Help please - threatened miscarriage for past 4 weeks

[ruthlouise]

Hi can anyone give us any positive outcome stories or further information?
I am currently 16 and half weeks pregnant.
My 12 week scan was all fine but 3 days later I was in A&E bleeding heavily :(
Was told there was no hope but had follow-up scan and baby was still alive but scan showed moderate bleed area. Have since had 4 more scans. Each seems to show further deterioration, by that I mean the bleed area became more extensive, leading to a collapse of the amniotic membrane around the baby. Todays scan showed blood in amniotic sac and reduced levels of amniotic fluid. Consultant says outlook is 'gloomy' but baby is still growing. Consultant also said this is vey unusual therefore difficult to give prognosis. My bleeding is much lighter as long as I rest lots. As soon as i do more (no lifting though) I have increased loss.
Please respond if you can give us any hope or have experienced sub-chorionic bleed (bleeding between the two uterine membranes), collapsed amniotic membrane or blood in amniotic fluid. Or if you experienced bleeding at this stage of pregnancy. If you had bleeding - how long did it take to resolve?
Sorry if I'm not being very clear. I've posted on a couple of other sites but got no responses which makes us feel there's not much hope.
many thanks
Ruth

Rubymummy - thanx for the welcome - u r right about the friendship and support - I've been overwhelmed.

Blueshoes - I think u r right about seeking further referral / more specialist knowledge. Depending on how the next scan goes, I think we might get a bit more 'pushy'.
Maybe TMI but we have a burning question which hasn't really been answered other than 'we just don't do that' - We wanted to know why they couldn't syringe the bleed off as its this which is compromising the baby so much by the pressure forcing the collapse of the amnion. It would be like an amniocentesis but with reduced risk as the needle wouldn't need to penetrate into the amniotic sac.

Ruthlouise,
I've just read through this thread and can see what a terrible time you've been going through. Your baby certainly sounds a survivor. I'm sure you've probably tried but are there any experts in this field that you could pay to see privately. I hope that you are resting lots and that the bleeding has slowed down.

ruthlouise, the therapy you had in mind was something that to my layperson's understanding (zilch) I had at the back of my mind.

Naturally, I can't answer your question but ... this is a very long shot. When I was pregnant with dd (who had a lot of issues on the scan), I came across a Professor Kypros Nicolaides who works in Harris Birthright Research Centre for Fetal Medicine, Kings College Hospital, South London. He is a pioneer and giant in this area of fetal medicine and therapy. If active therapy/intervention is what you are looking to explore, he is not one to shy away from that. He can give you answers, even if it is "wait and see". At least you got it coming from an authority.

If you can't get a referral, he might have a private practice. This is only a suggestion . I don't work for him BTW, but I was impressed.

Prof Nicolaides' private practice is at the Fetal Medicine Centre in London, they have a webpage if you look them up (note the American spelling of "fetal").

Hi Blueshoes and Nicola
Thanks for those details. I've used them to explore on the net a bit. There's a review on his private practice which put me off a bit - it seems to be more associated with identifying foetal abnormalities:
www.ciao.co.uk/Fetal_Medicine_Centre__Review_5394783

His work at the Kings College Hospital seems more the sort of thing we are looking for.

I am in two minds as to whether to start pushing now for referral or wait until our next appointment(week Monday), look consultant in eye and ask for an honest appraisal of my babys chances. I'm a bit limited this week as dh is working abroad all week.

ruthlouise, I hope I linked to the correct page on ciao. I was referred to Kings College Hospital by my hospital, so did not go privately. I guess private patients expect 5 star treatment since they are paying, esp if they flew thousands of miles for it. But I won't lie to you - the prof is VERY elusive. He has so many commitments. I could easily spend an entire morning in Kings' waiting room waiting to be scanned by his staff and if they felt they needed to refer to the prof, a good few hours more as his staff tried to track him down. His staff are in awe of him, he does sweep in and out. His beside manner is excellent but there are no social niceties. If he deems the scan normal, he is out of there like a shot, onto the next case. The impression I get is he has no time for normal pregnancies - far more pressing cases beckon.

Everyone wants his attention. But I have utter respect for his opinion. When you need answers, it is well worth the inconvenience.

I don't know where you live (I live in S. London) or enough about how the NHS works. But is it possible to call the hospital in the meantime to ask whether a referral to Kings is even a possibility?

Hi again blueshoes,
thanks for the advice, I've decided to call the consultants secretary and ask for a referal for a second opinion. I don't know whether they would refer to Kings as I'm about 70 miles away but thats probably one of our nearest specialist hospitals.
I don't know how long it would take to get an appointment for a 2nd opinion either - what was your experience?
I kind of feel that time is running out (not sure whether that's me being pessimistic or realistic)
X Ruth

hi ruth louise, just saw your thread and wanted to offer my sympathies again and bump this up for you.

can't imagine how your coping, have all my fingers and toes crossed for your little fighter and hope the news will be good soon, the only consoling thought i have to offer is that at least every day that he/she clings on brings you a little bit closer to the magic 24 weeks and viability.

lots of love and hugs pet, make sure you take it easy

Hi Ruthlouise and welcome to mumsnet. Although I have nothing more constructive to say, I just wanted to post for support. I had 2 mcs and both of those meant 3-4 weeks of waiting to see if things were going to be viable or not. It's nothing like your situation, but I remember how hellish the feeling of being in limbo land was. I can't begin to imagine how you must be feeling and I wish you all the best.

Ruthlouise: I am so sorry to hear what you are going throuhg. I had a huge threatened miscarraige with my 1st child although in no way as complicated as yours and had a healthy daughter. I do hope you get some aswers or at least some more constructive support medically.
Please keep posting even if it is to say how you are doing.

Mechelle xxxx

If you can get the referral, push for it to be an emergency - you can get an appointment at Kings the next day, if that works for you. After my first dodgy scan, I got a CVS done at Kings the next day. The reason why I spend so much time at Kings' waiting rooms is that all the emergency cases that are referred there just leapfrog over me, even though I might have a scheduled scan. I would never complain, having been there myself.

Please do take care of yourself. 70 miles is a long way to go in your delicate condition. And it is stressful - London, the drive, the scan, the wait. Perhaps it might be better to book the appointment for when your dh is back in the country - so at least you have his physical and emotional support. You say you feel that time is running out - but it doesn't sound like your baby will give up so easily. Every day is a victory. I wish you & bubba all the best .

Well, I contacted consultants secretary this morning and asked him to call me back - didn't expect him to call back today as he has FM clinics all day but am hopeful he will call back by end of tomorrow. Fingers crossed. btw I wouldn't attempt the drive to London myself if we get a referral (I don't like the m25 at the best of times and my sense of direction is useless!)

Thank you to everyone once again for your kind comments and words of encouragement - they are much appreciated. Will be 18 weeks tomorrow so have made some progress from the start of threatened miscarriage at 12+3.

I hadn't thought of possible viability as being as early as 24 weeks. We are worried about having a baby survive but seriously cognitively incapacitated. What are other mums experiences of very early births?

friends of ours had a baby born at 28 weeks. he spent along time in SBU but grew and developed well, he was born within a couple of weeks of my dd and by the time he was six months he was catching up on her developmentally, was on solids at the doctors suggestion and reaching the milestones of a 4 or 5 month old.

i'm afraid i don't have personal experiance of births earlier than that but at my ante-natal classes last tme we were told that at 24 weeks the baby has a 80% chance of long term survival.

i'm sure if you start a thread you'll get some more helpful advice than thet pet, and good luck

Well, no response from consultant yet.

Eve2005 - I was glad to hear of your friends little one doing so well.
The 80% chance of survival quote is worrying though - i used to live near a lady who had a baby at 28 weeks, she 'survived' but with a massive brain haemorrhage. We don't live near any of the big hospitals either and I know the neonatal care / experience of the team can make a massive difference too. I hope my baby will more than survive iyswim. I just wish the bleeding would stop.
The suggestion to start a new post re early babies is good. I think I will wait until I hopefully get a few more weeks along the line though. thanks again

i know exactly what you mean pet, all of us worry that our little ones wont have the quality of life we hope for them, i can only imagine that worry is a thousandfold over for you.

i don't know if the hospitals given you medications to take but was wondering if you've tried homeopathic remedies to slow the bleeding? they can be extremely effective, but have the benefit of being completely harmless to your baby.

if yoúr interested i could try andfind out about some that might be useful, or if you have a homeopath near you it might be worth a visit?

just checked for you, Aconitum napellus (Aconite)is one of those which can be used specifically for bleeding in pregnancy and you can get it very easily in any health shop.

Chamomilla and China officinalis are also possibilities and i know chamomilla can be very calming as well so might be worth a try.

they can't do baby any harm and you never know, placebo effect or real medicine, they might help?

Eve2005
Thank you for taking the time to identify the homeopathic remedy. I shall try to get someone to get some for me - hopefully before the weekend.

Still no response from the consultant - I think he will wait 'til I have my next scan on Monday.

You may have seen my other thread posted last night re heavy bleeding and clot. Well, I am still here this morning and think I have been feeling baby move during the night so I think I need to be positive and hope for the best and wait on Mondays scan.

Many thanks again to everyone for your kind words and support.
Ruth X

Upsetting post - sorry

Our 'threatened miscarriage' became a completed miscarriage last night. My original gut feeling was right but still we hoped....
sadly we ran out of time, the consultant never returned our calls and we never got the referral for a second opinion

We gave it our best shot but our little boy, Isaac, came into the world too soon at just 18+3 days on Friday. He was so beautiful and perfect but the haemorrhaging became so bad that he didn't have a chance and I went into labour. He only survived for 20 minutes as we watched his little heart beating but it was a precious time which we will never forget.

Thank you for all the support - it has been much appreciated
love Ruth

oh ruth, I am so sorry
There's no words are there? other than to say I'm thinking of you, and may your little angel,Isaac, rest in peace

Ruthlouise, I'm so so sorry to hear your news. You didn't deserve it. I really hope that over the coming weeks you will find it easier to bear. You, your dh and little Issac will be in my prayers.

Oh Ruthlouise I am sorry.

My thoughts and wishes are with you, your husband and of course your baby boy Issac - a beautiful name.

Take care.

I am so very sorry to read this ruthlouise, my heart goes out to you, your dh and to Isaac. xxx

Oh I am so sorry My heart goes out to you and your family. R.I.P baby Issac

i'm so sorry, take care, x.