even low level, isn’t good for you. The idea is often pushed that it is but this is down to the confounding effect I mentioned earlier of v light drinkers vs TT populations.

No, I haven't drank alcohol or consumed sauces even made with large amounts of alcohol or taken cold medicine with it in it while pregnant.

I struggle to think of things more selfish then drinking when you know you're pregnant, except maybe abusing drugs and not trying to quit smoking.

Studies have shown even consuming small amounts during pregnancy can change the way a baby looks but even if it didn't why risk it? I seriously question the priorities of someone who can't stop drinking completely while pregnant.

I had a glass now and again after the first trimester (too sick to drink anything at all!)

By now and again I mean I have had one very small glass of red wine, a glass of champagne and a glass of sangria in the last two months. Special occasions and I really enjoyed them.

Second pregnancy and not angsting over it. May not have another one for a month, or three months, or whatever. Can't bring myself to stress about it.

It's perfectly normal behaviour and within the regular (ie not for pregnant women) guidelines to have a glass of wine a night and it hasn't been shown that that sort of very light carrying-on-as-normal behaviour has caused any harm at all - has it?

And that's the issue really isn't it, because a glass of wine a day is not light drinking at all and, as Anatidae has pointed out it is potentially very harmful. Perceptions of what constitutes "light drinking" vary from person to person. It is very dangerous to push the notion that light drinking is fine, when some people will take that to mean a glass of wine a day!

Leigh I totally agree. In fact, I think that those who drink while pregnant have made their priorities very clear really haven't they.

Obviously there are very slight 'risks' associated with normal regular drinking Anatidae as there are with so many pleasant vices, but my question was what specific issues has research convincingly identified as being a particular risk for pregnant women of carrying on as normal and having a glass of wine in the evening. In relation to either the women or foetus/ baby. I'm not sure there is any. I'm not talking binges or getting tipsy, simply a glass. It really is a stretch to call that heavy drinking!

I certainly stopped drinking while I had morning sickness for the first three months of each pregnancy Leigh, then my priority was to carry on as normal rather than get massively precious over a very normal event in life. That's a healthy and non self-indulgent mindset, probably vastly better for all concerned, baby included.

Drinking during pregnancy is never going to be "vastly better" for a baby Goodbye, however much women on this thread want to justify their actions.

And a glass of wine every day is a lot of drinking across a week/month/nine months.

I have to wonder goodbye whether you've ever had difficulties conceiving or experienced a miscarriage? You don't need to answer that of course but your view of pregnancy as a completely normal, every day occurance is perhaps a description of how you found it to be. For some parents it is very much more fragile.

It really is a stretch to call that heavy drinking!

It’s not light drinking - not for someone pregnant. Daily consumption isn’t recommended and is associated with a number of risks such as being small for gestational age.

I’m honestly not being judgey or a killjoy - very low alcohol consumption in pregnancy probably isn’t harmful on the population level. I hope all my posts on this thread have been non judgemental and evidence based .
A drink a day, even a small one, is well over the recommended limits for pregnancy. When the foetus is exposed it’s exposed for longer because everything it pees out goes into the amniotic fluid and gets swallowed (as well as other foetal metabolic differences.)
It’s a risk you choose to take and that’s up to you. Lots of things are risky - but a daily drink, even a small one, is into harmful territory.

Drinking during pregnancy is never going to be "vastly better" for a baby

I suspect the very odd glass of wine (I'm talking no more than 1 a week) and a relaxed, happy mother probably is vastly better than a highly strung, uptight mother getting very anxious about following every guideline to the letter.

suspect the very odd glass of wine (I'm talking no more than 1 a week)

That sort of level isn’t associated with worse outcomes on the population level, according to the research we currently have.

That sort of level isn’t associated with worse outcomes on the population level, according to the research we currently have.

Which is why I'm comfortable with it. I personally wouldn't be advocating for daily drinking during pregnancy.

But I'm relaxed and happy WITHOUT the need to drink alcohol to get me that way!! In fact, I was over the bloody moon to be pregnant both times, hence my desire to do my very best for them.

I had the odd drink with dc1 and nothing with dc2. I stopped drinking almost completely a few years ago, when I was with a partner with alcohol issues. Whenever I went out with him and his family, I'd tell the bartender that I don't drink, but they're all going to keep pestering me, so they would just pass my glass of water under the spirit taps. Nobody had any idea that I wasn't drinking.

It's your pregnancy. Do what you feel comfortable with.

Anatidae I'm interested to know what outcomes have been identified as worse, drinking a small glass of wine a night while pregnant. Because I don't think any have actually been identified have they. You haven't answered the point specifically.

But I'm relaxed and happy WITHOUT the need to drink alcohol to get me that way!!

That's fine then. No one is forcing you to drink against your will.

Others will find that the very occasional drink is good for their mood/overall well being.

So yes we're talking about research at a population level. Is there any which indicates that a glass of wine each night hurts in any way whatsoever?