At wits end with training

[kallia]

DD is 2 years 10 months. No SEN or indicators that we are aware of. We are on attempt #4 with potty training (started at 2 years 5 months when she started communicating that she needed a wee/poo) and she has been in knickers for a week. After a few days she had got the hang of poos, does a great job, can sit on potty and try really hard. Most poos are on potty with occasional accident - great!

The problem is she will not try, at all, to do a wee. If she needs a wee she will refuse to sit on potty altogether - even the gentlest suggestion of “why don’t we sit on potty and read a book?” results in a complete meltdown, screaming, kicking, for about 20 minutes before she will even sit down. After 10 seconds she will say “finished, no wee” and move on - sometimes having an accident a few minutes later.

For the last week she has only had accidents. She is not fussed about being wet and told me today that “wet knickers are better than wee on potty”.

I have tried:

• Oh Crap (naked from waist down) - she doesn’t like this much as she gets too cold and wants to wear her big girl knickers. Also she won’t let me put the potty under her whilst she is weeing.
• potty watch/timer - she simply won’t sit if she needs to go
• sticker chart (“I don’t like stickers”)

Health visitor just helpfully said that I should encourage her to wee in case she gets a UTI (I am, but encouragement is getting me nowhere). Nursery are sweet and supportive - apparently she tries really hard at nursery and occasionally gets it, but she won’t try for me.

I honestly want to cry, I have no help or support and the advice out there seems reliant on the fact that your child will at least sit on the potty without a tantrum! I want to give up but she’s clearly ready as she can tell me when she needs a wee, she just refuses to go on the potty.

How long til I can expect some sort of result? Should I just give up altogether?

Any success stories “from the other side” would give me support!

Giving her lots of praise and encouragement probably tells her how much you care about it though. I personally don't really believe in small children pushing boundaries as I don't think that's the way their brains work. I think they don't have the emotional intelligence to manage or regulate their emotions which is why they can be all over the place but I do think they can tell if we are dysregulated ourselves.

I hear what you're saying that not all children will choose to potty train on their own but what I meant was that you have plenty of time to find out whether that's true of your child or not and to act accordingly. Right now she seems to be telling you pretty categorically that she isn't ready and it's causing you to doubt your parenting skills so I don't think it's worth forcing.

At the end of the day we can all give experiences but as you will already know, there's generally no right way of doing things and all children are different. Try to trust yourself and do what you feel is best not what you feel you should be doing on a timetable to suit someone else or some parenting manual written by a random person who has never met you or your child.

Yes, that’s why I’m going to ease off the praise and be indifferent about it. Not show her I care either way. Hopefully she will work out for herself that it’s a choice between being wet or being dry. If she doesn’t, well, I’ll try and find some bigger nappies and go back to those.

Perhaps pushing boundaries is the wrong phrase. She’s little and she feels safe with me, so she tries out new things with me if she’s not sure how they go down with other people. Sometimes this is sweet/funny/delightful and at other times more challenging behaviour. I think she’s trying to see what will happen if she pushes back on the potty - but idk what’s going on inside her little head!

honestly, if it’s a trust your instinct thing, my instinct is that I need to keep going. I wish I had last time, she was so much better then and more willing to try, and we got further! But I caved and now I think she’s waiting for me to do the same this time.

I’m not doubting my parenting. I’m a good mother. But she’s my first and I’ve never trained a child before. I have no idea if I’m doing the right thing - the advice out there is so vague that I can’t know if I’m doing it right or wrong.

Hi @kallia i have a 2.5 year old who is similar. My issue in our case was that I kept asking her if she needed to go and I think that’s what irritated her. So I stopped asking and waited for her to initiate. She did wet herself and I tried the very relaxed approach of clean up and indifference and it didn’t work.

i know this goes against all recommendations but I found if I was cross with her it actually seemed to resonate. I wasn’t angry and shouting but I said the words wee wee goes in the toilet not in your knickers. Mummy is not happy.

i completely understand that we shouldn’t guilt them etc. and I said it because I was genuinely not happy but it seemed to change something in her and the next few times she weed in toilet she would say mummy happy? I felt awful inside because it’s like she was pleasing me but it helped her realise that listening to her body and weeing in appropriate place made things happy for everyone!

Sorry but that really is awful!!! You shouldn't be teaching your child in any circumstances that it's their job to make you happy! Or guilt tripping her into behaving in a certain way to please you. You obviously feel bad about it because it didn't sit right with you so you know it wasn't the right thing to do.

I used chocolate buttons when my 2 were potty training. Only for a few days but it was a huge motivator to just get them past the first few days where there's nothing in it for them

@supercalafragilisticexpealidocious l completely agree that our children shouldn’t do actions to make us happy.

i guess what I was trying to say is that it’s okay to have a reaction. I shouldn’t have said the words mum isn’t happy but if she has accidents I actually find a firm voice of saying wee wee goes in the toilet helps reinforce the intended behaviour. It isn’t to scare her into weeing in the toilet but I don’t think indifference works with every child and it certainly didn’t seem to work. A natural consequence of being wet did not bother my child neither did the clean up- but explaining where wee goes and reinforcing that point seemed to resonate and statements like listen to your body.

unfortunstely I shouldn’t have reacted with words mummy isn’t happy as of course I don’t want her to do actions for me specifically.

Well, she’s definitely developmentally ready. DH was home this morning so he got her up and asked her if she wanted potty first thing. She ran to the potty and did a wee! Then she went to nursery today, was dry all day. Bingo.

When I picked her up I asked if she wanted to go, she threw the expected tantrum. I ignored it and eventually we played together, had some fun, she chilled out. Then I suggested it again and she said no, don’t need wee. Then she wet herself about 2 mins later!

So I do think it’s just she’s got herself into a habit of saying no to me. I’m going to try complete indifference, I just said nothing and cleaned her up. If no results in a week or so, then we will have to try something else, but if she can do it for other people there’s no developmental reason why she can’t do it for me - I think?!