4yr Old DD not showing any signs of being dry at night. Is this normal? What can I do to encourage it?

[MyCatsAScarierBastardThanYours]

She is dry in the day apart from the odd accident and a relapse when DS was born. But, there has been no sign of dryness at night apart from 3 nights not long after DS was born.

We don't have any drinks after 6pm and no milk at bed time and we make sure she has a wee before going to bed. But, we are still having wet nights (she wears the dry nites pants) with virtually no sign (apart from noted above) of it being dry.

She isn't bothered, should I be or should I just wait longer.

its perfectly normal. doctors wont evenconsider youfor enueresis clinci till age seven, and even then, all they usually do is monitor it.
ds2 didnt have a single dry night till age five, and then it was a fluke, either that or strong will power on his part, we had the oppurtunity to have a sleepover at my aunts house, and the only thing stopping us, was him, lol, not lack of toothbrushes, or clothes.
ds1 was eventually dry at 5.6 and ds2 at 6.5 with the odd accident till his seventh birthday. we used drynites pyjama pants as the pullups werent able to withstand the sheer amount of wee a child that age produces. just put a plastic, adult incontinence mattress cover under bedsheet. get your dd to handle her own 'nappy pants' as we called them, ie, dress herself, and bin them herself, and any wet sheets into the washing machine. giving them control over things is very very helpful for their selfesteem.
try to relax andgo with the flow.

ooh, and dd trained her self well before her third birthday. and about two years before her older brother did. kids are all variable

OK thank you - that's kind of what I thought, that she just isn't ready. The fact that she isn't bothered tells me she isn't really mentally ready as well as physically. I will get her to put her wet nappies in the bin (we call them her night pants) and help do the washing if she leaks at night (that helped with the daytime training). My DN is 4.6 and only got dry at night in the last 2 mths so DD at just 4 could be like her.

It's completely normal to be wet at night at that age - and enuresis clinics won't normally see them until 7.

Night time dryness is largely down to the production of a hormone which slows urine production down at night. Until that is at a high enough level night dryness is unlikely - the hormone usually reaches a high enough level any time between 3 and 6 but for some it's much later.

Don't make her help with the washing if she leaks as a punishment - her being wet at night is beyond her control. The same goes for offering rewards for being dry in the morning - you are essentially rewarding something a child cannot influence or change.

This is helpful I think

Absolutely normal. My ds2 often wet at night till he was 6. We used to have PJ's and clean sheets on standby. When he was wet he came through to us and we quickly changed him and the bed, put him back in everyone went back to sleep. Wasn't a big deal at all.He'd then get straight in the bath when he got up in the morning. We didn't use pull ups as they gave him a rash.

Great link, thanks. I shall have a good read of that later.

I'll not stress about it for now then (particularly as she isn't worried) and get on with things.

Wont use treats or punishments either, especially as she cant help it.

Thankyou for the advise and reassurance everyone.

squidey, the laundry thing was never a punishment, just him taking control over his own stuff. it was empowering for him. he couldnt control the wetting, but he could control this, and it helped him. iyswim.

you cant punish or reward something out of their control. it just causes self esteem issues.

i like mine to be dry by four
if they are not showing signs i just take them out of nappies and restrict drinks from 5 pm

i then lift at 11

this usually takes about a week before dry

i might be just lucky bit mine have gone from sopping nappies to dry beds in 7 days

My DD1 was 6 before she was reliably dry at night, & DD2 was 9. I wish we'd had Pampers dry nights or similar which would have prevented the stress. And kids are all different, DS was dry day & night at 2.

squidgy - just reading through the link you sent (thank you) and it does actually suggest getting the children to help you change the bedclothes. It also talks about giving rewards for steps achieved (not necessarily going through the night dry, but for getting up for a wee, telling you the bed is wet, etc).

Just talked to DH about it and we'll leave it a couple of weeks and try her again (she's been a bit of a diva last few days because of her birthday) and we'll try various things and if it doesn't work, we'll leave it and wait again til she seems more ready.

Thanks for al the advice everyone.

MyCats - yes, getting older children to help change bedding etc can be useful as it involves them in the process and makes them feel part of the plan to help them achieve dryness - we used to advise children at our clinics to be involved but they were 7 or older. In younger children they don't necessarily have the cognitive development to understand that process and might see it as a punishment (and occasionally I have seen it used as a punishment as well.) Of course it can be done in a matter of fact way with no implication of wrongdoing.

Absolutely as you said re rewards - you must reward the behaviour and not the outcome. The behaviour is something they can do something about ie waking up if they need a wee and not just lying there doing it in the bed, making sure they have their 6-8 drinks a day etc. The outcome is beyond their control. I saw a child in my clinic whose dad had said that if she stopped wetting the bed by xxxx date he would take the family to Disneyland Paris - completely unreasonable IMO and put the poor girl under so much pressure for something she couldn't actually achieve. Far better to reward the achievable.

Good luck

Do you know what time she's wetting? Most 4yos are quite savvy to the fact that you can wee in a nappy/pull-up and therefore will do a morning wee in their nappy instead of getting up and going to the loo. Not bad behaviour (it is, after all, what nappies are for), and possibly not deliberate (not fully awake, but no incentive to listen to cues from the bladder). If she's willing to give it a go, I would get a waterproof sheet and have a stab for a week or two.

Thanks Squidgey. I'll not ask her to change the sheets with us then but I'll give the rewards a go (for weeing in the potty/toilet before she goes to bed and if she manages to use it in the night).

ches - I think it is very early in the morning now, but it was late at night beforehand (around 2am). I think she'd wake up doinhg it and couldn't stop. I suspect your right about the just weeing in it because she can thing though. I don't think I've given it a long enough go yet tbh. DS is still waking in the night and the thought of another night disturbance is putting me off! Not fair on DD though so I'll be brave and start (soon, I promise).