Confusion over baby's position...

[Bellyrub1980]

I'm only 35 weeks and realise the baby has time to move but...

At 27 weeks I had a growth scan which showed a breech baby. I feel the baby wriggle and kick a lot but I haven't felt any big swooshing movements or felt it move around into a head down position. I still feel pressure up under my ribs, it feels like a head to me (although I realise I don't really have any idea how a head would feel compared to a bum). And I still feel kicks way down low in my pelvis. I never feel kicks above my belly button. Basically everything feels exactly how it did at my growth scan when she was breech.

The midwife palpated my tummy for about 10 seconds today and concluded that the head was down. She said the feet were on one side at the top, the complete opposite side and end to where I feel kicks. I was amazed, I've been so convinced she is breech. Is what I'm feeling so unreliable??

I'm not particularly bothered I suppose, as I know she can still move but....

1. How accurate can their palpation really be? She was so quick!
2. Can the baby turn from breech to head down without you feeling it?
3. Where would you expect the kicks to be if the baby was head down?
4. Can I request a positioning scan even if the midwives are convinced the baby is head down?

Midwives are well-used to telling the difference between a head and a bum, so you can be pretty confident that the midwife is probably right. No, you wouldn't feel a 'big whoosh' when they turn around. DS2 was the wriggliest baby when he was inside and between weeks 35 and birth was transverse, breech, back to transverse, head down, transverse...it all just felt like a lot of wriggling! The low-down 'kicks' you could be feeling may be hands and elbows, remember. Baby's movements aren't just from the legs. I'm not sure that you could request a positional scan. Maybe get your midwife to explain what she's palpating at your next visit?

Some MW/Drs are really good at palpating and telling how far along you are and the position of the baby. I have had four babies and have never been able to determine which bit is bit.

Yes baby can turn from breech to head down without you feeling it, more than likely she turned when you were asleep. From experience when they are lying across you would feel it more

Kicks can be anywhere when head down as they are often folded over so kicks can be directed at your back where they aren't felt much, your front or your ribs. Some kicks are huge and some are little so it is variabl how much you would feel

You can request one but not sure how it works with potential breech babies

Ok so that's good to hear. I don't want to be a 'difficult' patient but wondering if the baby is breech is the last thing I want going into labour. I'll try and make sure she spends a bit more time explaining her reasoning next time, just to put my mind at rest!

In the mean time, if I do all those exercises which help a breech baby to turn head down could they also turn a head down baby breech?! Or will it just reinforce the head down position?

Sadly no, they don't always get it right. At least that was my experience anyway. Like you I only had kicks very low down (tmi but often right into my foof ) throughout my pregnancy, never ever did I have any higher up. I had movement near my ribs but it was only ever side to side (like baby turning his head side to side). Each time I went to the midwife I expressed my concerns but kept being told baby was head down & that the low down kicks I was feeling was probably his hands. I wasnt convinced but being an inexperienced FTM I trusted their judgement rather than my own gut feeling.

Finally at 38 weeks saw a senior midwife who immediately said she suspected baby was breech. Was 39 wks before hospital could fit me in for a scan which confirmed it, & was then given option of ecv & immediate induction, or elcs. I chose elcs & ds was born later that week.

Obviously this isnt the case for most people, but it can happen.

This time around baby is head down & kicks are on my side or up towards my ribs - feels completely different to last time.

Your baby still has plenty of time to turn & websites like spinning babies - sorry cant do link - have lots of useful tips on how to help baby get into best position. If midwife is concerned re position they should rescan you at 36 weeks. If like me they dont scan you but you still feel like movement is all down low, I would say trust your instinct & contact your midwife again. Good luck!

Midwives can be hit or miss in my experience. It took a scan at 33 wks for something else entirely for this breech baby to be spotted. Its still breech now at almost 37 weeks. I feel movement all over seems to me! But distinctly, high up kicks - easily confused with a head down feet up position. Its a frank breech though, so both feet and head are up!

You do have time for baby to turn. And if your baby is currently breech and what you are feeling low down are kicks, then unlike me you probably have a flex or footling breech - I understand these are easier to turn than frank breech.

The spinning babies site does say if you think your baby is no longer breech, not to do the inversion (i think its that move...) as you may tilt a head out of your pelvis when you actually want it to engage. The other exercises are supposed to be ok regardless.

Definitely as some pps said, ask midwife to talk you through next time, and if still worried, push for a positional scan. Better to appear bolshy than go into labour with an unexpected breech! But hopefully midwife is right nonetheless or if not, that baby turns. You might or might not feel a whoosh turn sensation, some say they felt it turn, others say not, so its no guarantee.

Good luck! I'm looking at an ECV in a week and a bit, but being a frank breech i'm not terribly hopeful, we'll see!

My real gut instinct is that I haven't felt anything other than dull pressure above my belly button. I really feel like her head is under my right rib cage. On my left, below my waist I can feel firm kicks. I'm not sure when I feel hands though, so it's impossible to be sure, about this. I've just assumed the kicks are so strong they must be feet.And like the others have said, if the baby is all curled up her feet could be near enough where the baby's head is anyway.

It's just odd that it feels no different to how it felt when we knew it was breech on the growth scan.

So shall I do the spinning babies exercises anyway? Just to be on the safe side? Or can they turn the baby from a head-down position to breech accidentally?

Thank you pinkteapots! That clarifies what I can do regarding the exercises.

Good luck with the EVC, hope all goes well.

I'm seeing the midwife again when I'm 36+5 so hopefully all will come clear then.

I guess women do give birth to breech babies. It's just is rather not have any doubt in my mind before hand. I guess I could pay for a scan if they don't want to do one... Can you do that??

You could pay for a scan i'm sure, but you shouldnt really have to. Do you see any hcps other than that particular midwife? Not to be critical because she may be quite right, but you are worried about something and a second opinion might be nice. If it feels tje same now as when the baby was breech before, and your instinct says its breech, i'd ask for a scan to be sure. Puts yourmind at rest.

Read up on the spinning babies site re breech, its got plenty of info. Its crap as a website, rubbish to navigate, but good content...

Ok will do, I'll also try out that belly mapping thing! I've had the same midwife every appointment so far, but I will be a more assertive about my concerns next time. She is incredibly rushed and at the appointment today it didn't seem worth pressing the issue as she said the baby may well turn again. We'll see! In the mean time I'll spend a load of time on my hands and knees!! Thanks for your reply.

I'm sure midwife would be happy to let another midwife/dr confirm position if you ask. If there's still any doubt, I think it would be reasonable to ask of a scan.

Mine did this last appointment incidentally (without me asking), she just said she just likes to before a home birth which is what I'm planning, even if she's confident, she prefers to let another midwife have a quick feel. So she just called another one in to double check. This was my 38 week appt.

I also think at 35 weeks a breech baby is not very relevant as they won't be in final position by then, but by next appointment it's a fair question.

Hi Bellyrub, I am the same as you-35 weeks! I just wanted to tell you about my PFB who they said was head down until the end, so I never had a scan to check or anything. I went into labour at home, my waters went and I went into hospital expecting the whole 'normal' birthing thing, but as soon as I arrived the midwife examined me to see how many centimetres I was and straight away said she thought she felt a bum and not a head. They brought in one of those portable scan machines to verify, and then within half an hour I was heading to theatre for a EMCS! Although it wasn't ideal, and not what I'd planned, it was all very calm and easy as they spotted it on first examination. I was only in the hospital for an hour before meeting my DD. What I'm saying is that (as long as you're not going for a home birth) it's highly unlikely you would have to give birth vaginally to a breech baby. Most hospitals don't recommend it and would whip you in for a Emcs. I think that is probably the usual procedure unless they have an expert on hand who is experienced in delivering breech babies.

I am so paranoid about this next babies position btw! Every low down kick I feel makes me doubt my midwife even though she is certain this one is the right way round! I have felt more kicks to the side this time around though.. Best of luck and keep us posted!

My baby IS head down (scan and palpations confirm) but I feel kick-like sensations. I asked my MW and she said the baby was elbowing me! She could feel 'her little sharp elbow' and showed me. Could that be it?
She also turned without me feeling a thing!

The reason I had a scan was the baby seemed to be tiny/short at term. Turned out she had her legs stuck out to the side, so was kicking me on a level with my belly button. However her head is down (engaged now) and she is petite (polite for shortarse mum = shortarse kid) rather than medically tiny,

I asked for a quick scan/second opinion and my hospital obliged but I had to sit and wait 2 hours or so... may be worth asking, if just for peace of mind?

Just to reassure you that baby's can turn without you noticing, IwS confirmed breech from about 17wks seen by many mw and had slate 4d scan with bum down, I did all the positions and at 36wks mw suspected baby may have moved, she couldn't say for sure and I was skeptical as baby had pretty much been breech from as far back as they checked but at the scan baby had moved, I never felt a thing and it was pretty late on! Once I knew shed turned I never did any positions (I was thoroughly fed up of them by that point though) I never felt any movement high up even after the turn, just to the side of my belly button really but when baby is head down its feet arnt right up, it's in like a curl so bum and head are the two ends, feet in the middle regardless of which way

I had a scan at 32 weeks where the baby was breech. The midwife palpated the same day and insisted that baby was head down and that the sonographer had made a mistake
Your post describes exactly how I felt - pressure under my ribs that I was sure was a head but as it was my first baby I thought the midwife must be right and didn't trust my instinct.
I ended up being induced and having an EMCS but came very close to having a general anaesthetic so DH would have missed birth of DS. Luckily it was all fine.
Another mum in my NCT group had an EMCS due to undiagnosed breech. I don't think it's that uncommon. If I were you I would push for another scan, or get one done privately if you can afford it as an elective c section is much safer than an emergency one.