Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Gina Ford

54 replies

aichi · 08/11/2010 09:51

Hi

I'm 39wks pregnant and I started to read Gina Ford's The New Contended little baby's book to get myself prepared for the new life with the baby.

There seen to be so much to remember and I'm totally confused of how to feed and sleep the baby...So many rules and routines.

Babies aren't machines and I have some doubts about her way of training the babies...

Can someone explain to me how her method works (in layman's term) and I'm interested to hear your experience?

Thanks

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
PeasPlease · 08/11/2010 10:01

Ha, I don't think you will find much support for her on here. With DD1 I avoided any such routines, primarily because of what MN had to say about it all but with my twins I needed a semblance of order and routine so bought her book.

Basically, you have to read what she has to say about each feed and nap IN ADDITION TO reading the routines. You may well need to mess with the times to suit your baby and you will understand how to better after reading all the explanations. What the ultimate aim is is to feed your baby as much as you can during the day rather than at night and make sure that naps are enough to refresh but not enough to cause night wakings.

WRT breastfeeding, she is trying to avoid you getting into the trap of quick feeds in the day followed by loads of feeds in the night so the expressing trains your body to produce more milk at each feeding session. IME, unless you have a hospital grade pump on hire, this aspect of the routines is the most difficult. If you can't hire one of these pumps, I would suggest not doing the expressing and just feed more often during the day than the routines suggest.

She doesn't advocate leaving little babies to cry when hungry or sob themselves to sleep even though I think that is her reputation
on MN.

If it all seems too much to bother with just feed your baby when they wake up and put them to bed when they yawn!

loopeylu · 08/11/2010 10:03

Gawd - you'll probably get an outburst of loathing about Gina Ford on here but i'll give you my honest opinion:

I absolutely didn't read GF like a book - rather I flicked through and looked at feeding and sleep times, ignoring a lot of the rest. I didn't bother looking at it at all until my son was 2 weeks old. As a first time mother I found having a vague timetable useful (but that is the kind of person I am I suppose), especially given I didn't have parents or in-laws on hand to turn to. Everyone has their own way of doing things and invariably thinks their was is best and all others are wrong. You'll find your own routine soon enough and I wouldn't get too boggled by the millions of books (which all contradict one another in some way).

Good luck with it all.

CrazyPlateLady · 08/11/2010 10:07

I don't agree with putting such a young baby into a strict routine. You need to go with the flow a bit more. If they need feeding, they need it. Not someone from a book telling you you should wait until it has been 4 hours.

My DS fell into his own routine after a while, which I think most babies do.

You won't get support for GF on here I'm afraid!

loopeylu · 08/11/2010 10:07

Oo - meant to add, I completely ignored her stuff on breast feeding which I was told was incorrect. I used Clare Byam Cook's book 'what to expect when you're breastfeeding' which I found v v good indeed - I ended up breastfeeding exclusively for 4 and a half months thanks to her which was way longer than I thought i'd ever achieve.

BertieBotts · 08/11/2010 10:13

Ditch GF now before it has the chance to make you go insane Grin

Get "The Food Of Love" instead (if you want to breastfeed) - TBH I'd definitely avoid clare Byam cook on brestfeeding as well as she has some very strange and misleading advice in her book.

And just remember whatever book you read that the baby hasn't read it Wink

faverolles · 08/11/2010 10:13

I tried to follow this when ds1 was born, and had the worst few weeks of my life.
I felt like a failure because I couldn't get Ds to fit into any sort of routine, I felt I had a "bad" baby because he wouldn't conform to routine.
After a few weeks, dh threw the book into the fire in a rage, saying something like "fuck her, he's not her baby, he's ours, let's just do it our way".
Life was so much easier after!
Tiny babies don't often fit into pre-set routines, so my advice would be to ditch the book and just try to relax and enjoy your new baby when he or she arrives!

TRL · 08/11/2010 10:26

OK, what follows is my understanding/experience but should be read in context of the fact that babies are all different - size, ability to feed, nature etc are all factors in whether or not G Ford will work for you and most importantly your own expectations/nature....

I have 4 children - the youngest is 7 months and the oldest has just turned 8.

Once No 1 was about 4 weeks old, I couldn't stand the not understanding his needs/cries etc and the total sleep chaos any longer and a friend recommended Gina Ford to me. It took about 2 /3 days to really establish the routine - you just start at 7 am one morning regardless of how many times you've been up in the night which is I found the hardest thing, getting the energy and determination to start. Once on the routine, he was immovable - he would sleep in a travel cot if we were out at exactly the times she says etc etc. He weaned brilliantly. I thought, my Goodness, this woman's a genious! Nature-wise he's grown into a child who needs structure - regular meals, plenty of sleep, quiet time, activity time - to be happy. Not sure if that's because his start was so regimented or he settled with Gina Ford because his nature is like that anyway.

No. 2 followed suit. He settled to her routine easily and happily. He's more flexible by nature now and generally easier-going than No. 1. He was a very hungry baby who needed regular sleep to be happy and her routine did it for him!

No. 3 - well once you have two others sticking to any routine gets tricky. No. 3 settled into her very own way of doing things early on, was an utterly happy, joyful baby,who barely seemed to eat, needed far less sleep than the boys and just got on with life. I was confident enough to let her do her own thing as she did most of her sleeping at night (I can't do sleep deprivation!).

No. 4 - even more impossible to establish any regular routine when yr on school runs, after school activiites etc - they can never sleep when they want to or eat when they're hungry. He's definitely the worst night sleeper I've had but he's also wonderfully easy-going and seems to manage without naps etc if necessary without whining.

The basic structure is that no young baby should be awake for more than 2 hours at a time (my newborns have barely managed half an hour!), hence you structure their naps around those intervals. You have a medium length nap 2 hours after getting up, a long one at lunch time then a short refresh late afternoon. Ordering the lengths of time like that stops them getting too overtired at bedtime then they don't scream in tiredness interminably. 3 of mine have cried uncontrollably when they've got overtired - only DD just fell asleep which is what you'd expect a baby to do! So, having a system to help them feed regularly and sleep in chunks helped them and me.

I had never been around any babies in my life (and I mean none) plus I like organisation so for me, Gina Ford was a godsend for the first one. I would have enjoyed DS1 a lot less had he and I been tired etc. But it's very difficult to start before they're four weeks old, even six weeks. And you may end up with a baby like my DD who really settled herself and fed a little and was content all on her own!

Good luck with your little darling!

aichi · 08/11/2010 10:42

Opps I didn't know MNetters are against GF...

I must admit I bought the book out of curiosity but more chapters I read I began to get confused - Her thoughts on breastfeeding, demand feeding to her theory on cuddling! Dont over stimulate the baby etc...aghhhh

However she mentions a few times that mothers also need a rest/sleep and GF's routine helps mothers get some sleep too.

OP posts:
midori1999 · 08/11/2010 10:44

A couple of friend's have followed the routines, and one kindly (her first baby, my third, who slept through the night from thr day he came home [hmm} ) lent me the book to read. I felt that their lives were controlled so much by the routines and whilst their babies may have been easy if they stuck to the routine, if a social event came up that meant the routines would be broken, it meant that either they had to decline or all hell broke loose.

I have always just gone with the flow, fed when hungry, put to bed when tired, not worried at all about too many naps or nor sleeping at night and all of mine have slept through the night from a young age and never been any bother.

BertieBotts · 08/11/2010 10:52

In most cases with your first baby though you can sleep when the baby sleeps, the baby doesn't have to be in a routine for that :)

Also worth remembering that it's much safer to make your bed a safe place and feed lying down at night so that if you fall asleep while feeding it doesn't matter too much than trying to stay awake while feeding sitting up in a chair or on the sofa just because you could drop the baby, or it could get trapped between sofa cushions etc. People will come up with prophecies of doom about never getting the baby out of your bed but I think these are unfounded - you can always transition to a cot when they start sleeping for longer stretches. I think a bedside cot is the best solution that you can convert later if you want to.

voituredepompier · 08/11/2010 11:02

I followed GF's advice with a large pinch of salt and it worked very well. You don't have to follow it slavishly, just use it as guide to how often and for how long to feed your baby and how much sleep they need.

For someone who didn't have a clue about looking after a baby before my DS came along it was great to have a guiding hand. Just don't take it too seriously and maybe don't start it straightaway, wait a few weeks until you have go to know your baby.

She doesn't say don't cuddle your baby, just don't give then too much attention in night feeds - just quietly feed your baby and get them back to sleep ASAP, that way you get more sleep. Also she rightly says don't over stimulate your baby just before you want the baby to go to sleep. She offers a lot of common sense advice which can be severely lacking when you are sleep deprived.

On first reading it is confusing especially as the routine changes every few weeks and you are just getting the hang of it and then it changes. But this is just to refelect that babies can quickly go for longer between feeds and need less sleep. The book made a lot more sense once my DS arrived.

Good luck

MrsGangly · 08/11/2010 11:05

Liking GF is against MN groupthink, but if you want to find people who do like GF in a variety of ways:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/parenting/1041506-Safe-thread-for-those-using-Gina-Ford-Babywhisperer-routines?pg=1

FindingGuysMojo · 08/11/2010 11:14

"Babies are random" is a great mantra for the first couple of months.

potplant · 08/11/2010 11:15

I used it around 6 week mark for my DTs and it saved my sanity. With two I couldn't slavishly follow the routine (I couldn't bath one in the time she gave never mind) but I did follow the spirit of it and it worked wonders for me.

It can be a bit restrictive - I remember going to a family party and virtually standing guard over the pram between 12 and 2 as my MIL kept trying to fish them out. But that's me being a bit mad rather than GF!

thedollshouse · 08/11/2010 11:26

With ds1 I followed GF and it worked really well. I wasn't a slave to it, i.e I didn't do the whole darkened room or controlled crying methods as ds1 liked to have his naps in the same room that we were in. I found the feeding routine very useful as structuring his feeds in that way seemed to really suit him.

With ds2 he was having none of it and wanted to establish his own routine. Ds2 didn't want his feeds structured in that way either as he liked to feed little and often. I found that I was pretty much feeding him the whole day long but that was what he wanted and he has always slept so well at night that I can't complain.

Ds2 is now 6 and a half months and since he has been on solids he seems to have slotted into his own little routine. I was having a look at the GF book the other day and realised that ds2 has decided he does want to be a GF baby as he is having his naps and the feeds at the times she prescribed in her book which is down to ds not me. I think the book is based on what the majority of the babies in her experience tend to naturally do anyway.

Go with the flow and do what suits you and your baby. You will probably find as I did that after a few months your baby falls into a natural routine anyway. Don't stress if it doesn't suit your baby but don't feel that you can't have any structure either as I have found a little structure to the day is good for my sanity!

firefrakkers · 08/11/2010 11:33

If your baby is a GF baby then it works and you will never understand why some people can't do it because it's so easy. If you baby is definitely not a GF baby then it will never work and you will never understand why people do do it.

Some people need a structure and a guidebook, which GF does very well. Others feel it goes against their instincts and don't want to do it at all.

Personally I'm of the half-way house school of thought. There are positives: structure and patterns are good, the guidelines for how long babies need to sleep for are relatively accurate and a bad day is 24 hours so you can always reset the clock at 7am the next day and try to follow it.

Just whatever you do don't get yourself worked up if you or your baby don't want to follow it...

HollyBollyBooBoo · 08/11/2010 13:09

I read GF and truly thought I'd follow it after friends had been really successful with it. My Mum's raised eyebrow and wry smirk when she read a couple of pages should have been a good warning...

I like the idea of it but would love to ask Gina how you;
a) make a tired baby stay awake until the designated time, b) how you make a wide awake baby sleep at the designated time,
c) how you force a full baby to feed and a starving baby to wait to feed until the designated time!!

Popped the book to the back of the bookshelf and just went with the flow...3.5 months on DD is thriving, sleeping through night and the most contented babe you could ever wish for...hate it when my mother is always right!

GretnaGirl · 08/11/2010 13:23

I threw GF out after watching a friend go mental trying to follow the routine and then she was tied to the routine and her baby hated it to be disturbed. I read Jo Frost's Confident Baby Care, it's not a routine just good advice that you can refer to if you need to. It's up to you of course but I found my DS and I found our own routine in time, all babies are different and like different things.

kitten30 · 08/11/2010 13:31

Gina Ford..a manual how to create a dysfunctional badly attached child!

www.whylovematters.com/

This book will explain why her methods are totally pointless and more importantly very damaging.

You may wish to read this article too. Does crying damage babies' brains?

Share

Ian Sample
The Guardian, Thursday 11 November 2004 12.21 GMT
Article history
If it does, then there must be a lot of brain-damaged babies around. "If you think of the amount of crying that babies do, you would think biology would ensure it doesn't cause brain damage," says crying expert Dieter Wolke, the scientific director of the Jacobs Foundation at Zurich University. "I can't see how it'd happen."

Warnings of the dangers of leaving babies to cry emerged in reports at the weekend, causing concern to the legions of parents who practise "controlled crying" of the sort recommended by baby experts such as Gina Ford.

Margot Sunderland, who runs a conference and lecture organisation called the Centre for Child Mental Health in London, said that stress levels in babies who aren't comforted when they cry can get high enough, and remain high for so long, that it causes brain cells to die. That in turn can lead to neurosis and emotional disorders later in life, she says.

"About 20 minutes would be enough to cause damage," says Sunderland, who drew her conclusions after studying hundreds of research papers on stress and brain development.

Researchers say that while animals exposed to very high levels of stress for prolonged periods can develop changes in their brain structure, stress from crying has never been shown to cause such damage. "If it were true, it'd be a surprise," says Annette Karmiloff-Smith, professor of neurocognitive development at the Institute of Child Health.

"It's news to me," says Mark Johnson, an expert in developmental neuroscience at Birkbeck College, University of London.

Crying is an immensely useful mechanism for raising the alarm that all is not well, says Wolke. Before the age of six months, crying is almost always a genuine plea for help, rather than simply a way of grabbing attention, he says. On average, a baby cries for two-and-a-half hours a day for the first three months of its life, but for only about an hour once it is one year old.

Wolke says that once an infant is older than six months, it is safe to start leaving the baby to cry for longer periods if they are doing it purely to get attention - so-called controlled crying.

"You should never leave a baby to cry until they are about six months old, because before that age, they don't have the ability to cry just to get attention, they are doing it for a reason," he says.

Acanthus · 08/11/2010 13:33

NOOOOOOOOOOOO never mention she who must not be named on mumsnet

Deliaskis · 08/11/2010 13:39

Just dipping my toe into this but kitten, my GF book quite specifically says in a number of places that she would never advocate leaving a baby to cry for more than about 5 minutes.

I'm not decided yet on whether I am going to use some or any of GF's advice, but I do think there seems to be a bit of inaccuracy about what her 'methods' are.

Everybody I have spoken to outside of mn has said they used GF as a useful guide, not a military schedule, and for that, it was very useful.

D

kitten30 · 08/11/2010 13:42

What are her formal qualifications..oh yes she has none! If you want a good parenting book try Margot Sunderland who has actually been studying brain development with top neuroscientists for the past nine years. I have been to many of her conferences as part of my job. Her book 'what every parent needs to know' is very easy to read, perhaps a bit easier than the why love matters book I just mentioned. Good luck with your birth and new arrival.

kitten30 · 08/11/2010 13:42

Mumsnet libel

Ford has threatened legal action against online child and parenting forum mumsnet.com, claiming that users have made "defamatory" comments about her, and has demanded that the whole site be taken down[7][8]. In May 2007, this dispute was resolved with Mumsnet paying some of Ford's legal costs, but Mumsnet remaining open.[9]

goodlifemummy · 08/11/2010 13:44

Hi I bought GF and Baby Whisperer befor I had my twins. I used them to flick through and get an idea of what my day might consist of - I had no clue!! So I used the bits of each that suited me and dropped the bits that didn't. TBH I needn't have bothered because the girls were in SCBU for 2 weeks and when we got them home they were in a perfact eat - sleep - eat - sleep routine. I have still got them now for dc3 due in 6 weeks. I also didn't breastfeed, so that probably made my life slightly easier with twins.

porcupine11 · 08/11/2010 13:46

I also wanted to add there is huge misunderstanding about the cuddling - the book means (quite rightly) that if you are pacing the floors with a screaming baby, wondering why cuddles aren't soothing him, then it could be because he wants to be put down to sleep in the dark. It took me 10 weeks to realise this with DS2, he just wanted to be in pitch black dark and quiet before he could nap.

Swipe left for the next trending thread