EARLY PREGNANCY AND LOW HCG LEVEL - PLEASE HELP

[missnatalie]

hi,

i am approx 4 weeks (last period was 17/10/06) and have had a brownish stringy discharge that is sometimes red, since last night. i went to a&e and they found that the hcg level is low. dr said that at 4 weeks it should be around 1000 but mine is 120. ive got to go back to the hospital in 48hrs to see if the level has doubled. this is my 1st pregnancy and i am really worried. has anyone else been in this situation? or has anyone got any advise that they could give me? thanks xxx

Great news!

Don't get too worried, that's just happened to a friend of mine, she had very low hcg levels like you and is now 23 weeks pg with a healthy baby. They still don't know the cause though.

actually that doubling in 48 hours is actually a bit of a red herring... an increase of 66% over two days is consistent with a normal pregnancy and as i recall something like 10% of normal pregnancies don't even conform to that stereotype.

i'm glad it looks good for you, however if i was you i would ask for more hcgs to be taken just to be super-sure. Serial hcgs are what we are looking for, not just two...

you've probably already discussed an ectopic pregnancy with your doctors and they've ruled it out, which would be great. (obvioulsy i only know what you've written here). but if they haven't mentioned this to you i'd say it's worth raising and asking for another BetaHCG test. that's if you are sure of your dates, of course. mind you even having said that you could have ovulated later than usual and your figures would be fine. but the brown bleeding you describe is a wee bit of a worry, as it would often be symptomatic of an ectopic pregnancy. (what that means, by the way, is that the wee baby didn't quite make it to the womb and is in your fallopian tube). i am NOT saying this to panic you, but just so you can ask the docs.

and having said all that, my dd's hcgs nowhere near doubled, going from 36 to 52 to 82 (three days later and it was a bank holiday) then 140 and then 360, so they can behave very erratically indeed in the early stages. dd is sleeping soundly in her cot right now, i am very glad to say...

so i know this is a bummer, but i would ask them about it. the good news is that you don't have any pain and you do have one rather nice doubled hcg result. it's just if it were me i'd want another done just to be on the safe side, and maybe a vaginal ultrasound done a wee bit earlier than the 20th.

can't express how happy i will be to hear that the docs have been through all of this with you and that i am talking out of my arse. i'm sure i am, you know, but i just wanted you to be safe if not.

Hi AitchTwoOh, i have discussed an ectopic with my doctor which has now been ruled out. The problem with me getting more tests is that the originals were done up north whilst i was at my mums and i live down in the midlands. Even though the hospital up north has confirmed my pregnancy, my gp still hasnt and wont do anything until the results come back wich is tomorrow. I think its pathetic to be honest but thats the good old nhs. When i go for results im going to tell him about what has happened over the weekend and ask him to refer me to the epu down here.

Do you or anyone else know when my pregnancy symptoms will start. The only symptom that ive got is that i can not stop burping. Ive also noticed that my stomach is bloated. I can no longer fasten my jeans!! xx

oh that is good. (unless they ruled it out on the basis of one doubled figure, in which case that's not best practice).
sounds like a pain in the neck with your gp... you do know, don't you, that you don't have to be referred to the EPU? if you want to go and you have a reason to worry, such as pain or bleeding, then you shold phone them and use it as a drop-in. good luck, natalie, i hope things are easier for you now.
(as for pregnancy symptoms... everybody's different, but the indigestion and bloating are common. )

congrats on the positive outcome missnatalie

my sister had no sypmtoms of pregnancy at all...except for the rather obvious swelling of the tummy in later pregnancy lol. with my second pregnancy, I had no symptoms until around 7-8 weeks.

good luck and i hope everything goes well for you

im back to square one again. in the early hours of thursday morning i bleed red blood for around 10mins. this really freaked me out and i went to a&e. drs said there wasnt much they could do but it is a good sign that the bleeding has stopped. theyve booked me in for a scan on tuesday afternoon. yesterday i bleed again red blood for the whole day. it wasnt heavy and was only there when i wiped. the bleeding stopped late lastnight. ive got up this morning and the blood blood has now gone back to brown. i have poned the epu but they wernt that helpful really. they said that the good thing is that i havnt lost any clots (not yet anyway)and that i just have to wait to see the outcome of the scan.

all this waiting is driving me mad. i just want to know what is going on. i need to know either way!!

some women bleed on and off for the first few weeks of pregnancy, without any indication why. Sometimes it can continue throughout the entire pregnancy. If you are going to miscarry, sadly, there is nothing you can do, except wait it out. Your HCG levels have been rising so that is good and the bleeding is intermittent and their are no clots......it is unfortunately a waiting game....and at 5 weeks pregnant..there is not a lot you can do but wait....xx it is certainly distressing and horrible..if you had a scan, there would not be much to see. heartbeat tends to be visible at 7 + .....sorry you are having a rough time.x

Thinking positive thoughts for you Natalie xx

try to stay positive with ds i bled from 6-15 weeks and again 19-26 weeks. sometimes it was heavy, others just spotting. the important thing is everyones different. good luck hug for you

thanks lulumama

i am just so worried. i know that this may sound terrible but if i am going to miscarry i just want it over. i feel so alone. im finding it difficult to speak to my other half at the moment. hes convinced that nothing is wrong and that everything will be ok but i feel completly the opposite. im sat her crying as i type. i know theres nothing that i can do but i cant bear it anymore. ive wanted a baby for so long. i never thought that anything like this would happen. im making myself worse by looking up bleeding in pregnancy on the net. there are so many different stories. some good, some bad. this is such a horrible time xxx

thanks everyone. im trying to think positive, i really am but i just have this gut feeling that all is not good xxx

it doesn;t sound awful. it sounds perfectly normal in your situation. i had a similar experience in my first pregnancy..which did go to term...nothing to be done at this stage...except wait ..which is awful and frustrating..the EPU cannot do anything except scan you , which is fine, but won;t predict the outcome at this stage..

Hi I know i'm coming in late but I just wanted you to know. In May I was a week late so I did a pg test. I didn't know if I was seeing things or not so I checked with someone in work. She told me she thought they was a line there but arranged a blood test to be sure (benefits of being a nurse) The level was 13.3. I should have been 5 weeks. Over the next few days it did increase. But I was always a few weeks behind what i thought I was. Unfortunately this preg m/c but I think it was more I did to much heavy stuff than a prob with the baby.

i am so sorry to bother you all again but i need to ask...

i was searching the net earlier and came across a statement from some woman who said that the best way to find out if im having a miscarrige is to do another pregnancy test. if the line is lighter, then the HCG will be lower and therfor i would be having a miscarrige.

so what did i go and do. yes i went to the chemist and bought another test. they didnt have the 1st responce that ive already used 4 times with this pregnancy, so i got a predictor. ive weed on the stick and the result HAS come back with a very faint positive. do you think that woman right? am i having a miscarrige? ive got to wait until tuesday for my scan. im completly going out of my mind!!

i'm pretty sure that advice you read is bollocks. even if you got a test that came from the same batch and the same factory, they could have absorbed different amounts of the hcg reactant so would give you different lines. and you didn't even use the same brand... i'd forget about this latest test. all it means is that you are still pregnant, which is a good thing.

listen, i know you're going to think that i'm being a pain in the arse, but can you remind me what the docs did to rule out ectopic pregnancy? it's highly unlikely that it is ectopic (of course everyone's hoping that everything's going to be fine for you) but i'm curious to know what they did to check for ectopic. did they scan you vaginally to check for free fluid in your tubes? are they just using two beta hcg tests to rule it out?

bear in mind that you don't have any pain, so that makes it less likely (although i never had any pain with mine) but you are bleeding brown and bright red which is consistent with ectopic pregnancy (and miscarriage and loads of utterly, blissfully healthy pregnancies - god it's so confusing, isn't it?)

sorry to bang on about this, and feel free to ignore me, but as you can imagine because of my experiences i am a worrier about this sort of thing .

thanks for replying to me, i know its late. when i started with the brown discharge on the saturday b4 last i had a slight pain on my left side. when i went to the hospital the 1st dr just said "oh yes your pregnancy is ectopic we'll have to remove it" as you can imagine i was totally freaked out.she didnt even examine me she just went off the symptoms that i gave her.my mum was with me. she ended up arguing with the dr and asked for a 2nd opinion. a gyne dr then can to see me. she did a internal on me (no scan) and said that she doesnt see any reason for it to be an ectopic. an appt was made for me at the epu where they did the HCG test but they only did one which suprised me. nurse sai there was no need to do more.

thats when i went home to the midlands. i started with the red blood early hours of thursday morning and then went to a&e. it was the dr in a&e who has booked me in for a scan on tuesday.

ive had the red blood now on and off since then. its not heavy and theres no clots. since yesterday evening though i have had a slight pain but this time on my right side. but its only there when i stand up. would this be a sign of an ectopic?

well this is the pain in the ass thing... it could be a sign of an ectopic, a miscarriage or a perfectly healthy pregnancy. to give you an idea of how awkward these little babies can be... i had two ectopics, one had doubling hcgs, one didn't. no pain really with either but a few wee cramps. bleeding with one, but not the other... blah blah blah.

the pregnancy which resulted in my lovely daughter had hcgs that didn't even get close to doubling, bleeding and agonising pains... so was most typical of ectopic pregnancy and yet was absolutely fine.

so it's impossible to say, you see?

if you want my absolute best and most hard-nosed advice, i'd say that on the basis of one hcg doubled and no scan, you can't rule out an ectopic. i'm so sorry to tell you that.

i'm not a doctor but it is an area i know a lot about. the first doctor you saw was an absolute shit by the way and was in no position to make that diagnosis. the second doctor, gyne or no, is not in a position to rule it out... i never had any pain on internals. plus, to be honest if it was ectopic it could be in a tube, on your cornua, on your ovary, basically anywhere in your abdomen, so it's just stupid to think that them examining you manually will be conclusive. it makes me quite cross to think they have been treating you like this, it's torture for you i know...

often people describe the bleeding from ectopics as 'prune juice' (although in my case it was bright red and only brown in my healthy pregnancy - see how bloody confusing it is?)

god, i'm so sorry to worry you further, becasue i know how AWFUL it is to be in that place where you don't know if you are going to be pregnant for the next day, week, or nine months.

but i don't think that you are being very well looked after by your hospital, and if it was me i would be asking for a scan tomorrow. tell them you are having pains (exaggerate if necessary) and tell them about the bleeding. that way you will have a much better idea of the state of play by tomorrow, another day of worry and wondering isn't acceptable.

if your levels were 226 on tuesday they should be, say 500 by thurs/fri and over 1000 by tomorrow. 1000 is the golden figure that they can really start to see things using a vaginal scan. you need to insist on a vaginal scan, by the way...

oh missnatalie, i've been where you've been three times, and i know it's absolute hell. i'm so sorry if i'm frightening you, but i want to be honest.

remember, the pregnancy that was most like an ectopic turned out to be my beautiful baby. if i hadn't stuck to my guns with that pregnancy and made them wait she wouldn't be here now... that's how clear-cut it was that it was an ectopic pregnancy... so there is LOTS of hope for you. it's not over til it's over, but you need to demand good care in the meantime.

(listen, if by some horrible unlikely chance it is ectopic, don't let them operate until you've asked them about methotrexate. come back and i'll help you. but i don't have any real reason to think it is, really, i just want to be careful and sure... )

aitch...what a star....you are so kind to take the time to post that.... missnatalie....i can;t add anything to what aitch has said..except fingers crossed for good news....xxx

thank you fo being so honest with me aitch.

i am so sorry to hear what you went through. its terrible.

this baby making game can be so emotionaly painful. i never even thought of the things that could go wrong.

hospitals really do piss me off. its like they dont give a damn about pregnancy unless your 14 weeks or over.

im not too sure if the scan that im having is a normal scan or vaginal. ive had a look at the piece of scrap paper that the dr wrote the appt on. i cant really make out what it says apart from 2.30pm. if its a normal scan would they still be able to see if its ectopic?

what is methotraxate? xxx

it's kind of the other way around with the scans... thinking positively at hcgs of 1000 or over they should be able to see a foetal sac in the womb with a vaginal scan. that would be brilliant, obviously.

if, say you have hcgs of 1000 and over (which we actually don't know because they only took one meaningful hcg figure) and they can't see anything in the womb then that is not brilliant but not conclusively dreadful either, i should say.

i've heard tell of women getting to 3000 and beyond before anythign can be seen, because scanning equipment varies wildly across regions, so the whole thing is pretty hairy to say the least.

i'd be asking for a vaginal scan (not as bad as it sounds) as it is more powerful and is more likely to clear matters up for you. if they can't see anything in the womb then they should check for free fluid around your tubes as that can indicate ectopic activity. if they do see a sac in the womb ask them how they can be sure it isn't a pseudosac (a nasty little trick that the body plays very infrequently) and make sure they check the area around your tubes anyway.

and methotrexate is a drug which can be administered by injection and it basically 'dissolves' the pregnancy. grim, i know. but it does mean not having an operation and the thinking is that at least then you've got two tubes left. of course what you can't know for a while is what kind of condition your tube is left in... i can tell you more about it if it gets to that. which i am glad to say it hasn't, remember...

thanks for your condolences, it was awful at the time and i needed to grieve and grieve, but it can't happen 'for the first time' ever again and for that i am grateful, because not knowing what would happen to me was the worst torture. i feel for you, really i do...

oh, and for the record in all three hospitals that i went to the equipment for vaginal scanning was right beside the normal scanning stuff, so i don't think asking for it is a big deal.

ive just phoned the epu to ask if its a vaginal or normal scan that im having tomorrow. the lady on the phone was very harsh to say the least. she asked me what colour the blood is. which i told her red. she then replied with "oh well you will have to wait until tomorrow, i cant tell you over the phone what kind of scan your having you just going to have to wait". i never expected for that to be her reaction. i wansnt quick enough. is should have given her a mouthful back but i was full of tears and just wanted to get off the phone.

thank you so much for helping me through this. its torture!!

im finding it even harder as this is my 1st pregnancy, im only 23 and my mum and other family live over 100 miles away.

im really hoping that everything is ok and my pregnancy isnt ectopic (fingers crossed). speaking to you though has made me more prepared for what could happen.

im also worried that i should be 6 weeks tomorrow but i havnt got any morning sickness or tiredness yet. is this normal?

my scan is at 2.30pm so this time tomorrow i should know either way (fingers crossed).

im hoping for a good outcome but i THINK im also prepared for the worst. its out of my hands. all i can do is hope.

missnatalie, I can't believe they would be so insensitive, don't spare your tears on stupid ignorant women on the phone.
I hope everything goes well for you tommorrow, I'm keeping fingers and toes crossed for you.
Lots of Hugs
xxx

stupid bitch. forget about her, she's not worth your energy.
just try and welcome this baby into your heart, whatever else happens is out of your hands, like you say.
i am hoping so hard for a brilliant outcome, and of course i can tell you from my own experience that there is every chance that it's all fine. so say hello to your baby, welcome him or her into your family because whatever happens from here on in, that little life will always be a part of you... i really do know that now.