Beyond despiar

[Sleeplessinnorthlondon]

32 weeks today and feel as if only responsible thing to do is find the bravery to end it. So, so, so convinced have harmed this child with my mood and weakness in being able to control that mood or making the wrong choice in not taking ads in case they hurt him, NHS told me can't help me, credit cards for private support maxed and in any case limit to how helpful that is anyway, feel like worst most useless person alive and just can't believe how far I've let this go. Feel so so sorry for this poor little boy and so desperate. Living with parents now who are so kind but broken hearted by me, not actually going to do anything to end it as would push them and dh over the edge but really feels like should. Can't be honest with anyone in rl about this as there's nothing they can say and so just venting here. Want to crawl away somewhere to hide forever or just die, never felt so stupid and worthless and alone.

Hi Sleepless. I'm so sorry that you are feeling bad again. Try to remember that this is your illness talking. It doesn't make your fears real. Maybe try looking back to some of your old posts when you were feeling more positive and remember that you will feel better again.

I know this has been said, but it's worth repeating. You haven't harmed your baby. Babies are born under all sorts of circumstances all over the world and go on to thrive. You know you are not well, so put your trust in the GP who told you your baby would be fine.

I drank with both of mine before I found out I was pregnant and I was incredibly stressed during my first pregnancy. I was being badly bullied at work and remember even having chest pains at one point. I cried almost every day and was so miserable. My DS is such an amazing happy little boy. Nothing wrong with him at all. He's bright and sunny and enjoys everything.

You will be ok. You will feel better. Go to A&E if you feel you can't cope. I said before that this is not a straight road. Your recovery will have its ups and its downs. That's how it works. You are having a down at the moment, but it's temporary. You will be ok.

So sorry to hear you haven't been getting any useful support and that you're still feeling this way. You're doing so well and while it's great that you say you wouldn't consider acting on your most negative thoughrs out of consideration for your parents it must be so hard to be feeling that way.

I'd agree with others and say you really should try the ADs, they may well give you the lift you need to get you through the next few weeks - and hopefully beyond. At this stage there's going to be so little effect on your baby and potentially such a positive effect on you! They do take a few weeks to start working so I'd thoroughly recommend getting on them as soon as possible to at least give them a go for a few weeks.

I don't know if this has been mentioned or discussed in any of your other threads but lots of what you describe sound like symptoms of OCD. It can cause all the intrusive thoughts you're having about having maybe harmed your baby (which is so, so unlikely but your mind is telling you repeatedly that it is). OCD is often overlooked or not recognised but there is support available - and it's more common than you'd think to develop it while pregnant or just after giving birth.

Sorry that I don't have any solutions but please keep posting and sharing your thoughts with us, and remember how well you're doing. A few months ago would you have thought you'd get to this stage? Your baby is very lucky to have you as a mum - you're a true fighter even if it's hard to see that right now.

Thinking of you.

You haven't hurt him. You've hurt yourself through repeated and constant anxiety and worry. There's a difference. Your body is transferring your desire to help yourself (which you need) to a desire to undo nebulous harm to your baby (which you likely haven't inflicted anyhow). Plenty of mothers have been suicidal during pregnancy and had children who were happy and bright.

What will it take for you to understand that your baby is not harmed? This is your baby--how he arrives is how he arrives. There's no elevated amazing special plane where if you'd eaten nothing but organic kale and had nothing but raspberry leaf tea to drink, had done pregnancy yoga every day, etc., your kid would suddenly be superhuman. Your baby is a baby, and he will be fine. How long will you assume that he has been harmed? What would convince you that he's okay? Will every cry when he's a newborn mean to you "oh, maybe this cry wouldn't have happened if I hadn't been so sad in pregnancy?"

Point blank: How healthy and happy does this baby need to be before you would drop the idea of "I've harmed him"? If there's no response your child could possibly give you, nothing that would convince you otherwise, you have to understand that this is an irrational and unfounded fear. If there IS something he can do to let you know he's okay after being born, decide on what that thing is NOW, and write. it. down. Stick to it. If he does that thing, you calmly repeat to yourself that he did it and that he's okay.

Thank you all so so much for your support. I am seeing someone at uclh next week (see them every three weeks) and will talk through all these suggestions. In answer to what will calm me I think just seeing that he is able to be happy so maybe some shared smiles?! Read over doctors' advice which wrote down for myself: Key messages: Baby NOT being affected - cortisol / cortisone has to be extreme to be impactful if it even ever is, my profile not relevant in any way to studies ive read about this, quote "simply not analogous." She is very confident placenta protecting and we would know if my placenta ineffective but as baby growing and scans good clear it is ok. Therefore child at no greater risk than any other and if does have problem could not have been caused by me. Said had no knowledge of any medical facility in which pregnant women had insight to fetal development and all anxiety. Not worried about kid. Said plan was to enjoy next few weeks and line up ads to dose up on from birth as quite poss this could continue but should abate in three months max after with meds and support. If needed dose incompatible with breastfeeding priority def sanity and formula over bf and insanity. We know enough about all these issues to be as confident on this as anything in medical stuff ie not 100% but v confident. Just need to keep reading over this and reminding myself every pregnancy carries risk and if something is wrong not my fault however much feels like it is and care for him. Lemon - your story is so sad to read as so familiar but really gives me
Hope, thank you!!!!!

Glad you're feeling better today. I'm also 32 weeks today and have been suffering extreme anxiety and low mood for this pregnancy. I'm taking 40mg Citalopram along with the occasional diazepam. I've been told the whole way through that the risks to baby are minimal, and the risks of me not taking anything are greater. And my pregnancy is high risk anyway.

Hi Sleepless - so sorry you are struggling once more, you have been so strong battling this and working to get the support you need - it sounds like you have the HCPs at uclh have a useful perspective.

I can't remember if anyone has suggested you contact PANDAS - they provide support for women with ante and postnatal depression. Perhaps it might be worth giving them a call www.pandasfoundation.org.uk/how-we-can-help.html

Flambola- so sorry to hear that - but glad you're getting help. What did they say risks of not taking would be? Pandas have been kind but only do groups when have to be at work so not been able to go along. Thanks for suggestions! Am thinking about the ads just think have got this far.... Maybe only five or so weeks to go by which time they might have only just kicked in and I would have worried all the time about the risks of them before they did?

I'm pleased it gives you hope Sleepless, bit it's no sadder than millions of stories from mums of healthy happy babies. In fact it's a lot happier than millions too.

I have a friend who escaped from persecution with her family when she was 9. Her mum was heavily pregnant at the time. Their story would make you . It was horrific and I don't know how they got through, but all 4 kids got born and grew up just the same. Happy and healthy. And so will yours.

Smiles and giggles and first words and steps will all come when they come and you will delight in them. Your pregnancy is only a small part of your experience as a mum, although it feels like everything now.

A few weeks more brave sleepless.

Flambola I remember your story. It's good to see you back

I have bipolar disorder, I took medication, I had severe anxiety, I smoked during early-mid pregnancy (I was in denial about pregnancy), I am obese and here he is.

He is healthy, so happy, so utterly adored.

This is the most gorgeous gorgeous message - thank you! Obviously stupid bloody mind now saying "yeah but that won't be you"... Going to be totally honest about biggest fear which is that doctors all bluffing or being nice to me when say I've not put my baby at risk as no way of ever providing otherwise so not kind to... Dh thinks this is nuts as doctors not in business of "being nice" and says they'd being pushing drugs more if worried but actually not sure that's true as they're not risk free... Also can't see how they'd know baby not at risk as hard to measure and then study risk of antenatal anxiety at which point dh points out that they wouldn't advise on issues they didn't know about if they didn't know and both gps and psychs will have seen lots and lots of cases like mine which turned out fine etc.... Just scared he'll have something which maybe he would have always had but will always believe my fault... Going to work on this as best I can with cbt techniques as in can't control release thought etc but that's what I keep coming back to, esp when I can feel my tummy churning and just think this MUST be affecting him!! Do you all REALLY think doctors being honest when say baby not at any more risk than any other?! If so why all the warnings on NHS Tommys etc about avoiding stress in pregnancy?! Dh says because constant extreme stress poss problematic or leads to boozing other dangerous stuff etc whereas mine generally moderate with peaks of extreme every few days so warnings not relevant... In truth so tired and lost perspective on this that not sure what to believe. Do you think same risk as anyone else really really sounds plausible so anything that does happen not my fault for not managing this all better?

Hi Sleepless, I've followed your progress and although I don't know you I am so proud of how far you have come. You can make it all the way. As others say, you have such a short time left of being pregnant, and then your baby will be with you.

In terms of statistics about the impact mothers have on babies, what is MASSIVELY more important than cortisol during pregnancy (which as you know is not 100% proven and as your doctor said would need to be completely extreme), is how they are treated in their first year of life. You are clearly so full of love for the baby already, it is the root of your fears about harming him. This tells me that you are already a fantastic mother (although you need to give yourself a break!).

When the baby arrives (it will be so soon!), that is the really important bit- all the kisses, cuddles and love will be a hundred times more important to his happiness and development. Your stress and fears now are affecting you most of all. The best way to help your baby is by getting the support you need, to try and enjoy these short final weeks, and planning how you will spend all your time when he arrives just smothering him in kisses and adoration.

Thank you! Think need to remember only horrific part of each day and only really really low every few days and psych said this combined with fact generally sleeping and eating ok meant placenta would be able to keep him protected from cortisol as opposed to if it was constant - you sound like you know your stuff on all this does that sound right? Thank you

Yes it does.
I think it is incredibly easy to forget that being a mother doesn't start when they're born, it begins once you realise your importance to them during pregnancy, and this can be overwhelming. It then becomes easy to lose perspective.
As I said, the way you will care for and love your baby once he is with you is immensely more impactful on his health and happiness than brief and minor elevated cortisol during pregnancy. So much brain development happens AFTER birth, and every time you hug, kiss or just gaze into his eyes you will be making the bond between your stronger and building up his security and happiness. Focus on that- he is well protected and cushioned inside you right now by your amazing uterus and placenta system; once he arrives and is in your arms, it will all be completely in your control, and you will be able to see how much he loves you from the first moment.
Keep going x

Thank you!!! Means so much. Have no clue about any of this and all I read scares me so try not to read anything. How do you know so much?! Feel totally ill informed! X

It's kind of harsh but doctors generally prioritise the health of the baby over the mother during pregnancy. They wouldn't lie to you to make you feel better. If they were worried, they would tell you.

I think you're right :) although, what would I then be able to do? Pretty clear no real support in my area to access, but suppose uclh would have been more worried maybe and made more regular appts if thought at risk. That makes more sense. Thank you!!!

Sorry, I meant worried about your baby's health rather than yours. You are getting rubbish support for your mental health :(

No no I'm sorry I understood what you meant more meant that if they were worried am not sure what they could do as not like could order me to kick booze or fags or lose weight or whatever they thought I needed to do and as limited services for mental health might not be able to refer so maybe seemed kinder to just lie all ok... But just really hope not how doctors think!!

sleepless you have done so well to get this far and you are nearly there darling. It doesn't surprise me that the NHS don't have the funding to help you. It seems everything is geared towards post natal depression and far less is heard of antenatal depression. We are all expected to be glowing I assume!!!

Please keep talking and just take it day by day. I am sure that once you see your little boy many of your current anxieties will melt away and hopefully you will feel more confident to take ADs at that point if you want them.

I've only ever lurked on your threads but I've read every one. I'm a nurse myself and I think it's shocking that there are no to little resources out there to help you. There must be someone on here who knows your area and what is out there. The doctors won't bluff you or be nice for the hell of it. We have to be totally transparent now in our care (stems from the Francis report). You are doing so well, keep going, you're nearly there.

Sleepless, you've mentioned Barnet before - not sure exactly where you are and no doubt you've seen all of these before but in case they're of any help to you for peer or professional support:

cocoonfamilysupport.org/ - postnatal support but may offer support for you while you're pregnant as well

www.deconstructing-mummy.blogspot.co.uk/

www.samaritans.org/branches/north-london-samaritans-incorporating-enfield-haringey-and-barnet-samaritans

www.netmums.com/barnet/local/view/support-groups/antenatal-postnatal-support/mummys-together - again might be most suitable after birth but perhaps worth an email to see if they're still running and whether they have any expecting mums in their group

Thanks for these links and to all of you for just being so so kind - really appreciate it! Mum lending some money so can keep on with cbt til birth and hope that will help. Thank you thank you thank you for support x

You need to move to where I am! Support here has been fantastic.

Risks to me are basically not making it through this pregnancy at all, or having a breakdown or something. Which is why I think you should take anti-depressants. Honestly, I've been carefully monitored throughout this pregnancy and the baby is doing marvellously.

cersei your little one is beautiful!

And thanks Bif