Co sleeping and SIDS leaflet at doctors

[Rowanhart]

I was planning in co sleeping when our DD is born in three weeks.

I was at docs today waiting for whooping cough jab when saw a leaflet called Risks of co sleeping.

In it said that infant mortality due to co sleeping is high the area we live in and we should never co sleep.

Also had quotes from two mums whose babies had died due to co sleeping,

I thought it was recommended? Confused now but thinking co sleeping is a big no no...

*You posters who recommend co-sleeping, some of you'll be found on another thread tomorrow saying not to put baby to sleep on his/her belly.

You have to realise the contradiction here.*

Why is that a contradiction? My co-sleeping baby used to sleep on his side most of the time.

I also didn't drink, smoke or take drugs. DH is such a light sleeper that he wears earplugs (didn't then). I am a heavy sleeper, but wasn't when DS was in bed with us (although I sometimes pretended for nappy changes ), we lived in California so no heavy blankets and no waterbed.

Really, for us our choices would have been falling asleep while holding the baby in armchair (bad bad bad) or co-sleeping. He wouldn't/couldn't sleep any other way and would scream until he puked and then scream more.

Hopandskip - you have two risk factors then. That's OK, as long as you realise and appreciate this. Many posters on here eulogise about co-sleeping but then insist on putting babies on backs. I co-slept, with premmie boy, and he sometimes slept on belly.

I would draw posters to the MN webchat - really very excellent and addresses many points brought up here on this thread.

To quote Haycock: babies die in cots too, but in the studies conducted...., the incidence of infants dying in cots has fallen six fold since the back to sleep campaign was introduced but has only fallen by half in those bed sharing

odds ratio for bed sharing vs non-bed sharing 1.3 and 1.35 respectively.

Belly sleeping is more risky, but there is still a significant risk with co-sleeping. All I'm saying is BE AWARE.

I really don't think there is sufficient evidence to say there is a conclusively proven significance to the risk given how these studies are conducted and the differences in how individuals bed share and cosleep. Ultimately it's just not known to what extent different decisons increase or decrease SIDS risk. Even the more proven risks, such as sleeping on the tummy, were done by thousands with no ill effects. I don't think a lot of this talk of risk is always helpful. If you say it is important to be aware of the risks you are taking when they are really so tiny (vs the massive risk of cosleeping drunk on a sofa) it is just something that torments the unlucky when no one will ever, ever know if that death wouldn't have occurred elsewhere, was a virus or genetic or whatever.

When you talk about sizes of risk, the belly sleeping isn't really that risky when compared to sleeping on sofas drunk.

I co-slept with DS1 - which came as a massive surprise as I had no prior intention of so doing! - but kicked DH out into the spare bed because there just wasn't enough room for us to do it safely 3 in a bed, as far as I was concerned.
Now DS2 is 10d old, and I'm co-sleeping with him too. Both EBF.

I don't tend to move much in sleep; I don't smoke or drink or do any other drugs. I sleep with my arm out above DS2's head so I can't roll on him without dislocating my shoulder (doesn't ever happen) and I sleep under sheet and blanket, no duvet. DS2 is nowhere near the pillow and has his own cellular cotton blanket as well as coming under the main blanket if needed.
I sleep lightly anyway - he only has to snuffle and I'm awake - but I get more sleep this way than if he was anywhere else.

I commented earlier in the thread and have been watching closely but another co sleeping friend randomly emailed me this earlier. A bit of a light hearted view of co sleeping for once! Made me chuckle anyway!
m.blogher.com/dangers-cosleeping-top-10-risks-parents

It's so interesting how many people say "I didn't intend to but I did...". Same here and with dd1 I felt bad about it, like I wasn't doing it "right". By dd2, I had learned it was the only way we would all get some sleep. I think we should all talk about it more, make new mother's realise that co-sleeping isn't some beardy wierdy thing but perfectly natural and normal and basically a way to survive (eg get enough sleep) - just make sure they read the safe sleeping guidelines and hey ho away they go.
Now if anyone could tell me how to pursuade a 4yr old to sleep in her own bed....

Hi,
I've co-slept with DS since he was 5 months old and he's now 15 mo. The reason I didn't do it earlier was because the horror stories scared me so much. If I had my time again I think I'd have him in a side-car arrangement for the first few months rather than the whole separate crib. Our set-up now is that I have a double mattress and his cot-bed mattress on the floor side by side. He crawls over onto "my" bed half way through the night but has 3-6 hours by himself on the small mattress generally. Co-sleeping has saved my sanity and enabled me to function as human being. It felt like the only sane response when HVs and relatives were threatening us with "having" to do CIO. The book "Three in a Bed" helped sort my head out and work through the safety concerns. In the end, having read way too much a lot on all sorts of subjects, I decided that co-sleeping could be safe or dangerous depending on how you do it, just as swaddling and slings can be safe or dangerous. I would really urge you not to be put off too soon by scare stories and come to your own conclusions based on research.

SBx

Jakeyblueblue,

That is hysterical. I get woken between 5.30 and 6.30 every morning by being beaten over the head with Doggy, a lovely soft toy I used to be really fond of...

SBx

Reading around a bit, it's said the greatest risk of co-sleeping occurs in younger babies (2-4 months old). I did co-sleep sometimes and largely slept very lightly. I remember one instance though where I was so completely knackered I slept very deeply and DS has somehow moved into my side. He was only young so I'm still not sure how he did it. I briefly panicked before realising he was fine.

Young babies + sleep deprivation can make you much less aware of your baby than when you are basically just tired and sleeping lightly.

There IS research into shared sleeping arrangements:

nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/

You'll have to cut and paste the link. I'm on my phone.

There also don't appear to be any "official guidelines" for where your baby should sleep - as mentioned by some.

Like I said earlier, in my area we are advised how to co-sleep safely. In other areas around the country, I know that midwives and health visitors are advising against co-sleeping altogether.

There doesn't seem to be a national general consensus on it at all.

I co slept with both of mine, they used to sleep on a lambs fleece in between DH and me. Very happy times.

Of course! Really easy to bf, get sleep, obviously made sure dh didn't get too hot etc, no one was drinking/ smoking and we have a massive bed. Downside is a few years on dc still sneak in our bed:)

I would like to know the link between letting a baby usurp its father out of the marital bed and divorce....

I am convinced that co-sleeping saved my daughter's life.
When she was a few weeks old, I woke in the night with my heart racing, turned to my DD who was asleep in the crook of my arm and realised that she was not breathing. I immediately lifted her up to rouse her and blew repeatedly in her face. She started breathing again.
Whatever the arguments, I personally believe co-sleeping is safer - I need babies close enough to me when I'm asleep that I am alerted when something is wrong

sasamaxx - wow. That story made my heart racing. How terrifying - did you ever sleep again after that?

Hopandskip - you have two risk factors then.

What? Him sleeping on his side?? Me not being a heavy sleeper when he was in the bed?

*To quote Haycock: babies die in cots too, but in the studies conducted...., the incidence of infants dying in cots has fallen six fold since the back to sleep campaign was introduced but has only fallen by half in those bed sharing

odds ratio for bed sharing vs non-bed sharing 1.3 and 1.35 respectively.*

So in other words, before the back to sleep campaign, co-sleeping was safer than cot sleeping and so introducing the campaign meant that less babies died from SIDS in cots than they had previously and so it made safety strides with babies in cots.

"A new review of recent research studies shows that infants who were breastfed were about 60% less likely to die from SIDS than infants who didn't receive any breast milk." (www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/news/20110613/breastfeeding-cuts-sids-risk)

and studies show that co-sleeping dyads are more likely to breastfeed longer.

Wonder what the outcome would be if a study looked at breastfeeding and co-sleeping and sids together.

Yes, the co-sleeping + sleeping on side are two risk factors. The bit I quoted from Haycock was to show that although sleeping on back has reduced deaths a lot it didn't happen to the same degree when we look at babies co-sleeping i.e. co-sleeping is still risky. The best advice at the moment (of course, new research is done all the time) is to sleep in the same room as the baby but not in the sharing the same bed.

It wasn't considered a risk factor when my son was born. Both my kids are older now. The advice was side or back and he usually rolled to be close to his food source so it wouldn't matter where I placed him, back or side, he was coming to mama.

I don't agree that your quote means that co-sleeping is more risky because the back to sleep campaign was effective.

I am convinced that co-sleeping saved my daughter's life.
When she was a few weeks old, I woke in the night with my heart racing, turned to my DD who was asleep in the crook of my arm and realised that she was not breathing.

I am too. I woke up in a panic and heard my baby take a really big breath as I moved. I wouldn't have heard him in a cot across the room. I was never that aware of my older son in his moses basket.

Locally to me co sleeping is positively encouraged if you are breast feeding, although a lot of information is given to explain the fine line between safe and dangerous with regard to the subject.

1/ I was told that under NO circumstances should you sleep with baby on the sofa.
2/ The bed you are using should have a firm mattress.
3/ Your duvet should be no higher than your waist so it doesn't touch baby.
4/ A sheet can be higher, but not able to cover baby's shoulders or face.
5/ Baby should sleep on Mother's side of the bed - NOT between mother and father (mother is programmed to sleep lightly and wake with baby, father is not).
6/ Room should be kept at a comfortable temp so baby can't overheat (mother provides some warmth).
7/ Mother should not smoke or drink or take drugs (and father preferably)
8/ Mother shouldn't sleep with baby if over exhausted - Mother should try to nap in the day if possible - with baby, so as not to be overtired by night time. If over tired, Mother should try to nap whilst someone else is looking after baby.
9/ Mother should breastfeed on side with lower arm stretched out above baby's head so that rolling on baby is pretty much impossible if sleep overtakes mother.
10/ There should be a co-sleeping cot or a safety barrier on the side of the bed to stop baby falling out.

I have co-slept with both my dc's From birth, and it was the right thing for me (I breastfed so it was easier for the frequent night feeds), but I followed the advice to the letter, and have had no problems at all, and would do it all the same again. If you want to do it I would, but the advice is there for a reason, and I personally would never have forgiven myself if I had ignored it.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

Co slept with both of mine. First was prem. Didn't intend to but found we all slept better. Dad usually slept in spare room. Made life so much easier and they answered to cot no problem. As they were demand fed and had me close maybe they felt secure.

Good luck, my sister dissed me big time but I carried on.

Hopandskip: indeed the advice has changed. Side and prone sleeping is now discouraged.

What do you think this quote means if you don't like my understanding?: incidence of infants dying in cots has fallen six fold since the back to sleep campaign was introduced but has only fallen by half in those bed sharing.

I'm being a bit of devil's advocate today, and I co-slept too so....but your list of sensible advice Seenenoughtoknow is so long and detailed that I wonder if many people would realistically follow it, in particular point 8. People choose to co-sleep in part because they aren't getting enough sleep.

To paraquote Haycock in the Guardian link upthread, he says bf organisations are pro co-sleeping because they (in his opinion) mistakenly believe bf rates would drop if they advised otherwise.

I agree SIDS is very different from suffocation. In most Africa cultures co sleeping is a given and done as a matter of fact, but the incidents of sudden infant death are far less than in Western society. Don't know why.Manybe something else needs to be explored there.