Is it really so wrong to punish??

[Zil131]

DS (2.9) is perfectly capable of getting himself to the toilet and having a wee; but has continually pooed in his pants. Patience to ignore what is a concious act (he runs off if I catch him doing it) is wearing thin. We have just come back from a weeks holiday with the grandparents, where regular poo scraping and clothes changing whilst out for the day has got somewhat tedious.
My dad can't believe us modern mums just turn a blind eye...
Anybody punished? I've tried all kinds of rewards, but nothing seems to work.

booyhoo - DD used to hide behind sofas and curtains to do her poos way before she was anywhere near a potty, months before potty training started. This behaviour is not "telling" of any parental approach to potty training.

All the child psychology I've ever read on the subject suggests that hiding to poo is a direct result of feeling guilty and ashamed about needing to poo. So that might have preceeded potty training but doesn't mean it's not connected

I've not seen anything to suggest it's a 'sign' of being ready

I suspect that the OP's parents were themselves subjected to punishment during the course of their own potty training. It was the way things were done, reward the good, punish the bad behaviour. However, practices like making the child sit on the pot until they had done something or strapping them into a potty chair are pointless and cruel, but it did used to happen! A constant atmosphere of angry negativity, where children are scolded and smacked for accidents will not produce the required result.

However, being a bit too forgiving of constant accidents where you know the child is trying it on, just gives the message that it is O.K. to continue, so it is justifiable to make it clear that you want them to use the toilet or potty. You don't need to be aggressive, just say firmly that you know they can stay clean/dry and would like them to do wees and poos in the right place.

In the case of the OP's ds, getting to the root of why he prefers to poo in his pants is the important thing, so that a plan of action can be implemented (such as lining a potty with a nappy for example) something that is acceptable to parents and child at the moment and then gradually move on to potty with no nappy and the toilet. I do think a lot of children have real difficulty letting go of their poo, because they think of it as part of themselves, not as adults do which is something to be got rid of as soon as. I could go on about the psychology of potty training but I've gone on long enough!

Lady I have read a few child psychology books and have studied psychology to postgrad level and yes it can be a sign of being ready not necessarily a persons parenting style, it is wrong to judge when you dont know the child or the parent imo. Yes a sign of readiness is that a child takes them selves off another room to poo in private like we would the toilet. would you like to poo in front of people .

while on the subject we can say that a child withholding poo is a bit telling too , even though its considered to be normal behaviour during potty training and needs help when the child's health is being compromised by it.

I would personally prefer my child to go round the corner and poo her pants than holding it in. Eventually she will not like having soiled pants and come round to the idea of doing it in a potty or loo.

No I wouldn't piglet

But I do know children that did that and then went on to be terribly constipated which I thought was related. Having said that, I don't have a postgrad degree in psychology, have just read a few books on the subject too and that's what the ones I've read have suggested. Obviously there are some differences in opinion out there

I am not saying I am the perfect parent as I am not, but who is its not a sign for every child, but some children on readiness. They will become more aware of doing a wee and a poo and will take themselves off somewhere private like we do I suppose when we go to the loo.

Boy I have read so many books about it in preparation to potty training. Even though I am aware of psychological type things due to my area of interest it does not stop me worrying about dd. At the moment she is going to be assessed by the Ed Psych and is being seen by SALT due to social communication difficulties. I know that dd like me and my dh is shy, dh is very introvert and will become more confident as she gets older, she is only 3.4, but I cant help worrying that she is not communicating as well as the other children.

I'm sorry that you are worried about your DD. Hope you're just being anxious (if that doesn't come across as patronising) and that she is fine, just shy. My DS is the same age and the opposite to your DD and I worry about that too. He is perfectly happy being entirely out of my sight, talking to strangers. I have to watch him like a hawk.

Parenting is the fastest way to increasing the grey in your hair I can think of!

Colditz that was out of order

"If you read child psychology books it does say that toddlers do hide or take themselves off somewhere to do a poo its one of the signs of being ready."

yet you decide she is being defiant when she does it? this is what i find telling. you are seeing normal PT behaviour as defiance. you are approaching it with a negative attitude.

just to clarify, i dont think the hiding to poo is telling i think the way OP choses to define this behaviour is telling.

Yes Lady I am a bit anxious and bit down at the moment about it all really I don't mean to sound condescending, I am a bit worried . Yes booyhoo I did class it as defiance as dd would look me in the eye smile and proceeded to go round the corner for a poo or wee, she knew she needed the potty and what to do, but knew it would wind me up. But I just got her to remove her pants and put clean ones one and said never mind wee wee in the potty next time. If it was indoors I would do the same, but get her to help me to clean it up so she understood consequence and action, she was dry soon enough. Well poos are still hit and miss, sometimes in the toilet sometimes in the pants but hey she will get it, I am just happy that we are on the right road.

Oh ok Booyhoo

To the op punishing does not work at all, it just creates issues later on. A simple oh dear wee wee in the toilet or potty next time please will do. Get them to 'help' you in the cleaning up process, you do most of the cleaning of course

OMG I got lost in the post holiday chaos and clean up of life with 2 little ones, and I log on now to see the debate still rages; and I'm still confused...
I can't keep saying "Oh dear an another accident" after 3 months, and get a grin, a laugh and an "I pooed in my pants", he's talking the piss. So I'm afraid he gets a stern face and a little reminder tht he is big enough not to do that, and we can't put a sticker on his reward chart today.
I do know however that he will not poo on the floor, so if he is naked from the waist down, he will go and find the potty - what's that all about?? He can remove his pants to have a wee...
He is now spending most time at home pants free (and getting stickers on the chart at last!)

Z1131 just say poo in the potty not the pants. I expect that he will go to pre school when he is 3. You could say to him if he still does poo in his pants that he is a big boy now, and he will be going to school, and that all the other girls and boys will be doing their poos in the loo and thats where he will do his. A time will come when he will no longer want to be in pooey pants and that it wont be fun anymore, the stigma of smelling bad at pre school might encourage him to use the toilet to do a poo.

piglet - You have had a 3 yr old, right? Do you seriously think that the prospect of a place called school that he doesn't know of, in a far away future that he cannot imagine, etc will deter him from pooing in his pants today?

Well I have started PT my dd at 3.1 after she started pre school In March which is attached to the primary school. I told her that she is a big girl and goes to 'school' and that she has to wear pants now etc. I am talking about the op not doing this now, but in the future if at 3 he is still pooing pants and is going to pre school. Now she should just remind him that poo goes in the loo, and not make too much fuss, as it can be attention seeking and something that the child use as control for the parent iyswim.

You used the future tense in your previous post "say to him ... he will go to school, he will poo in toilet" etc which is why I understood what I said rather than what you are saying now.

Look, sorry but have skipped all the other posts tbh.

I have learned over 14 yrs parenting many kids that some boys are one of a kind.

Be patient, let him decide and reward hugely and do not punish him.

One day he will just decide it is time and he will hop on the loo like big boy and you're away. Its really not long now. I would stick him back in nappies and say well you tell me when you're ready to be a big boy... he will; I promise.

skinny i love it. it is what i will be doing with ds2. i started ds1 before he was ready and it took months. i got frustrated and he did aswell. recipe for disaster. this time i will just let ds2 take his own sweet time.

i'm with skinnymalinki too

what Skinny said.

"I still think it's possible to be too laid back about the processs. "

Oh I agree with you here, martha. My nephew is 4.6yo and is not out of nappies yet. Both his parents feel that he'll do it when he is ready even though they've tried to get him on the potty and he says 'no' and so they've just left it and feel that it's very common for children (without SN!) to be in nappies when they start primary school ok then.