The Berry-Copter!!!

[Bunnygirlie]

The Berry thread - berries (over 30s) pregnant with first baby after trying 12+ months.

Support, advice and hand holding from the grads.

Don't forget to CLENCH!

Good to see positive scan news!
On NCT I'd recommend trying to find a couple who've done the course with the facilitator who'd be doing your course - they vary a lot. Ours wasn't great at picking up the mood of the group; there were a few bits which left some people more scared than before and she didn't respond to that. But we met a great group of people and it was good to go through the different issues together.

On labour, I had a very medicalised birth, exactly the sort of birth NCT portrays as bad (pre-eclampsia, induction, cascade of interventions, EMCS etc). But you know, it was absolutely fine and I've found the recovery remarkably easy - first 24 hours was tough but I was moving fairly freely within days and nearly 4 weeks on I feel pretty good - breastfeeding well established, walked for an hour with the baby in a sling yesterday. So I'd say try not to get hung up on the idea of a birth needing to go a particular way - it's perfectly possible for a very medicalised birth to be absolutely fine, and all the breathing/exercising still come in handy.

Hi all - on a quick lunch break - thanks feather :) My scan is 11am tomorrow and I'll probably be back at work early afternoon - assuming all is well - so will update then. Don't have any reason to think anything is wrong but nervous even so!

jess I may pick your brains about pre-eclampsia at some point as it's one of the things my kidney condition puts me at risk of. I'm diligently monitoring my BP every week so hopefully it will stay within the normal range - though I'm aware it probably wouldn't go up in any case till rather later.

I had my first 'Lazy Daisy' birthing class last night - sort of birthing advice and yoga - it was quite good. I was embarrassed at how hard it was to support myself on hands and knees for quarter of an hour - better get used to that, I suppose!!

Good luck this morning rp. Not that you need it! Will
Check in later to see how you go xx

Good luck RP! Thinking of you! X

Good luck rp!

Just checking for news! Hope all ok RP. X

Hi, so, feeling a bit down/ deflated.

The scan showed no serious defects but the dino apparently has a kidney abnormality - hydronephrosis - which is the same that I have.

The thing is, the sonographer seemed a bit crap. He clearly hadn't read my notes, as when I said I had the same, he was quite surprised. He also didn't say anything about prognosis. Now, because I've had this condition for awhile, I know it's often a paediatric condition which can mean surgery in infancy. He obviously didn't really know about that.

He was also crap at explaining - he kept saying "now our cut-off is a 7, and you're an 8". I was like "7 what, is this some type of scale??" By looking at the screen I could see he must mean millimetres (as in, the pelvis of the kidney measured 8mm and should have been under 7) but this wasn't remotely clear from what he actually said.

He also said he wasn't sure if it was a boy or girl - which is fine, I know they can't always tell - but then he started saying he thought it was a boy whose testes hadn't descended properly. He said this was "a bit unusual" but didn't mark it up as an abnormality on the sheet. So I don't know if I'm carrying a boy with a genital defect, or if it's something that will correct itself, or he just didn't know.

Also-also, I am currently 20+4 but whenever he did a measurement it flashed up onscreen as measuring 21w 2d or 3d. So I thought maybe it was quite a big baby, as apparently measuring a week ahead, but he didn't seem to understand what I was asking when I mentioned it. He just said "look around, everyone's different, some people are bigger than others, don't worry about it"

However, having said all that, the dino is alive, moving, and there are no abnormalities of heart, brain, spine, so afaik it's a totally viable and healthy pg, just with this question mark over the kidneys.

I have to go back at 33w for another scan, so hopefully things will be clearer then. Also seeing the consultant again in 10 days so might ask for some more info.

Sorry to whinge I know I should just be grateful to have a baby, but I had just hoped to be waved off with a cheery "everything's fine" and it's a bit shit that there might be a problem.

RP I'm so sorry - sounds like you had a rubbish sonographer. Definitely line up all your questions to ask the consultant. But yay for a healthy little bean! Was he/she kicking away?
Remember that there's still a pretty big chance of measurement error at this point - especially with a rubbish sonographer! - and if it's a mm one way or the other, it could well all be fine.
Sorry you didn't get a straightforward 'all clear' but it sounds like all the big things are totally fine.

Hey rp sorry to hear you've had such a stressful scan. I can understand why you're so stressed. Firstly, on the kidney condition can you not ask to speak to a consultant sooner than waiting 10 days as it sounds like the sonographer really couldn't answer the questions you asked leaving you probably feeling more confused.

Secondly, don't worry about measuring ahead at this stage. I had exactly the same thing happen to me at my 20 w scan and was told I was going to have a big baby which worried me as I'd been on steroids as part of my ivf treatment which caused my blood sugar to go sky high for a whole.

Anyway, I've had a number of scans since and most of my measurements have been average for gestation. When I asked about the big baby comment all the sonographers since have expressed surprise that the sonographer would make that comment at a 20 week scan as things can change so much and baby will go through growth spurts at different points. As long as you are within range of normal measurements then try not to worry. If there was any concern about size of baby they would have referred you for a growth scan.

Me again! Remembering when I was looking at measurements online (and I've looked at a lot!) measuring ahead by 5/6 days really isn't a lot. 4/5 weeks ahead would be more of a concern I believe.

Sorry about the shit experience RP. your sonographer sounds rubbish. I have to say, I think mine was too. Just incapable of giving me any information about these placenta issues, which of course leaves you to worry and google. I spoke to my midwife but didn't really feel reassured as I didn't think her knowledge was specific enough. I have an appointment with a doctor at the hospital they did the scan next week, to hopefully get a bit more info. I echo the idea of trying to see your consultant sooner. Try and get some answers. Glad to hear the brain heart spine all looked ok. Hopefully what they have found is treatable or wasn't measured properly by the sonographer so won't show again on later scans. I'm sorry you didn't get the all clear. I felt a bit deflated after our scan too.

Good news overall, RP, but sorry about the bad experience, I think I read a thread recently somewhere on mumsnet where the baby was healthy but the sonographer's communication skills left a lot to be desired. Remember that a basic sonographer is just an expert on scanning, they have no medical knowledge beyond anatomy and the physics of ultrasound. My DH (non-medical) made the same mistake when he started asking the sonographer at our 8 week scan about my morning sickness! I hope you get the answers you need from your consultant, or they refer you to a fetal medicine specialist if required.

And I would have thought it's normal at 20 weeks for the testes not to have reached the scrotum yet!

This website agrees: www.embryology.ch/anglais/ugenital/diffmorpho04.html

rp sorry you had a shitty sonographer! All sounds promising and really like he had no idea. I think you should ask your midwife for a rescan with someone else soon or go for a private scan. It's not fair for you to have to wait and the last thing you need to be is stressed.

All will be fine and I'm sure baby Dino is perfect. xxx

Hi all, thanks for the cheery words :)

Yeah have done a bit of looking into the kidney condition, and it's properly called renal pelvic dilation (RPD), is more common in boys, and can be down to the baby having a full bladder, a developmental abnormality which will correct itself by birth, or a structural defect potentially requiring surgery. Apparently it spontaneously resolves in about 2/3 of cases, and of the further third who have the defect at birth, in most babies it again gets better on its own by a few months of age, leaving only a small percentage requiring a paediatric urology referral.

Of course, this is all slightly complicated that I myself am in that small percentage who do need surgery, so who knows if that makes the chances worse - but am choosing not to think about that now!

lady thanks :) what annoyed me is that the NHS leaflets I found online - one of which was a briefing for sonographers - said this is one of the most common defects found at the foetal anomaly scan, and that women should have the stats thoroughly explained to them, and be given a leaflet. He didn't do any of that. He just kind of shrugged. I didn't expect him to be a consultant urologist or anything, but I think it's a bit off that he couldn't even give out basic info as to whether this was a serious birth defect or not. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd have thought they should have some basic stats or at least written info on the most common "bad news" they need to give people. He didn't even know I was seeing the consultant as he hadn't read my notes so as far as he was concerned, what he was telling me was the sum total of the info I had and I wouldn't be back seeing anyone for 13 weeks.

Never mind though! The consultant I see now is a foetal maternal medicine specialist (the urologist has parked me till after birth) and only runs a clinic on Mondays so will have to wait till the 29th. That's fine though.

I'll tell you what really annoyed me though.... Throughout he referred to the dino as "Junior". Now that is a sacking offence

*renal pelvic dilatation, sodding autocorrect!

www.liverpoolwomens.nhs.uk/Library/our_services/maternity/FMU/Renal_Pelvis_Dilation.pdf

I have just found this ^ and am so upset. It says that RPD can be associated with Downs Syndrome and women should have a follow up scan done by a doctor 7-14 days after RPD is first diagnosed. They are leaving me till 33w. Can this be right? How can it differ so much between trusts?

Oh RP just seen your other thread so had to head on over with a hand to hold. Please speak to your midwife for more advice and what a tit of a sonographer, I would be putting in a complaint (once you gave sorted things out) hugs xxx

Thanks Bunny xx I am going to ring antenatal on Monday and ask to speak to a MW. I really hope that leaflet is somehow wrong. DH has just said he would want to consider late term abortion or even adoption if the baby had Downs. I know it's really really unlikely even based on the info on that site but I really can't think straight now, I know I'm probably blowing it up but it's so upsetting to even think about.

rp as tempting as it may be to research everything online, I would stop until you had some solid facts from a chat to a midwife and another scan next week. It is your right to demand you are seen and cared for properly. Kick up a stink with the midwife on Monday and go from there. And try not to project too far into the future as you don't have solid facts to base it on right now. Big Berrie hug to you. X

Ps. Didn't mean to sound so harsh - sorry. Just furious with your sonographer on your behalf. xx

No you are totally right Feather! Although I have been googling and have found another leaflet saying that whilst this condition is a soft marker for Downs, it's not a strong enough one that they re evaluate your age related risk based solely on having it.

If that makes sense the way I typed it

Did you have the downs testing at 12 weeks? I think you need to kick some ass at your hospital. Try and stay off google till you have some answers xxx

Off to the airport lovelies. Will check in when I can, but otherwise, see you in a couple of weeks. rp really hope you get some answers soon.