Glass of wine on Chrismas day.

[LucyB1]

Hi, I'm going to be 12+5 on Christmas day and i am absolutely GAGGING for a glass of red. Is that really bad cause I'm not quite out of the first trimester??

Flat I am very sorry to hear of your miscarriages. Fwiw, in my first pregnancy I didn't realise I was pregnant for eight weeks. In that time I had been on a night out where I drank four or five cocktails and a holiday to France where I had plenty of wine, rare steak and unpasteurized cheese. That foetus is now a healthy 3yo. In my second pregnancy, I followed all the guidelines, was a healthier weight, didn't drink - and I miscarried. Now pregnant again with another holiday-conceived baby. We all search for reasons why these sad things happen but unfortunately they sometimes just do, despite our best efforts.

Like Chunderella if and when I can stomach a sip or two of wine I don't worry about having one. I noticed a couple of posters on this thread who I have seen on the HG thread, all of us defending the occasional drink - maybe we feel strongly because for us pregnancy is a time when many of our enjoyments are curtailed! (I am much better at 22wks and able to contemplate a greater range of food and drink!)

OK Penguin - You are referring to the nofas uk site and I agree their style is not mine either but I still think they do have valuable things to say.

However do have a look at the work of Professor Peter Hepper, from Queen's University, Belfast and Director of the Wellcome Fetal Behaviour Research Unit - Summary of his "startle reflex" work on the birth psychology link above,Link to all his research references here

You could always get a non alcoholic wine, that way you get the taste without the guilt & can drink a whole bottle

"There are many, many things that haven't been proven to be zero harm. We don't generally work on the assumption that zero harm has to be proved. If it did, we would all give up wearing make-up, using deodorant, using toiletries, using cleaning products other than lemon juice and white vinegar... "

Penguin - I don't think your argument here applies in this case because you aren't comparing like with like. To make your argument, there would have to have been studies showing for example that applying make-up 5 times a day was definitely harmful to the fetus and we would be discussing whether just using it once a day ( or 4 times a week or whatever) was potentially harmful.

Right I haven't lost interest in this debate but I have to go and work!

No, that isn't my argument. I am treating drinking at genuinely moderate levels (1-2 units per week) as it's own behaviour. I don't think it's particularly relevant what drinking 10+ units a week does to deciding how to behave in relation to 1-2. We know that, for example, drinking 40 units a week would be a bad thing for a normal, healthy, adult female. We don't use that to inform women who want to drink 5-10 units how to behave.

In normal, everyday health advice, we tell women "drinking more than X is harmful" but we don't assume sensible drinking is. In pregnancy advice, we tell them "drinking Y is harmful, so assume all drinking is harmful".

So it isn't relevant to my example whether applying lots of make-up is a problem, because that isn't the analogy I am drawing.

yeah i've been surprised, as a big drinker ordinarily, how my 'taste' for it has effectively gone.. good work mother nature!
I'm 14 weeks and have only had half a glass of white, topped up with water- i did however enjoy it nonetheless, so i'll probably do that 4-5 times more throughout the duration of the pregnancy. No big deal surely.

When I was pregnant with DD I had a glass of champagne at every wedding we went to. Thankfully quite a few friends got married that summer...and so did Prince William, to whom I also raised a wee toast!

I had a small glass of Baileys on xmas day 2010 when I was 6 months gone. I wasn't planning on getting pissed and the glass was full of ice. If you think you can have one and not crave the bottle then go for it ;)

I had two gins last weekend and am 11 +5. The doctor said it was fine to do so. Several doctors and midwives had explained to me that the guidelines are there to stop binge drinking. The occasional glass of wine is not a problem.

My mum was told to drink Guinness every other day throughout her pregnancies with me and my two siblings. It was the government guidelines at the time. I have never been ill and were all born healthy.

I'm not sure we'd be having this debate at all if we lived in Southern Europe...one of my friends in Cyprus was told she couldn't eat salad unless it had been soaked in vinegar but could have a small glass of wine with a meal... The important thing is to be sensible and not overdo it.

And whilst I'd never ever give alcohol to a baby, didn't people used to put brandy in babies' bottles as a treatment for colic? I know we've moved on a bit since then...

Chunderella I am like that with coffee - even thinking of it makes me heave! Although I was diagnosed with HG at the start, it has become more normal morning sickness now and the severity has declined hugely, thank goodness.

I got embroiled in this thread by irritation at the parallel drawn to feeding a baby wine directly and also the ever annoying refrain of 'whycan't you just give it up for nine months?' (And what about the 14 months I spent bfing last time on top?) I think it's important that pregnant women maintain their autonomy, their right to make their own informed decisions and that they are not treated as idiots the moment they conceive. I haven't read anything on here that changes my mind on the harmlessness of the occasional glass but there has been plenty to think about.

The startle reflex scan research (see advice for midwives and birthpsychology.com/free-article/research-information-parents this link for summary.

Where is the actual study arti? This is just a press release and one of the video links doesn't work, the other is firewalled. Not that a video is a study. Also it's a study of 40 women who self-reported the amount of alcohol they drank - can't you see the problems there..?

the problem with the public health argument, aside from the fact that I'm a grown woman and deserve not to be lied to, is that quite a lot of people realise that the alcohol advice given by the NHS is bullshit.

Yes I agree - that is just the paternalistic view they have.

Spaghettinetti, remember Gripe Water? We were all given it as kids?? Well, in the 70s in Ireland we all were.. it's been banned since, quite high in alcohol apparently! 8%!! i was given it quite a bit, might explain my fondness for the grape... ha

www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/alcoholic-gripe-water-26412780.html

To those suggesting alcohol free wine, have you tried the stuff? It's disgusting. I would rather drink water, juice or squash and will do so throughout my pregnancy along with a weekly/ maybe even twice weekly glass of Sancerre or a nice Muscadet when I start to feel less nauseous.

I abstained from drinking early on with my first as I didn't feel like it but got drunk before finding out (was NYE) and had on average a drink of alcohol per week from about 18 weeks. DS walking at 10 months and vocabulary very impressive at 15 months. Doctors always commented on how alert DS was when small.

I have never been a big drinker but have always enjoyed a nice glass of wine or gin and tonic/ cocktail. The NHS advice is for those who don't know when to stop.

I don't know anyone who abstained completely when preg or breastfeeding.

yes, i had it Fiveleaves, the Torres Natureo, 0.02% or something. It was gross, really really sweet. I only did it as a decoy situation at a dinner party pre breaking the news.

The study is listed on Prof Peter Hepper's list of publications. I did link it up-thread. here 3rd one down but I've a feeling you'd have to pay for access to the full article in the journal unless you are a university or other researcher etc. Hence the summary.

I agree about the self-reporting but it is impossible to do any studies under totally controlled conditions ethically if you think about it. How else would you go about doing it? Imprison pregnant women for weeks and force feed a group a certain amount of alcohol a week whilst a control group get none?

Studies of this issue in humans can never be totally controlled but it doesn't mean the study isn't valid.

Opps sorry - 4th one down on Prof Hepper's list.

Lambrusco. 4%, so an entire bottle is only 4 units. So a single glass is negligible.

My new discovery.

Ok sorry - the actual study summarised in the birthpsychology article

Is in the journal of physiology and behaviour - the other one I linked to is later research of his.

Journal and physiology of behaviour article is here but you will have to pay unless you belong to an organisation that has already paid for access.

Oh, someone upthread mentioned drinking while breastfeeding.

I haemorrhaged very very badly during birth, and my midwife and doctor both insisted on a full pint of Guinness, and instructed Dh to feed me rare steak and a glass of red for dinner every day. This was 3.5 years ago, not 30!.

I didn't drink at all through pregnancy, just didn't feel like. Don't think an occasional drink would do any harm at all. I had morning sickness to six months though so that might be why!

I personally won't drink at all while I'm pregnant BUT I rarely drink when not pregnant so i don't miss it at all. I could kill for pate tho and I mean kill.
And on Christmas I will have a icle bit.

One glass won't harm you all in moderation.

educatingarti - the 4th one down is a different study by Hepper. And a study which doesn't cover light drinking at all (as defined by the NHS as 1-2 units per week) - it has a control (0 units), moderate drinking (5-10 units) and heavy drinking (20 units+ per week).

I've now found the abstract to the one I asked about and there is absolutely nothing about volume / no of units - it just compares alcohol drinkers with non-alcohol drinkers - a completely different impression to the one given by the article - I can't read the graph at all.

So basically - unless I'm reading it wrong (possibly), we're still waiting for evidence supporting the claim that very small amounts of alcohol (less than 2 units per week) consumed in the second and third trimester do any harm.

BTW, I'm really envious of those whose bodies / hormones put them off alcohol etc in pregnancy. The only smells I could stand during the first trimester were fresh cigarette smoke, bleach & cleaning chemicals, good red wine and esprsso!