Watford hospital won't tell me the sex of my baby

[PinkFondantFancy]

I understand my baby might not be lying in the right position to see the sex, I understand that they are concentrating on taking lots of important measurements, and I know it's not guaranteed to be accurate, so why can't Watford hospital treat me like an adult and if they can tell the sex of the baby during the course of the scan, tell me what it is?? Are there any good reasons for them not to? It just seems a bit petty.

x-post- I mean would Data Protection Act Subject Access Request work, rather than the tears!

"NHS trusts actively support parents to find out if their baby is disabled (because aborting disabled babies will save them lots of money in the long term in health and care costs) but make parents pay to know the sex of their baby (because it will make them money)."

One is a medical issue which could have significant impact on families, onw which provides medical knowledge in order that the hospital support the family in whatever they choose to do and help the baby should it be born.

The other is a consumer issue. Should I get a pink or blue babygro?

This is not an anomaly. You are comparing two different things. One is incredibly helpful, the other is not a medical factor.

My sonographer was very helpful in showing me all the areas of DD3's heart as she was also training a student. It was fascinating.

A friend has a boy with his heart on the wrong side of his chest. It is a life limiting condition. I doubt she gave a moment's thought to the sex of her baby when she was shown that.

The NHS is NOT free, we pay for it through our taxes. Its staff work for us, they are not there doing us a big favour for nothing.

That having been said, I think it's not the business of a sonographer to spend hours looking for the gender at the expense of other families, but quite often it is easy for them to spot it anyway, and they should be able to give that information out if requested, just as they let people have photos, with the usual caveats that it's never 100% certain. I am sure 99.999% of parents are fine about this.

Ethnicity should never be an issue.

I too think the NHS can be ridiculously and excessively patriarchal sometimes.

In Scotland we have one scan at 20 weeks due to shortage of resources to pay for it. When you go the waiting room is packed and it is literally one in, one out.

Oh for heavens sake its NOT a human rights issue.
The 20 week scan is for a specfic reason and its not to determine gender.

yes its a shame if you cant find out but you cant expect to DEMAND it thats ridiculous

I trained and worked for many years in the NHS. Which is why I think this policy is actually very discriminatory and fairly insulting to women. As a Health Professional is is ethically dubious to assume that you have the power to know best about whether women should know the sex of the baby, discrminatory if you tell the swarthy male but not the bearded male.

Having a Disability such as Downs Syndrome isn't a medical issue if you look at it from the perspective of the Social Model of Disability but still the NHS pushes those tests don't they???

OP, depending on where you live if you really are that bothered then transfer to North Herts. they will tell you at Lister in Stevenage. Really a bit at the "human rights" comments and the "the NHS people work for us". As a public sector employee that sort of thing just pisses me right off - I work for my bosses and do what they say. If you don't like the NHS, naff off to the States and pay through the nose for healthcare.

ohanotherone, I have a child with Downs. Whilst the thought of someone choosing to terminate a pregancy because of a diagnosis of Downs makes me feel physically sick and I don't feel that poeple with Downs (or any disabled person) are any less worthy or important members of our society, I do feel that finding out your unborn baby has Downs is very different to finding out the gender. The gender of your child is not going to make much difference to your everyday life, or your child's, but something like Downs could.

Also, as someone who wanted to find out the gender with all my DC and have both been told by the NHS and had to pay over £200 to find out this time, I agree with those who say it's a shame if you can't find out, but sonographers do have a more important job to do. Most places offer gender scans cheaply now anyway.

ohananotherone, aside from the fact that it's Down's syndrome not Downs Syndrome, having Down's syndrome very much is a medical issue for most of the people who have it and their families. Heart conditions, increased risk of infection, weaker neck muscles, cognitive disabilities, highly increased risk of dementia - there aren't any environmental or social adaptions that can eliminate these factors causing the person problems.

100 years ago the average life expectancy of someone with Down's syndrome was 9 years; now it's over 50. This is because of improvements in medical treatments and access esp heart surgery and antibiotics.

Of course individual's social experiences are hugely significant in affecting how their disability affects them; indeed, the Social Model of Disability includes health/illness/sensory impairments.

Boffinmum, I work for the NHS and I can assure you I don't work for you. I am a professional and I use my clinical judgement and protocols. If we allowed the public to decide what treatments they would like the NHS would be on it's knees by the end of the month.

Magicmelons, you do work for me. Indirectly, and as part of a 60 million person collective, but I am afraid you do. Otherwise who do you think you are working for?

I know it doesn't mean I can demand unlimited resources, but it does mean you owe me personally the best treatment you are able to give me within your powers, as well as the best level of communication possible, regardless of my background and whether you like the look of me or not, or trust my motives. It is not up to you to decide what I can and can't know unless there is a clinical reason for witholding it from me and my relatives.

This is a fundamental aspect of public service that seems to have been eroded of late - the idea that professionals are answerable to the public.

Well I think as long as NHS staff are subject to abuse and ridicule when trying to operate within the parameters of their professional obligation, they are quite right in deciding what they do or don't disclose about a fact separate to the the purpose of the scan they are carrying out.

I don't think it's about 'withholding' information or some sort of power kick.

It's about the information about gender not being the purpose of the anomoly scan.

I don't think it matters the slightest to most of us,even if some of us preferances ( I have alovely little girl so a bot would be nice next time!) but hey if its another girl, I will be just as happy (because then I wont have to buy any new clothes!) I think some of us are just impatient and I know for me I wanted to get shopping and be a bit more prepared. Having said that a lot of my friends and family didn't want to know - my mum told me not to tell her until the birth even if I knew already! :)
I don't think its right that some hospitals do and some don't though - we all pay the same taxes! Why should some people have to pay an £100 to find out when others get it free?!! :)

Says who? Who has decided knowing the gender is not the purpose? It may indeed not be the sole purpose but if it is possible to do this for patients within the available time, and they request it, then what on earth is the problem? Unless you are trying to make a point of some kind about the division between the medical and perceived social in your care, and ignore the social?

And while we are at it, if a patient wants their mother in there, what business is it of the sonographer, unless the mother is physically getting in the way? If there was a major medical problem with the fetus the patient should be able to have anyone in there she damn well likes, surely? So why not beforehand, in case of a problem?

Sorry Doh! I did not read this page of comments - very interesting! so my response was for the last page of comments!

A request under the data protection act wont work, because if they dont tell you the gender of the baby they are hardly going to document it in the scan report.

For the sonographer surely the baby is the patient, not the mother? Therefore no obligation to tell you the gender. To suggest someone working for the nhs isn't doing their job to the best of their ability is quite frankly insulting. But being time constrained and with resources pushed I would rather the sonographer check the health of the baby! If they happen to see while scanning it would be nice to know but then that is unfair on those parents where they can't see! So a blanket ban seems fair really even though I would like to know what I'm having! Don't forget there are many other issues where you get a different service depending on the area you live in. It's not ideal but it's no individual's fault.

I LOVE telling parents the sex at anatomy scans, that said-you'd prob be surprised how disappointed lots of people are.
I'm glad I work somewhere where we tell the sex and I do feel that whilst it most certainly is not the purpose of the scan I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable keeping it to myself if I was pretty certain and parents wanted to know. But that's just me I guess.
We allow one adult in for scan and others in at end-more people and it can be difficult to concentrate. I'm pretty relaxed about it but I could practically feel one father to be's breath on my neck earlier today-that was a bit much

I have a friend who is a sonographer in a very busy hospital in the North of Scotland. She told me the reason why they do not disclose gender any more is because people used to actually fabricate reasons to come back after the 2nd scan at 20 weeks to get repeated confirmation of the gender (given the disclaimer that they could never guarantee 100% accuracy).

She said you could always tell as mothers-to-be who had said they had been 'bleeding' or who had had a 'fall' would suddenly be far more interested in whether it was "still a boy" or "still a girl" rather than whether their child was ok. By refusing to give the gender the sonography department found they had noticeably more emergency slots available for genuine cases. Sad but true.

(And yes, she did both of my scans for DS...and no, we didn't want her to tell us what we were having!)

If scans are about medical issues rather than knowing the sex of the baby then no one should be told the sex of their baby. This would be fair to everyone. It becomes discriminatory because some people find out because it's hospital policy. Some people don't find out because it's hospital policy. It seems from this thread that adherence to the policies seem to depend on the tenacity of the parent or the sympathies of the professional. The rationale for the policy isn't always clear as if it changes over time within the same hospital.

I'm not trying to be controversial and I'm certainly not embittered. When I was a less experienced professional I probably didn't question policies much either but really everything we do in NHS should be fair and consistent and be respectful of people, we should take into account peoples feelings, we should give people time, every person is an individual.

We should question policies that have no evidence base and are based on an irrationale fear of being sued (sign a disclaimer) time constraints (explain that no extra time will be given) or ethnic stereotyping (racist). Simple!

Muffins where do you work? I think I will get a transfer!! :)
I guess you are a sonographer? Its good to hear your view as you are dealing with it day in and day out.
I agree ohanotherone. If there were one single policy for all hospitals we wouldnt even be having this conversation.