How to broach the subject of childcare with MIL?

[ElleDubloo]

I have a brilliant MIL who I get on with swimmingly. She's delighted I'm pregnant and really excited about having her first grandchild. We live 25 mins away from her (we're actually currently living at her house, because we're having work done to our bathroom). We might move in with her more permanently when I'm due, to have her help with the baby in the early days.

I'd like to broach the subject of childcare, but I'm not sure how to do it sensitively, and without looking like I'm taking advantage of her. TBH, I'd like to take 6 months maternity leave and then return to work full-time, and it would be amazing if she would volunteer to take on all the childcare after that. It's a big ask. She has a part-time job as a teacher, which she has hinted that she doesn't enjoy very much.

Is it reasonable for me to ask her whether she'd like to quit her job so that I can go back to work?
How should we recompense her for the loss of earnings? Could we offer to pay her (because we'd rather pay her than pay a childminder we don't know) but would she take offense?

Would be great to get everyone's thoughts on this :)

My lovely MIL looks after my son one day a week and has done since he was one. She is fit, in her 60s and they have a fantastic relationship. On occasion, she looks after him for two days a week. For that time she is lively, energetic and I mostly hear the pair of them roaring with laughter... Oh,and she/my DH come from a culture that stresses family looking after family as you mention...

But she finds any more than two days too tiring and we are careful not to abuse her energy and goodwill. Seriously, i advise that you think in terms of nanny for 4 days, MIL for one day and for providing any emergency cover.

Thanks for all the posts overnight.

When we decided to have a baby, it was in the context of:
a) being newly married and seeing lots of babies on our honeymoon
b) feeling broody
c) my husband saying that his mother would be delighted to take on childcare
d) the possibility that I could go part-time and train towards a career with better work/life balance

a) and b) were probably premature. But it's too late now! Hey ho, I still like babies :)

c) as we've mentioned already, I need to wait till MIL offers in person before counting on it.

d) I'm having second thoughts about. I've wanted to be an Oncologist since I was old enough to know about careers (almost impossible to work less-than-full-time, I've been told). But maybe it's time to be open to other options.

I'm not sure how we can get a full-time nanny, as we live in a small flat, and we can't afford to move. It might mean I'll need to work part-time for a while. I'll need to ask DH if he can do something about his career too, as nowadays he's coming home after midnight almost every day.

You can have a live out nanny.

If your MIL is nearby then she can come by and take over from the nanny on days when you or DH are working late.

Treaclepot - very perceptive. We're Chinese. My own parents live 3 hours away but they said they will have the kids stay with them full-time if we're struggling (obviously that's not our preferred solution!) and parts of the extended family on my DH's side are living 3 generations under one roof (grandparents looking after the kids, the middle generation bringing in the income, etc). MIL and I (and the rest of the family) are all Christians and I think my parents in law are fairly progressive. She's a very capable woman but not overbearing. LOL obviously I really admire her at the moment, but like other people have said, we might fall out when things get more stressful with the baby. Thanks for your advice.

I've wanted to be an Oncologist since I was old enough to know about careers (almost impossible to work less-than-full-time, I've been told).

People told me it would be impossible to do core medicine part time and told me to be a GP instead. it isn't impossible. It's just hard.

I hope that since I am doing it, it will be easier for other women in the future.

Talk to the bma - they're really helpful.

I forgot to say - congratulations on your pregnancy and I hope you are feeling ok! First trimester + hospital medicine is a pretty grim combo :)

You said your MIL works because she needs the money. Surely if she gave that up,my ou would have to pay her, thus she would have to be registered?

Weebairn - Thanks for that. I'll definitely give them a call.

OP - if approaching MIL, I'd start by asking if she'd do one or two days a week, and that you're looking at nurseries or live out nannies or child minders (that might be a good solution if you need longer hours than nurseries will offer but have a small flat, as they'd look after your DC in their home) for the other days. Perhaps say you'd love her imput in looking at those.

She might offer to do the childcare fulltime if she'd like to do that, but part time might suit her better as she'd have time to do her own thing, and while babies are easy enough, toddlers are tiring, I'm mid 30s and I find running around after DC1 (4 now) exhausting, and it's been knackering fr the last 2 years!

Plus if you already have other childcare in place part time if it doesn't work out with MIL doing care (if she has a different way of doing things you don't like or her health deteriates later on) it's easier to take that full time.

oh and re your DH's career, I konw several woman who work in corporate law who have flexible working arrangements, some go in early and leave early to do pick up, or have set days working from home etc, if your DH could also get a flexible arrangement (if not part time) that would help you have more childcare options.

TwoThreeFourSix - That seems like the ideal solution. So happy for you :) Hope we can work out something similar.

Mary - Sounds good. I agree, starting with 1 or 2 days with the option of doing more, is better than starting full-time and then needing to cut down.

He told me that he only knows one woman who did that! And she had to leave the firm because it wasn't working Methinks he might be keeping stuff to himself.

I also know several lawyers, and accountants, and [insert profession of choice here] who have been able to negotiate flexible hours.

The vast majority, as Mary says, start early and finish early. Although there's no reason why it couldn't go the other way - start a little late and finish as late as you need to to get the job done a little late.

(Ragwort - when I fell pregnant with unplanned DS1, DH was in the process of moving jobs from one of the Big 4 accountancy firms into industry. So for the next 4 years, he worked hard but other than overseas trips was largely available for childcare. And, TBF to DH, if I tell him that I can't be home for 6pm on a particular date then he does his best to rearrange his diary to accommodate me. I just wish that I wasn't the default childcare. Anyhow, a couple of years ago he moved back into the profession, and it was clear that while he was establishing himself in his new firm it made sense for me to take up any slack. Now he's up for an important promotion so, even though he's now firmly established I still have to take up any slack. I have a feeling that he now assumes that I always will, as his client work always takes priority over my an internal role. My viewpoint is that although my long term projects are easier to balance than client projects, the partners to whom I answer are just as demanding as clients if not more so.)

Just chipping in to agree with what Cinnabar and Weebairn re men who "can't".

I am very very lucky - the only silver lining that came out of a hellish year of health problems last year was my husband went from the "Oh, my career is all-or-nothing" to having some eye opening conversations with female Heads of Chambers and judges, and realising there was scope. Men just don't talk about it so many don't even realise... or don't want to. Women always talk about it (e.g. when I say "I run xyz in large inner city schools..." men will mention toughness, behaviour, good solid pension etc'. Women go "Oh that will be useful when you have kids - holiday childcare." Yes. That's why I choose to work in such a rough and tumble, competitive world, marching around like Mrs Trunchbull. ). It's a silent assumption and some men are quite happy with it!

...as for culture. Half Asian, Half Irish. If this pregnancy goes well it will be 1st grandchild. I'm terrified the entire extended family will move into my 2 bed terrace house!

PS. I don't look like Mrs Trunchbull and have never hoid a kid over a wall by their pigtails staff on the other hand...

Elle, I would not necessarily assume you husband is holding stuff back. I used to work in that field (now do something related). Some firms are more enlightended than others, and some practice areas are easier than others. my perspective is that, although it is improving, flexible working is often permitted but significantly slows promotion becuase there are certain parts of the job that dont fit easily with flexible working and therefore those on flexible working often do not develop the full range of skills required for promoition as quickly. That is not to say he should not ask (I think he should) but should do so with his eyes open. The more people who do it, the quicker the requirements for promotion will change.
I am a bit surprised at your financial situation given your jobs, but no doubt there are reasons.
I agree with others who have said you you should not ask MIL to do all the hours, particularly since you need more than full time. In fact, even if she asks I would be minded to say no becuase it is just not feasible long term. There is a reaosn why it is not easy to find paid childcare to do those kind of wrap around hours.

OP, I know someone who faced the same choice as you between GP and Oncology. She eventually plumped for GP.

Your DH could consider a move to a different kind of law too?

I have to leave the office at 4:30 to be home at 6 when our nanny finishes for the day. I try very hard not to accept meetings or calls after that time (although occasionally they are clearly unavoidable - meetings with our UK managing partner spring to mind - in which case I either arrange for DH to be home for 6, or ask our nanny to work late).

When I decline meeting/call requests, I never explain that the reason is childcare. I simply call the organiser and explain that I have prior commitment (which they inevitably assume is a previously arranged work-related meeting) but that [alternative date/time] would be convenient.

I also make myself available for calls after 8pm when the boys are in bed, although not many people take me up on that!

I have never once had pushback.

It's a very good solution for us but there is need for give and take. It's also quite hard having a grandparent in such a prominent role. Fortunately for me, my parents let me decide for things like food etc. They don't impose what they think. They will suggest stuff but leave it up to me to decide.

We've been doing it 2 years now and it's allowed me to get a much-wanted/deserved promotion. However after DC2 I'm going to go for a role with fewer hours (I'm currently out the house 8.30am - 7.30pm at least).

Also I do get jealous as they have such wonderful times together - and I know all about them! Whereas if we had a nanny, she'd tell me bits but not all of it. It is very hard sitting in an office, having come out of a horrible, stressful meeting, only to be greeted with a text saying "in X park in the beautiful sunshine. DS is on the swings - pure bliss!"

to be fair OP, all the woman I know who've got the flexible arrangements in law careers had their first DCs in their mid-late 30s, it could be your DH is a good decade younger and being more junior, be less valuable to the firm so they are less likely to say yes out of fear of him walking out...

That said, I know several men who've got arrive early, leave early arrangements and arrive late (after 9:30am), leave late arrangements - if both parents get this, it makes drop off and pick ups from childcare far easier. Working from home one day a week is also a regular arrangement a lot of men and woman have, this is particularly helpful if a grandparent is doing childcare on those days - gives Granny a bit of a break too.

Thing is, your DH can ask, they can say no, but like your MIL, there's no harm in asking.

And he can ask by way of a formal flexible working request which they have an obligation to consider and follow due process, not just a "I wonder if.." Conversation (though depending on his set up he may like to have one of those as well)

Elle - I wonder how many years PQE your husband is? TBH, he has probably made things more difficult for himself if you are only late 20s, so I am guessing, what, around 4 years PQE. There's a good reason that a lot of women leave it until 6-8 years PQE minimum to have kids- you are that bit more senior and able to say "I will deal with this remotely tonight." But then, people obviously make decisions about when to have children for lots of reasons, and career timing is only one of them.

There is also a big element that his choice of firm will affect his flexibility. If he's routinely home after midnight (not just on one big deal once in a while) I'm guessing magic circle or close to it? If work/life balance matters to him, he could move to firms a step down. He won't be walking out the door at 5.30, but he would be less routinely gone all night, or until the early hours. Which obviously makes a difference.

Even if his current firm is a tough one for flexibility and he doesn't want to leave, he needs to open his eyes. If you both want a career then you both need to give. I have seen soooo many couples where the wife ends up giving up her career and bitter because the husband's career has continued with no change. He needs areas that are his job, no questions, to understand the strains on you. For example, two days a week when relieving the nanny is his responsibility. Where staying late means making alternative arrangements. Too many couples default to the woman having to always be the one to juggle and the husband just the back up who might sometimes pick up the slack. It's not just about the time - it's about the responsibility.

I'm not sure if I missed something in your withdrawn post, but I don't quite understand your financial situation either, unless you are supporting other relatives or have some other major financial commitment. I'm guessing, barring that, that your choice has been to live in a pretty expensive bit of London. You might find that you have to do what we pretty much all do - move further out/to a less desirable area to get more space. Even if that means renting out a flat you currently own and renting a family house.

Oh yes, on the 'one woman had it and it didn't work comment', there are as many flexible working patterns as people. One pattern not working means nada. Especially if what we are talking about is fixed hours or part time days, as opposed to other forms of flexibility.

For example, corporate law is notoriously afternoon/evening loaded. I saw lots of corporate colleagues who would be working into the night, then come 10am wandering around the office, slightly dazed from lack of sleep, drinking coffee, filling in timesheets and waiting for responses from all and sundry. I often thought that one viable option for them would be a later start each day (obviously depending on how that fitted with their partner's working hours).

I have seen soooo many couples where the wife ends up giving up her career and bitter because the husband's career has continued with no change. He needs areas that are his job, no questions, to understand the strains on you. For example, two days a week when relieving the nanny is his responsibility. Where staying late means making alternative arrangements.

^^ this.