At wits end with training

[kallia]

DD is 2 years 10 months. No SEN or indicators that we are aware of. We are on attempt #4 with potty training (started at 2 years 5 months when she started communicating that she needed a wee/poo) and she has been in knickers for a week. After a few days she had got the hang of poos, does a great job, can sit on potty and try really hard. Most poos are on potty with occasional accident - great!

The problem is she will not try, at all, to do a wee. If she needs a wee she will refuse to sit on potty altogether - even the gentlest suggestion of “why don’t we sit on potty and read a book?” results in a complete meltdown, screaming, kicking, for about 20 minutes before she will even sit down. After 10 seconds she will say “finished, no wee” and move on - sometimes having an accident a few minutes later.

For the last week she has only had accidents. She is not fussed about being wet and told me today that “wet knickers are better than wee on potty”.

I have tried:

• Oh Crap (naked from waist down) - she doesn’t like this much as she gets too cold and wants to wear her big girl knickers. Also she won’t let me put the potty under her whilst she is weeing.
• potty watch/timer - she simply won’t sit if she needs to go
• sticker chart (“I don’t like stickers”)

Health visitor just helpfully said that I should encourage her to wee in case she gets a UTI (I am, but encouragement is getting me nowhere). Nursery are sweet and supportive - apparently she tries really hard at nursery and occasionally gets it, but she won’t try for me.

I honestly want to cry, I have no help or support and the advice out there seems reliant on the fact that your child will at least sit on the potty without a tantrum! I want to give up but she’s clearly ready as she can tell me when she needs a wee, she just refuses to go on the potty.

How long til I can expect some sort of result? Should I just give up altogether?

Any success stories “from the other side” would give me support!

Obviously it won't help at this stage to mention that when we did Oh Crap! over Christmas we had to massively crank up the heating and were all sweltering. So DS wasn't cold but it did feel ridiculous to be sitting round the house in December in t-shirts. We also didn't offer underwear for a few weeks after we'd finished (just commando under leggings) so he couldn't get too excited about them. In your case, if she already really likes her knickers that ship has sailed, but could it work in your favour if you keep going but put her in pull-ups? It might motivate her to get the knickers back by successfully staying dry in pull-ups... It would be a shame to give up when the poos are going so well.

My ds never “went potty”. He refused. We got him a loo seat with steps and he used that happily. So it wasn’t easy - we couldn’t really go anywhere for a few weeks.

I do believe that they will learn pretty quickly when they are ready … can you leave it a few months and return to it in summer?

Re. the toilet steps - I was also wondering if nursery is using potties or whether they have little toilets that she prefers. My DS used the potty for the first couple of days then insisted that he was a big boy and therefore only went on the toilet (though he will use his portable potty when out and about).

We also read loads of books about children using the potty. My favourite was called Poo Poo Bum Bum Wee Wee, which was mainly about being someone who already uses the toilet and knows how to ask for it, not about the toilet training process. DS's favourite was the Hey Duggee one.

We actually tried Oh Crap over the summer during the heatwave, but she hated having a potty out under her whilst she was weeing - still does. If I try she just runs away trailing wee everywhere!

We have tried gentle training in pull ups over the last few months, encouraging her to keep them dry, but it didn’t work as she just refused to sit on potty altogether. I’ve had to take them away to get her to try at all.

Given that she’s got the hang of pooing so quickly I’m really loathe to put her back into nappies again. Also we have a new baby coming in the summer so it won’t be the best time to train.

its very clear that she knows how to wee/poo and can control it (never has an accident when we are out, for example!) but doesn’t want to use the potty and prefers to be wet.

Dd2 is 3 and still refusing to try. They won't do it until they're ready, she's got plenty of time. I'd stop give her a break and re try soon again

We also have toilet steps and a toddler seat, so she has a choice all the time about potty or toilet. She usually chooses potty.

Any books for your DC on it.

Mine loved Pip & Posy one and the Princess Potty one with sounds

The Pip and Posy one was about having accidents and seemed to get through to both of mine

Honestly, if I give up now I’m not going to do it at all. I can’t go through this week again, I really can’t.

She almost got it last summer but couldn’t self initiate so everyone said put her back into nappies, and I caved. Wish I hadn’t and just stuck with taking her every couple of hours, she was otherwise dry. Now it’s a thousand times worse.

We actually did train with a new baby - we hadn't planned to, but nursery was closed over Christmas so it seemed a good opportunity. I actually think in DS's case it made him want to do it more. He wanted to be 'babied' in other ways when sibling arrived, but was quite keen to be a big boy with the potty instead of a baby like his brother. So don't give up hope!

Also: could those cloth training pants be a middle ground - like knickers but more padded?

Yes, she had Princess Polly and Where’s My Potty. She knows exactly what to do on it, if you ask she can answer questions about it. Just says “I don’t like potty” and when I ask if she likes having wet knickers she says “yes, wet knickers, don’t like potty”

She is currently in padded cloth training knickers.

Is that what you've been using as big girl knickers the whole time? In that case, would you consider commando with leggings? If the accidents are all down her legs and on her shoes, she might be a bit less happy about them?

If she knows when she needs a wee but is just refusing to sit on the potty and would rather do it in pants then you have a behavioural issue really, rather than a potty training issue.

Stop asking her to sit, stop mentioning it all, you don’t want to make it a battle of wills. Just make sure the potty is right next to her. Then I think you need to find a motivator. A smartie for every potty use, tiny toys wrapped up from the pound shop, 5 stickers and she gets a new barbie… whatever you need to do!

Also, take as long as you can to clean up accidents and make her help by wiping it up, putting her own stuff in the machine, getting her own clean clothes, getting changed by herself as much as possible, the idea being that she’ll learn by herself it’s much easier to use the potty. I also wouldn’t be afraid to say she can only go to the playground, or wherever (somewhere she wants to go obviously!) until she does a wee first.

The above all worked for my DD anyway! She still is very stubborn but we eventually cracked potty training. I got to her brother before 2 to avoid a similar battle of wills and honestly it was easier!

Good luck!

yes, padded cloth ones to absorb some of it. She has few (2-3) very big wees a day, so it usually goes into her shoes anyway, even with the padding. I’m on a constant shoe washing cycle!

If feel your pain, my eldest was like this. It took multiple attempts and multiple regressions before we finally, gradually, very gradually got there. Oh Crap did not work for us and set unrealistic expectations for me as well. We also had a second baby just before she turned three and it all went massively backwards again for a few weeks. Speaking to friends it's not that uncommon.

My advice is to handle it with as much patience as you possibly can. When she has a wee accident I found it helped to be very matter of fact. You've done a wee, you're wet, we need to stop what we're doing to get you changed and clean up.

At points I felt so very demoralised by it. But speaking to her now she's older (she's 4, has been "dry' for nearly a year) she says she just didn't realise her body needed a wee. Like yours she really wasn't bothered by wet knickers, so unless I stepped in she would carry on merrily. Good luck, it's difficult not to feel frustrated but they're just learning. With my youngest, now just turned one we started putting her on the toilet for poos daily from when she could sit up. We'll see how potty training goes this time round! Definitely not my favourite part of parenting...

The potty is always in the same room as her. She just stands up and wees and watches it. Not bothered at all. if I ask her to clean up it is always a complete tantrum (she does do it eventually however).

I do think it is behavioural especially as she has got the hang of pooing so quickly. If we are out and about she won’t wet herself either - just at home and with me. She is a delightful but very strong willed young lady and won’t do anything she doesn’t want to without a fight!

She isn’t motivated by anything, I offer her sticker/smartie/toy etc and she says yes, I say “it’s for after doing a wee on potty” and she says “don’t like it, don’t want it”. Basically, being stubborn for her is worth more than anything I can offer!

This all reads as though you are making a bit of an issue about it.

At two and a half I bought ds some big boy pants and we had a stab at it. He wasn't ready. A month later we had another go - not interested. Both times we went back into baby nappies for the baby boy.

We reached September and it got a bit chilly and I just thought. "Ah well, he'll be three". At exactly 2 years and 8 months getting ready for a trip to the supermarket "want pants, big boy"! Off we went and at the queue "mummy, wee wee". Off we trotted. That was it. He never had an accident and was dry at night a month later. He would only poo in a pull-up fir about another three months but it wasn't a problem. He just asked for it.

DD was a bit more challenging. She was a month older than DS and for a long time would only use the potty - she was scared of the toilet, unless it was a little one or had a little seat and her step. She used the potty until she was about 4 and many a time I had to find a drain because she wouldn't sit on a "strange" toilet. I lifted her at bedtime until she was 5.

I think you mustn't make a big deal of it.

Thank you. How long did it take with your oldest? We’ve been trying basically for 6 months and I feel I’ve achieved nothing, not a single wee on the potty. Does it really just “click” one day?

Just read that you make her help clean it up. I am shocked. No wonder she hasnpoor associations with it.

I’m not making an issue of it with her, obviously. I’m very casual and patient. But each evening I just sob, catching up on all my clothes that are covered in wee and wishing my house smelled of something other than urine/disinfectant.

As I said, this is attempt #4. I’ve always thought “oh well, she’ll get there on her own time” and gone back to nappies. But now it’s very clear she can do it. She knows how. (My mother took her for a weekend a few months ago and she was dry the entire time - by choice - just walked to the potty and used it. I came back and she wouldn’t even think about it.)

She can do it, but she doesn’t want to. I don’t believe that one day she’s going to change her mind and ask for it.

I make her pick up her wet knickers and put them in the machine. Then she goes and picks up a dry pair. It’s age appropriate and not traumatic at all. Don’t come over all shocked.

Yikes, you’re in a real power struggle. Whilst I don’t love the method there’s some really helpful stuff in the Oh Crap book about exactly that. I would give it a re-read.

Also, if she’s not having accidents out of the house- can you take her out all day? Somewhere outdoorsy with a change of clothes packed just in case plus the potty of course. It might get her to use it!
(ignore if you’ve already tried)

Thanks! We do quite a bit actually, but she tends to hold it all day and I’m worried that might risk a UTI?

I think you are making it sound about control, there is no need to sob every night, just put her back in pull-ups and leave it until mid May.