What if I can't do the NCT classes?

[FrostyPopThePenguinLord]

First baby due in early March, I'm having a C section and we were thinking the other day that we have absolutely no idea how to actually keep a child alive.
We know we feed it and change it etc, but how often, how much, when are things supposed to happen, we are having a bit of a flap because all the baby books are alarmingly vague and don't want to commit to specific instructions as such.
So I looked up NCT classes in our area, the only one available in the time we have left is a 19 hour course. 2 thirds of which focuses on labour and delivey. We thought fine, lets do that and just zone out the stuff that doesn't apply to our case, no problem.....then my husband saw how much it costs....he said hell no. Not paying that much to sit there and the majority of the stuff not be relevant.
I see where he is coming from and I do agree....however I have much younger siblings and helped with their care slightly so I at least can change a nappy and hold a baby properly etc.....he is an only child and has never even held a baby in his life. I'm worried that we won't cope without some instruction.
We are not poor by any means but he is incredibly careful with money and we are also saving up for a house deposit, so he refuses to spend that much on a third of a course. I can't blame him, I'm on sick pay due to hyperemis so money is a bit tighter than usual, plus Christmas and many birthdays coming up for our huge families. Plus lots of baby stuff still to buy, although we are being thrifty with that as far as possible.
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I can't find any free courses in the area, we are not entitled to any benefits and to be honest I'm probably looking in the wrong place. I'm planning to ask my midwife for more info at my 25 week chec, but I know courses can fill up fast. We are not adverse to paying at all, but just not that much for so much time that won't be useful to us.
We just want a crash course in child care. I'm as well versed as I can be about C sections and childbirth without actually having had one yet so the birth part isn't our priority. She might also be born a bit early due to potential placenta issues so we are aware time could be a factor.

Does anyone know of any types of class in the Somerset/Dorset area that are not NCT or heavily childbirth based. As I said I'll ask my midwife but it's just one less thing to worry about.

Also remember you have MW and HV come round after the birth, you can ask them everything too if your OH responds better to a professional! Totally fair enough btw, imo.

Yes Swan first aid is great advice. I had to use the first aid course when DS had a seisure waiting for ambulance. So glad I did it. I think it was about £40 and me and DH did it when I was pregnant.

Eh Swan that's a good idea!

Do the NCT. It's a v good investment and your DH is being a bit short sighted here.

Our NCT course lasted 6 weeks. When we started I was down for a natural birth, halfway through the course I was told by a consultant I was having a planned ceasearean, before the course ended I was back to a natural birth. In the end, I had a long labour then an emergency c-section!

When I thought I was having a planned c-section the tutor sat down with me and DH and helped us write a planned c-section birth plan. We still had choices about how the c-section happened (something I wasn't told at the NHS course which I also went to). Of course we subsequently wrote a birth plan for a natural birth but the c-section plan came in useful when it came to an emergency section.

We are still friends with our NCT group. They were an I stant source of mutual support in the months I was on maternity leave. I would have been lost without them.

NHS courses have changed a lot in recent years. You use to get 12 hours worth of course where I live and only the poshest people did NCT. Due to cuts you now get one two-hour session and we didn't even get to introduce ourselves to each other, so no hope of making friends. As a result loads more people are doing NCT courses - NHS provision is disappearing.

It does depend where you live though. My SIL got a much better NHS class than me at roughly the same time.

You are going to need to stand up to your DH.

The thing about babies is that there is no right way and - crucially - every baby is different. Also you will get A LOT of conflicting and even incorrect advice.

As the babies mother you will have a stronger bond, at first at least. (This is not sexism, this is biology - the baby will have spent 9 months as part of you!)

You will have instincts about what is right for your baby that may contradict what the last professional told you - but you may be right!

Breastfeeding is a case in point. After several generations raised on formula we have become an anti breastfeeding culture. Despite the breast-is-best campaign coming across loud and clear, a lot of the professionals you will meet will actually have had very little up to date breast feeding training and often give crap advice. (Our BFing rates are amongst the lowest in the world).

One of the most important thing about establishing BFing - and most aspects of bringing up a baby IMO - is not only to learn "how it works " upfront as to know where to go for decent suppprt and help if you need it.

Google BFing cafe or BFing group for your area and see if there is anything locally. Trained peer supporters will often be in a better position to help than many medical professionals as the specialise and their training is up to date.

Cosleeping is another one. You may get a HV who tells you that cosleeping is unsafe. Your DH may tell you he doesn't want to share a bed. But actually you may find it's you who are getting up w very time the baby cries and are just shattered. You may discover - as I did - that if your baby sleeps with you, you all get more sleep. You may then discover that the NHS guidance your HV is quoting is not based on mothers sleeping with their their babies following the safe sleep guidelines, it includes all sorts of unsafe practices like falling asleep on the sofa or cosleeping if you formula feed (not bashing formula feeding - the science says cosleeping is safer if you BF).

You will find professionals disagree on things lime cosleeping. Generally I've found the sleep specialist scientists recommend it though - a good evidence-based resource on infant sleep in general is www.isisonline.org.uk

My point is not that you should BY or cosleep. My point is that - through your own experience and research (mumsnet!) You may find that what you believe to be the best thing for your baby contradicts the "professional" advice you've had as not all professionals you come across agree on this stuff - and some are very out of date (GPs often the worst! They get about half an hour on BFing at uni and what they learnt is often out of date now!)

Your DH will need to learn to trust your instincts and opinion when it comes to the baby not overrule you.

(The solution tgat workee for us for the cosleeping one was a three sided cot that attaches to your bed. Amazing invention, gave me more sleep - priceless!)

Correction! I should have said the thing about babies is that there is often no right way.

The are some safety guidelines that should be followed. Sorting out which they are from the well-meaning but often duff advice dressed up as fact is a challenge we all face!

We did spent quite a lot time on our NCT course looking st how yo look after the baby. It was all giving birth focused. I guess it depends on the tutor. At out first session she got us to draw up a list of what we wanted to know by the end of the course and she then tailored the course a bit around the list, giving more time to things we were more interested in and less to those we weren't.

Sorry - I meant it wasn't all giving birth focused!

My experience of the NHS course is that it was pretty much birth focused - discussed pain relief, interventions etc.

You could check out your local childrens centre. That's pretty much where I picked up any info I needed. Some run groups that include pregnant women (bumps to 6 months). Mine ran courses such as baby first aid, weaning, sleep, as well as the usual groups to meet other parents and entertain the kids. Of course it'll depend how much they're funding had been cut as to how much they can put on.

I felt NCT taught me only about Labour and not much about caring for a baby. It was useful for making friends but from what I understand your hospital will likely have a short course and also you can make friends through local Facebook groups and baby classes etc. I knew nothing about babies and used a book and experienced family/friends for guidance x

Unless NCT has changed you could just go to coffee mornings if they have them in your area. We had coffees once a week and 'pizza nights' about once a month where you would go round usually as a whole family and..... eat pizza.

I did an NHS course, it was three classes and one was on birth but it did cover all types.

More useful was the NHS first time parents course I did when DS was a few weeks old. We are now all going to each other’s 5th birthday parties :)

I should probably mention my DH is not financially abusive controlling person who tells me what I can and can't do. We were expecting to both be working through this pregnancy and now I can't he is just needing to re adjust his plans a bit and its worrying him I think. We have always paid our own way other than household bills, unless it is a present for the other, split meals etc. He isn't controlling, but he is used to doing what he wants with his leftover income (as am I) and having to provide 100% for me whilst pregnant and buying all the baby stuff has just come as a little bit of a shock. He is a saver though, he doesn't go and buy lots of boy toys etc he saves like a demon and works so hard.
We are first time parents so we don't know anything except what is written on the NCT website, when it said 2 thirds is labour stuff his brain just did the maths and decided it wasn't the optimal use of that much money. For that much he would rather do as a PP said and hire a private midwife to teach us personally for a few hours.
If I insisted then he would do it, but he would be more stressed and agitated about it. He is highly logical, almost to a fault, everything has to make sense to him. That's why I'm worried about him and the baby, babies don't always make sense and he needs instructions to follow.

That's why I'm worried about him and the baby, babies don't always make sense and he needs instructions to follow.

I think you're right to be worried - not in a grave concern kind of way! But as in something to be aware of and keep an eye on.

Rigidly trying to follow instructions on how to look after your baby instead of following your instincts and responding to your baby's cues can lead to post natal depression. (I am not exaggerating!).

But it's not as simple as saying don't follow instructions - some people do find them helpful.

Take the books that promote routines for example. Some people find them reassuring and helpful and like having a routine to follow. Many who try to stick to them when it doesn't suit their baby find themselves anxious, stressed and full of worry and hardly leaving the house! (You can't train a baby to fit in to a routine if it really doesn't suit them - that way madness lies) There was research on this recently - I'll see if I can find a link.

The best selling baby books tend to be those that give very direct instructions - they appeal to people like your DH who like certainty. But they tend not to be written by actual experts (as in with professional qualifications) and often the advice goes against up to date evidence based advice. The popular routine books can mess w8th breastfeeding for example.

The key might be to work with your DH's wish for professional advice and find a book written by someone with relevant qualifications who stresses the importance of listening to a mother's instincts. I'll see if I can think of any.

I'm not saying not to seek out a guide to those early weeks and months - I read loads and found some of them useful.

Just be cautious of his streak to want to follow instructions and don't let him try to encourage you to follow anything that doesn't feel right for you or you baby

Here's an article on some very recent research on how baby books can make you miserable!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2017/oct/02/new-mothers-baby-advice-books-harm-any-worth-reading

I would suggest reading several 'baby books' then forget what half of each says, just take a rough average of what is said, concentrating on points where they say the same things.
Babies are resilient little creatures and once they get going they will let you know what they want.
One good reason to go to 'baby groups' is to allay some fears. You might think your baby is doing 'weird stuff' but when you see them with other babies you probably find they all do it.

I hoping to be BF, that's the idea, but I want to be able to express so he can do feeds when I'm knackered etc. When I brought this up he said 'how do you know how much to give them? You can measure it once expressed but you can't tell an amount as they breastfeed' I realised I didn't know the answer.
I'm a lot more easy going and willing to trust my instincts, and I have younger siblings so I have some idea about it all, but he honestly has no clue. And some stuff I just know but have trouble explaining.
A few questions have been.
How warm does reheated milk have to be?
How hot is too hot for a bath?
How do you know when they are unhappy or just need feeding?
I'm sure I'll be fine with all those things and a quick Google/trust my instinct. I don't know if all first time fathers feel like this and he is just a bit more open about it, but he is so scared of doing something wrong and hurting her, he feels safe with instructions. I'm thinking about typing some basics up and running them past my midwife and then saying she gave them to me (with her permission obviously) and saying it's not the only way to do things but it's a good start.
He is an intelligent man but something about caring for a tiny human has brought him to his knees!

The whole thing about breastfeeding is not to worry about quantities, you judge how well they're feeding by the output (wet/dirty nappies) and how they're growing e.g. putting weight on roughly following a centile line on the growth chart.

He sounds like his response to worrying about the baby arriving is to try and plan and control the situation with precise instructions. It might be worth gently reminding him every now and then that babies don't follow instructions and aren't controllable! Also, that all new parents feel like they don't know what they're doing, and we all learn as we go.

Seven weeks in with DC1 here.

How warm does reheated milk have to be?

We tend to go for room temperature. I’m trying to get her used to colder and colder milk, so we’re fine without warming facilities.

How hot is too hot for a bath?

Stick your elbow/wrist in. Slightly above lukewarm is fine.

How do you know when they are unhappy or just need feeding?

At some point you start to distinguish hungry cries from other cries. Until then, I’d always try offering a breast in the first place.

You can ask anything on here. Someone will help. If you want something practical to read, I’ve found “Your baby: Week by week” very pragmatic, though I’ve heard others complain about content of the later chapters.

OP PP is right, nothing is ‘measurable’ with a baby.

When breastfeeding, the only indicator that baby is getting enough milk is wet/dirty nappies and putting on weight. Babies feed 24/7 when they’re tiny (google fourth trimester, human babies are all born prematurely and would like to be cuddled up a few weeks longer).

I’m still worried that your DH is going to have a rude awakening when a little baby arrives and doesn’t ‘follow the plan’.

With the comment about growth charts (presumably in baby's little red book).
When my DC was a baby it was not acknowledged that the growth chart was based on bottle fed babies and that BF babies might not 'follow' the graph. Hopefully this has either been corrected now or the MW /HV will advise.
DC spent a while in hospital and first shift sister (chief) said how much expressed BF milk was 'expected' for a feed. Quite concerning that after several days, new shift sister came in and recalculated and proclaimed it should have been twice as much. This does not make new mothers calm and confident, so question everything you are unsure about.

For a long time now the growth charts in the baby's red book are based on normal growth for breast fed babies. It will state this clearly at the top of the chart in case you're not sure.

If you're stuck in hospital having to express for some reason (baby in NICU/SCBU or other issues) then the midwives will have amounts of expressed milk they want to get into your baby. This is a hospital feeding schedule to make sure your baby recovers from whatever the issue is, and doesn't represent normal feeding. The reason that amounts are recalculated on a hospital feeding schedule are because they are based on weight. So after a few days your baby should be heavier and so need more milk. It's only worth worrying about expressing and amounts if you need to because you're stuck in hospital or you can't directly breastfeed for some reason.

If you want to express at home, for your partner to do a feed, you should probably wait until your supply has settled down at around 6 weeks. Then I would express for a week or so before you start, to build up a bank of milk in the freezer, then you won't be under pressure to express later on.

Second the suggestions for a baby first aid course. Also might be worth both of you doing some reading about breastfeeding - what behaviour is normal, how to reassure yourself that baby is getting enough, where to turn for help etc. See if there's a local breastfeeding cafe/group/La Leche League group nearby - often you can go to meetings before the baby arrives and chat to mums to get tips.

Our NCT class had one session on caring for the baby, so I can see why in your situation it might not be worthwhile.

Just finished our NCT course and we know we’re having a caesarean. I still found it very useful and ELCS were covered. I think it was very useful xx

Our NCT class leader asked us what wanted to know, and all the women said they are most worried about the part where we have to take care of babies! So after learning about childbirth we did a bit of childcare and practice how to lift the baby, change a nappy, sleeping with baby. It was quite basic, more for our peace of mind. I think you can learn plenty online, on YouTube. I also did an NHS antenatal class that was exactly like the NCT one but compressed 2 days into 4 hours, and was entirely about childbirth.

I agree, I was scared to begin with but you figure out as you go and it's just gaining confidence. You just need to know how to feed and change a nappy, both of which the midwives will show you. I watched the midwives to see how the different ways to hold baby and burp them, watched (and still watching!) other mums too. They also helped us put baby in the car seat. We didn't bathe baby for the first month, by which time we'd had lots of health visitor visits and opportunity to ask questions.