Is it really so wrong to punish??

[Zil131]

DS (2.9) is perfectly capable of getting himself to the toilet and having a wee; but has continually pooed in his pants. Patience to ignore what is a concious act (he runs off if I catch him doing it) is wearing thin. We have just come back from a weeks holiday with the grandparents, where regular poo scraping and clothes changing whilst out for the day has got somewhat tedious.
My dad can't believe us modern mums just turn a blind eye...
Anybody punished? I've tried all kinds of rewards, but nothing seems to work.

No dont punish at all. My dd 3.4 (recently PT) is good with wees and is dry but poos no, she does poo her pants most of the time and somtimes the potty. I just ignore it really, and hope that later on she will get it. I am just thankful that dd is dry and out of nappies. I do remind her though when she has done a poo that it goes in the toilet not the pants, and to tell mum/dad/auntie or whoever is with her if she needs a poo or a wee. Its just one of those things, they will get there eventually they all do, just relax!

oh gosh, you all sound so right on!

FWIW, I have helped to potty train many children and , yes it is much harder to train older and more wilful children.

I have worked in nurseries where obviously I would not express disgust of disapproval at children in my care (as they are not my own).

And I have seen this stage of nearly 3 year olds pooing in pants going on for a further 6 months!

Now I used to think to myself, if they were mine I'd have this sorted in a week, by HONESTLY expressing my distaste.

It's up to you OP, but I'd personally be looking to nip this in the bud.

personally, I wouldn't punish, pooing in the toilet is a new things for a child not even 3.
My ds1 who is 2.11 poo'd his pants last week in the park, I just said "oh dear, let's get you cleaned up then"

My friend punished her dd for soiling (even weeing) in her knickers but atm, doesn't seem to have had too much of a negative effect, but can def see how it could.

I stopped potty training when my DS kept doing this at a similar age and started again when he was 3.2 at his instigation. No accidents at all. I don't understand why people carry on trying when it's not really working and making both them and their DC unhappy (although I appreciate that my POV is generally not The Done Thing)

There is nothing wrong with disapproval. Combine it with praise when he does pee or poo in a potty/toilet, by all means. The two are not mutually exclusive strategies.

Yes, he has been pooing in a nappy "all his life" but the whole point of nappy training is to change this habit. Surely you have changed your baby's habits before and I this will not be the last time either - sleeping through the night, quitting dummy, weaning, etc.

Around here, preschool won't take kids unless they are toilet trained. So yes, there is a very valid reason why people potty train before 3.2.

I'd go with:

1. Showing disappointment if he poos in his pants

1. Telling him big boys poo on the potty or toilet, like Mummy and Daddy.

1. Rewarding him if he poos in the right place. DS2 got a smartie for each poo in the potty. After a week he was managing to do about ten tiny poos a day in the potty. Amazing self control!

Also, I'd try a potty rather than the loo. Apparently some children don't like the splash a poo makes.

Going against my advice, I had to voice my disaproval at dd for pooing in her pants when the toilet was right next to her. She was in a sitting down position pooing. She knows full well what to do, it was her being lazy and not being bothered to go to the toilet. I put her back on the toilet where she did another poo, she quickly came off it pulled her pants up, then proceeded to do another poo in her pants grrr. DD is 3.4 years and as I said does know exactly what to do and when she needs to go. Thats why I was a bit cheesed off

Oh yes when dd poos in the potty/toilet lots of praise, clapping and I give a chocci button too. But they do have to know disapproval when they poo/wee in the pants on the floor etc how are they going to learn, especially when they know exactly what to do but cant be bothered to go to the toilet.

I can see what your saying but all the medical type advice for pooing children is to give nothing but praise, never punishment or disapproval. I read into it a lot for my friend and it seems to cause more problems than it solves.

I understand Carbonated but how are they going to know if its not pointed out to them. My dd knows full well how to use the potty but chose to do a poo in her pants and for that I did correct her.

she chose to poo in her pants because up until you started potty training her she always had something against her skin when she pooed. it is what feels most comfortable for her, it is what is natural for her. i agree that children should learn to use the potty and grow away from pooing in pants but the way to do it is to praise it when she does it and ignore it when she doesn't. when you show dissaproval to a child for doing something that feels sooo natural it can be very confusing and it makes the pooing an 'issue' that they feel they have to hide or try and stop themselves from doing. this can create problems with constipation.

kids do it when they are ready - i certainly wouldn't go on holiday and spend it washing undies and scraping shit - the kid would have a nappy on - for his wellbeing and for mine - so we can concentrate on enjoying things.

so the kid doesn't wan't to go to the toilet yet - its not a biggee . leave him and stick a nappy on - i mean its not like he will get to 18 and still be shitting his pants - his time will come.

Ime, "praise & disapprove" works much better in potty training than "praise & ignore".

Friends who ignored accidents and cleaned them up without a word ended up with DC peeing their pants everywhere, oblivious that it was a problem.

You can say 'Oh dear, I would rather you tried to use the potty when you need a poo' to let them know it's not OK is quite enough. Punishment is going to turn it into a matter of stress and angst - and that rarely results in the desired goal I've found

Damn right, Cotedazur.

The good old carrot and stick approach (not necessarily literally )

I'm amazed at the incredible levels of tolerance some on this thread are happy to display re: pooey pants.

To me , it actually would be a big deal, and one I certainly wouldn't happily tolerate in a 3 year old of mine (unless SN).

Nobody is talking about punishment.

Oh, the thread title was 'Is it always wrong to punish'.

So would you tolerate idiopathic constipation then Martha?

Because turn these things into a big issue and thats what you get.

Hence evidence based practice is to praise and ignore.

Its a case of waiting for their psychological development to catch up.

personally I would rather tolerate cleaning up poo than have a child unwell through being constipated

I am astounded at this thread.

2.9yo is still young for potty training, and for getting it right.

Many many children do not manage until they are well over 3yo. And they may be able to control their weeing but still have problems with poo.

My DS was physically not able to recognise when he needed to use the toilet until after he started Kindergarten, and that was age 3.2yo.

I never "punished" or expressed disapproval. A gentle "whoops, did you not make it to the loo in time, perhaps next time" is enough.

I left him in nappies until I felt that he was really recognising that he needed to go. Sitting him on a potty for hours defeats the purpose. If you sit them on the potty for a long time, then eventually they will do something. Does not mean that they are able to control it.

Quite mme. First time round I started potty training at 2.3. Took ages to get him completely clean and dry. DD left it until she was 3 and did it almost overnight. Ditto DS#2 at about 3.4. No angst, almost no accidents at all.

I read that if you start training earlier, the DC take longer to train so are not actually out of nappies earlier.

DD was 2.5yo, DS 3.5yo and "trained" within a week or so.

Both my dc's were out of day nappies and accident free before their second birthdays.

I praised everything as they were just so tiny, so it was 'oooh well done you did a wee/poo' regardless of where they did it, just with the addition of 'next time lets see if we can do it in the potty' if it was on the floor/in their pants.

Obviously they got far greater praise for 'getting it right' than 'getting it wrong' but the whole thing must have felt very positive for them as they learnt very quickly.

I think society in general has become much more tolerant towards dcs still in nappies after their 3rd birthdays.

When ds started pre school in 2003 aged 2.9 , the staff there would not have been prepared to change any nappies- any dc still 'unreliable' would have needed a parent/carer in attendance.

But my sister recently discovered that 3 NT children in her child's reception class were still in daytime nappies.

I still think it's possible to be too laid back about the processs.