Overwhelmed by pregnancy dos & donts!

[PenguinPoo4]

Hi,
My DP and I have decided to try and conceive our first baby - eek! But I'm finding all the advice out there about what you can and can't eat and physically do a bit irritating. I've heard that you cant have hot baths whilst pregnant, can't eat soft boiled eggs, brie etc. etc. but people can never tell me WHY! It seems that a lot of pregnant and TTC women take all these precautions because 'it's better to be safe than sorry' and I do agree, but i want to be able to assess the risks for myself and make an informed decision about things based on FACT!Is there a book out there that actually goes into the science behind these things? I'm thinking studies, research etc. Please dont think I'm taking this all lightly and just looking for an excuse to carry on bunjee jumping and drinking wine whilst TTC and pregnant - I'm not, I just want to be able to make the decisions about how to manage my health myself - and lets face it, I could be TTC (so possibly unknowingly pregnant) for bloomin ages so at least if I can understand why I'm having to give up nuts or whatever then I may find it a bit easier!
Thanks!
PS I've lurked for a while but this is my first ever post so please be gentle :)

Interestingly, where I live (Belgium) the only thing they stress about is toxoplasmosis, which Zoe Williams talks about in her article. When I was pregnant with DS last year, I was allowed to eat everything except unwashed raw veg (fine if washed) and undercooked beef and lamb. However, if they had been frozen first, they were apparently fine to eat. No advice about eggs or seafood. My gyaecologist reackoned as long as I wasn't eating sushi for dinner every day I didn't need to worry :)

I think the best thing to do is relax, enjoy TTC and if/when you get pregnant listen to your body. I found that I went off certain things that weren't highly recommended when pregnant (couldn't stand coffee or red wine for example)....

Good luck!

I didn't read all of the article, but the information she is giving about lsiteria isn't really correct. For a start, we are not told (by 'offical sources', such as the FSA) to avoid sushi or sashimi. Also, it is perfectly possible to contract listeriosis without knowing it. Someone posted on another forum not very long ago at all about how her friend's baby had died and when they did the post mortem it showed the baby had been affected by listeriosis, yet the mother had been symptomless.

The risk of listeria is very low, and it is up to each woman to decide to themselves, but the consequences of it are so high I prefer to abstain or cook the cheese thoroughly. You could eat blue cheese or brie every day of your pregnancy and be fine, or you could have a tiny taste just once and be affected badly.

The FSA is a good place for sensible advice on what you can't eat or should avoid and why.

I agree that you should relax as much as possible about all the risks because just worrying is really bad for you and the baby!
As for a book recommendation: imo What To Expect When You Are Expecting is good for actual facts; has a useful subject index and well thought-out Q&As.

For actual, real science-based evidence the Cochrane reviews are brilliant

www.cochrane.org/cochrane-reviews

this web page allows you to search their reviews. A Cochrane review is basically a careful, and statistically thorough, analysis of all the published peer-reviewed scientific papers on a particular medical issue.

See here to search all the reviews so far on pregnancy and childbirth

www2.cochrane.org/reviews/en/topics/87.html

I found the free summaries really useful when I had questions about health advice during both my pregnancies (for instance risks/side effects of particular induction techniques). I am a scientist but not a medical scientist. I'd be really interested to hear what MNers with no science background think of this website.

btw - I have absolutely nothing to do with Cochrane, I'm just a huge fan of evidence-based decision making in any field (as opposed to old wives tales, journalists trying to hype up a headline or one-off anecdotes). Given the appalling mis-use of statistics by politicians I wish someone would do the same for public policy evidence.

After one of my ultrasounds (I think at 9 weeks) my OB GYN told me to have a glass of champagne (couple of previously failed pregnancies so it was something to celebrate).

He says to use my common sense - cook food through to avoid food poisoning, don't eat anything past its sell by date and don't go overboard on anything which is known to be potentially dodgy. Everything in moderation: a glass of champagne OK. Three, not. A slice of toast with paté OK, if you trust the paté not to be carrying food poisoning - but not a whole loaf of bread smothered in paté... and don't beat yourself up if you have a slightly rare steak once in a while.

Also, be careful about hygiene in the kitchen. Try and eat a healthy and balanced diet - though a can of coke won't do any harm, and neither will indulging cravings for crisps.

Oh, and anyone who says don't eat such and such as you'll give the baby hiccups (my mother goes on and on about my curry cravings giving babies hiccups) don't worry about that - hiccups won't harm the baby (though it might annoy you after a while).

Those Cochrane reviews are good, there's loads of them though but I think I will refer to them as and when I have any really specific questions when I am pregnant. Thanks!

Regarding soft cheese, my understanding was that many soft cheeses are made with unpasteurised milk, hence the higher risk of listeria.

In fact, you can often find brie, camembert etc. made with pasteurised milk nowadays, so I see no reason when that should pose any greater risk than any other cheese.

Feel free to correct me if I've got that wrong, though!

Good luck, Penguin

Zoe Williams has also written a book called Bring It On Baby which is a realistic look at pregnancy drawing on her own experiences, and her attempts to get to the bottom of all the advice etc.

It is a good read - rather funny too!

Immaculada, you shouldn't eat mould ripened cheeses whether they are made from pasturised milk or not as there is still a listeria risk.

Remember also that different countries think different things are ok/not ok. An Aussie friend of mine who was pg at the same time wouldn't touch shellfish but I just didnt eat things that filtered water like oysters. I was in italy at 30 weeks and was told they ate cheese happily but avoided any pasteurized meats.

For me I followed the FSA advice for the most part but continued to eat runny eggs and rare meat.

Practice your do fuck off face for the Nazis and good luck ttc.

That article is brilliant.

I just read on another thread someone saying no Ben & Jerry's phish food...made me laugh. In my first pregnancy, I did the stereotypical thing of sitting on the sofa in the middle of the night eating it straight from the tub. DD is perfectly fine, although she has got a Mini Milk addiction....

A little bit of common sense & we will all be fine!

My theory is that it is simply up to YOU to decide the level of risk that you're comfortable with.

I'm on the "it'll be fine" end of the spectrum and have eaten soft cheese, cured meat, shellfish, drank alcohol a couple of times a week, rode a bike, swam breaststroke, been to a (admittedly not very hot) jacuzzi, shared a few fags, gone abroad and done the limbo during this pregnancy.

(I've also done yoga, eaten a balanced diet, kept active, read a lot and kept a positive attitude.)

I guess my own personal choice has been to enjoy life, keep a balance and not worry too much.

HOWEVER I totally understand that other people want to eliminate as many risks as possible. Some good friends (and lovely fellow Mumsnetters) have had sad experiences that mean they would never take those kind of risks. I totally respect that.

But I'd prefer to retain my sunny, optimistic outloook for as long as I can.

Mayo Clinic on pregnancy. A lot of the nutrition advice comes without specific reasons why it should be followed or why the normal risk involved in, say, eating undercooked meat poses a greater threat during pregnancy. I don't know what it is about pregnancy that makes medical personnel think women's brains have turned to goo.

It never occured to me to eat any differently when I was pregnant.

I guess it helps that I don't shellfish or pate and only eat brie about once a year.

I used to drink coffee but from the moment I fell pregnant, I couldn't stand the smell or taste of coffee.

I also had a huge craving for ham cheese egg pineapple and tomato sandwiches (all on the one sandwich).

I had this for lunch just about every day until I went on mat leave along with a huge bottle of orange juice.

I very rarely drink orange juice now. Mostly water and green tea.

Oh! and I don't drink alcohol, so that wasn't a problem either.

You are a grown woman who has made it to (hopefully) 16+ years. I trust you not to eat petri dishes full of bacteria! You can trust your own judgement and make your own decisions - just be sure to accept that once pregnant every single thing you do will be tutted at!

IMO pregnancy is just like the practise run for having a baby - and the most important lesson you need to learn is to trust your own instincts ...and to smile sweetly at busy bodies. Never under-estimate the importance of this skill where raising children is concerned!

With both pregnancies most of the time I ate healthily and kept up gentle exercise, but I also drank the odd glass of wine, had soft cheese and soft boiled eggs when I fancied them. On my second pregnancy with a toddler who still didn't believe in the concept of sleep, I couldn't face the prospect of a full day of work without an espresso and bacon sandwich on my way into the office. In fairness this is the time I perfected my sweet smile at interferring well meaning people. I understand for some that is not acceptable but I trusted my body and my instincts to tell me what was right for me.

oops - that should have been interferring as opposed to emphasising so strongly what I thought of them

Nightlark explains it very well. I am sometimes a pregnancy Nazi, but I have good reason to be. A pessimist is an optimist with experience.

at work I had to sign something to say i would not climb on even a small step to reach something (quietly ignored), or go scuba diving (on the 9th floor)!

My theory (am 7+5 weeks gone now) is to choose where you get advice from, and don't worry about other sources of advice. For me, it's my midwife, my Mum, and the Ministry of Health website that I trust. The problem with the internet is that everyone can be an expert and it's hard to weigh up what different people beleive so you need to decide who you trust, and roll with that.

You might find this article interesting, written by a midwife with stats to to back it up

Like you, I am quite keen on calculated risks. Not just for food, but for all activities. I never, ever ceases to amaze me that people will pass judgement on eating food such as cheese, or having the odd glass of wine, but don't do a sharp intake of breath at the mention of a pregnant woman driving on a motorway in the dark, or swimming in the sea, which are also statistically 'dangerous'

But I would second what the others have said. This probably isn't the time to take risks for the sake of it, but equally not the time to lock yourself away and live off charred food and filtered water only.

And IGNORE your mother/MIL/meddling aunts when they decide to share their wisdom... Most will have spent their pregnancies eating whatever they ate normally, drinking unpasterised milk because that was standard, eating the eggs of unvaccinated hens and having guiness because it was 'good for them' and it didn't do us much harm

The fact is whatever you are reading for this pregnancy will have totally changed in 3 years time. I'm 32 and when my mother had me she spent 3 weeks in hospital being force fed 1/2 a pint of stout each night (she still can't stand the smell of it!) because her iron count was low. Can you imagine the scandal if the NHS tried that these days :)

I think it's all down to preference, I can't function without my cup of tea first thing in the morning but have given up chain drinking coffee all afternoon, personally it's been easier for me to give up alcohol then have to stop after a glass when everyone around me is still going (have to say staying totally sober for nearly 9 months has lead to learning some interesting things about people I've known for years).

I'm more free with what I eat if I've cooked it myself rather than if I'm out and I've followed the advice that makes "sense" to me, I know the risks of eating undercooked meat when I'm not pregnant and can easily understand that with a lowered immune system these risks increase whilst pregnant. At the end of the day when you get pregnant you will also hear a load of stories about how people with horrific morning sickness spent the first 2 months living on totally random things like crackers and mars bars and their kids are fine, your body is totally able to ensure that your baby gets what it needs from you, you however may feel more rundown as your body will come second in the pecking order.

Good luck TTC and just enjoy it ;)

Wow, it seems like lots of people have had similar issues/worries! I am lucky in that I dont have any family where I live, so there won't be much interfering from that side (but no free babysitters either, ha!). But I do work with a lot of awfully judgemental women, I have actually told them off before when they've been having bitch fests about other women who drink whilst pregnant, exercise whilst pregnant,even women who try to minimise junk food whilst pregnant! (Apparently because they turned into human dustbins whilst pregnant, anyone not wanting to do the same is vain!). Ah well, in my 28 years I've gotten a lot better at not caring what people think, so I'm sure I can toughen up even more! And if not, I can come on here and bitch about them bitching about me :O
Thanks for all the support, I am going to get some folic acid, make sure I dont binge drink (will still drink though, till I know I'm pregnant), and try and just forget about everything else for now. I need to make sure I dont obsess about TTC anyway, as I think I could easily drive DP mad if I banged on about it as much as I would like to!

Am 20+5.

I didn't give up alcohol for ttc, but have given up now (largely because I am a social drinker usually and would rarely have just one glass and stop. I don't drink wine much at home anyway, so it made sense to stop entirely).

I gave up caffeine in the first trimester but am having a couple of cups of tea a day now. Sometimes I have a chocolate bar too. I eat runny eggs (salmonella is extremely unlikely, and it doesn't cross the placenta anyway so it would harm me, not the baby). I figure I don't want salmonella at the best of times but that doesn't stop me eating eggs. I steered clear of pate and blue cheese at Christmas but all other cheeses I've been having regardless. Only a couple of people have had listeria in the UK in the last ten years. I drive 70 miles to work and 70 miles back each day - I reckon that's a lot more dangerous than a bit of Brie. I wouldn't eat raw shellfish but personally I think cooked is fine.

So basically I've cut out alcohol and reduced my caffeine, and I don't eat offal/pate anyway. Everything else I've just continued with as normal.

That's all I can think I've given up. penguinpoo I agree it's a feminist issue, but not because medical professionals are or aren't male - just because views on gender are still so entrenched for a lot of people (regardless of their own sex). A lot of people just can't wait to find an excuse to regulate female behaviour. My SILs actually looked horrified that I had been ice skating and tried to stop me going bowling It's hardly bungee jumping!

Penginpoo, do let me know if they start on the 'exercise when pregnant' thing
It is another one of my huge bugbears!
There are some very good questions and answers on here, again with fully referenced replies from scientific papers and articles
(can you tell I have a science background)
www.baby-a-wake.com/