All women to be given right to caesarean

[Sandra2011]

The NHS plans to make the operation available to healthy women capable of giving birth naturally for the first time in its history.

Although a quarter of all births are already currently carried out by caesarean, women do not have the automatic right to ask for one if there is no medical reason for it. However there have been cases where women have persuaded doctors to perform it as a matter of preference, though this has always been an exception to the rule.

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8858147/All-women-to-be-given-right-to-caesarean.html

What's your opinion?

I'm fully in favour. I don't have children but if I were in that position, I would be insisting on an elective caesarean. The thought of giving birth vaginally terrifies me and I would rather opt for the less evil route of major abdominal surgery!

I can see how women should be given the choice, but I am not very comfortable with the idea. The risks associated with having c-sections should be known before the decision is made. I find it hard to believe that someone would rather have major surgery than deliver a baby in the way their bodies were intended to. I do hope the option is made available only to women who have had problems giving birth. I realise I am talking out of my arse here....

Can't help wondering what that is likely to cost a cash-strapped NHS. It must be soooo much more than a natural delivery.

Personally, I think it should remain the exception rather than the rule. If we're going to spend money on anything it should be on dealing with the reasons why people like JosieRosie are terrified by the prospect of a perfectly natural vaginal birth.

FWIW I've had two emergency CSs, and would far rather have given birth vaginally.

I think that the problem is that people just don't have a clear idea of what having a c-section means, whereas a vaginal birth has a very vivid picture in your head.

Somehow, you need to make it clear to people that c-sections are not an easy alternative, that you'll have major abdominal surgery, and rather than a nice, relaxing recuperation that you would have if for instance you'd had your appendix out, you'll have a newborn to look after, and all the usual post-birth shenanigans but for about 6 weeks you'll be doing all of that whilst having to be very careful with any movement because of aforementioned surgery.

'If we're going to spend money on anything it should be on dealing with the reasons why people like JosieRosie are terrified by the prospect of a perfectly natural vaginal birth'

midnight, of course I do accept that it's a natural process but the loss of control and the prospect of hours of excruciating pain really would scare me stiff. I have suffered horribly painful periods in the past, where I have vomited and fainted from the pain, and I would imagine that was probably only 5% of the pain of labour and birth! Luckily for me, I'm not planning to have any children but I think that pregnant women should be given as many options as possible so they have the best chance of having a birth that they feel positive about.

JosieRosie - I'd go for the natural birth then... instead of just hours of excruciating pain you get at least a fortnight of needing painkillers, then another 4 weeks of stabbing pain when you move wrong (eg, opening the fridge) - and there's no epidurals for that unlike labour/birth!

There is a long and very interesting thread on this- Here

at ChunkyPickle - I'm sooooo glad it's all academic in my case!

12 days post my second emergency CS (entered both labours with every intention of delivering vaginally and went through the whole second second with both), I can't understand why anyone would want a C section over a vaginal/natural birth if there is no medical reason.

Today was the first day since then I have not taken any painkillers. For over a week I could barely sit up in bed to pick her up when she cried in the night. My abdomen is badly bruised and tender and will be for a while. I am only just walking about in comfort. I can't lift my toddler or push my baby in her pram. DH is helping a lot, but he will be back at work in a few days (mother and PILS all over 200 miles away and all work). I can't drive for another month, which is limiting in our rural location. I just don't understand why anyone would want to put themselves in this situation!

If NICE are going to introduce this, then there must be more education about what a CS is really like. That there is a lot more to it than just not having to push.

well I'm sure everyone will be walked through the pros and cons. Elective c-sections are much safer than emergency ones and can't really be compared.

the additional cost of a caesarian is estimated at around £800, though I'm not sure if that includes emergency ones. it's also not clear what the knock-on costs of vaginal birth are from follow on medical conditions. I had to have surgery to fix an episiotomy that surely cost the NHS more than £800. I reckon my forceps and episitomy birth cost as much as a caesarian in any case since I was prepped for either outcome in operating theatre, with a large medical staff on hand.

I think women should be encouraged to give birth naturally, similar to how BFing is encouraged over FFing. However it is still a valid option for many women.

I'd love to have an easy natural birth but because of complications in this pregnancy and my previous history I have been "granted" a planned c-section.

I really like that the choice is there for women, its high time too. I aspire to having a vaginal birth with my first baby (due in Feb) because I think that I'm designed for it but of course there could be complications etc, or someone might have a terrible phobia or have had a traumatic previous birth experience.
I think its very important that a C-Section isn't 'sold' as an easy option, I hope that there is lots of information made available to expecting mothers so they can weigh up all their options but thankfully we know have options. (Except me of course I live in Ireland so it doesn't apply)

I think the problem with C-Sections is that a lot of people see celebs having them and then walking about looking great well slept and slim a week or so later. They forget that celebs have private surgery and private expensive after care not to mention nip/tuck while they have section and nannys, chefs, personal trainers and stylists to help them look great while in reality you'll have NHS surgery NHS after care then get sent home to take care of yourself and new baby.

It seems the easy way but really it's not always

kiki, I think the idea that women who choose (or would choose) to have an elcs are doing so because of celebrities suggests you have little faith in women making educated informed choices, and is actually very insulting.

I don't mean just to pick on you, but there does seem to be an underlying attitude that a woman who chooses a homebirth is well informed and a woman who chooses a cs is not. Thankfully, NICE seem to disagree.

josierosie I've had THOSE periods and have been reassured that vaginal birth is a lot easier. The pain comes in waves, if you do find it painful, so even if it is THAT bad, you do get restpite from it. And they'll give you lovely drugs. All medical professionals I've spoken to have said I should find it easy in comparison to bad, bad period pain and refractory migraines...(sreiously, smashing my head against a wall to pain-relieve jsut for a second, bad, often for weeks at a time)
You might want to consider something like Hypnobirthing if the though of labour terrifies you. Start it nice and early in pg. I know many people that it's helped to reduce the anxiety in if nothing else. There really is not need to be afraid, and there's no reason not to feel in control, even if things aren't going as planned.

Oeisha, I always imagined that labour would be 20 times worse but I guess it makes sense that it's more manageable as the pain comes in waves, instead of being a never-ending hell The Hypnobirthing tip may come in handy for other folks on here so thanks for that!

Me too (28wks with DC1, she's trying to fight her way out my side right now), but I've figured even if it is hiedously painful, I've been there before and survived, so can go there again.
I was very sceptical about hypnobirthing, but it seems to have a lot on common with cognitive behavioural techniques, so am actually getting on ok with it. I think the name is just a little misleading...

TethHearseEnd obviously every woman you know will make an educated informed decision but i'm afraid the rest of the world is not always like that, I said a lot of people not every single person and i personally know a good few woman who say they are 'to posh to push' and would rather a section so they don't need to go through the pain. If you look in the paper you will see people making stupid uninformed decisions every day to think that every woman in the UK will make an educated uninformed choice is very naive.

Best of luck with DC1 Oeisha!

Thank you josierosie GL to any mummies to be on here too.

kiki, why so patronising? I find that really sad. How come I know some women and you know 'the rest of the world'?

If you are basing your judgement of women and their ability to make decisions about their bodies on 'looking in the paper', then I'm afraid naivety is the least of your worries.

Oeisha - just so that you're prepared, labour pains don't always come in waves. Mine did to start with but towards the end they just came one on top of another with no break inbetween. Don't want to scare you, but I do think it's best to be prepared have realistic expectations. Mine weren't terribly realistic and that made me panic a bit.

I may be in the minority here but I am completely opposed to this.

I fully understand that there are circumstances where a CS is necessary or more appropriate and I see that as acceptable medical intervention.

But to spend NHS money on a provision of major surgery (and aftercare in some cases) where it isn't a necessity is ludicrous to me.

I just don't understand why the NHS that are just about managing to cover all bases as is is, would be prepared to pump money into something that our bodies are actually designed to do

beebop yeah, I am aware that the frequency increases considerably, but am trying to stay positive. As I've said, the shitty time I've had with pain will hopefully get me through the worst of it! Plus I can always have entinox to take the edge off.

copper I'm with you on the ELCS thing. Unless there's a medical need it shouldn't be offered (I also include psychological reason here). Just not wanting a VB seems like a petty reason to undergo serious surgery. If you just don't want a VB because it's inconvenient, how the hell will you cope with an actual baby?!

I think if you are opposed to the CHOICE (i.e. likelihood is you are opposed to a c section when otherwise healthy and able to birth naturally) that's fine - give birth naturally. BUT if another woman CHOOSES to have a c section for the birth of HER child, then so be it. Why should someone else's choice affect others?

I don't agree that 'cost' can come into play unless of course you also oppose; gastric bands, sex change operations, breast enlargements and reductions, genital enlargements,cosmetic surgeries (yes, some can be on the NHS depending where you are from) because all of these are 'mainly' lifestyle choices. A gastric band ultimately reduces the size of the stomach so you eat less. (Or to put it 'cheaply' eat less!!)

Also, there are medical needs to needing c sections that may not be physically obvious. There may be a psychological issue. Not all can be resolved and the only 'choice' for these women is a route that does not interfere with their mental health and well being. These are not people who are 'too posh to push' - as described by some in the comments section of the daily mail, but simple women who have fears and phobias. You're not likely to force someone outside when they have a fear of open spaces or tease someone with a spider when they have a fear of them are you?

I agree that their should be a choice. If you don't want a c section, then don't have one! Simple! But don't force others to hold the same opinion as yourself by DENYING them a choice.

I personally have no opinion as to a c section or a natural birth, mainly because at 31 weeks with my first child, I have absolutely no idea how I will cope. I cannot (nor can anybody else) say with certainly what will happen. I bet MOST of those who had a c section didn't envisage having one - most end up that way due to complications. I have heard many, many stories about giving birth naturally and via c section. I can say, with hand on heart, no birth story has EVER been the same. Some (like my SIL) have given birth with no complications, no tearing etc, etc yet some have needed extensive stitching and in one case of a friend, reconstructive surgery. Some have healed well and quickly after a c section whereas some have taken longer and have been in more pain. It all depends on the individual.

I think with me, I can see advantages and disadvantages to both. It depends on how you rank them in your own personal life. I may need a c section and I may not. A scan will determine that. But it doesn't scare me - likewise with a natural birth. If I need a section, so be it. If I don't, then it's natural all the way. But I won't ever say NO to a c section, if at the time I feel like I'm not coping. Time will tell. I will feel that I have control if the choice is there.

Your birth is not going to be the same for everyone else. Let people make the choice that is best for THEMSELVES.

This is also being discussed in our In the News section here
HTH