At wits end with training

[kallia]

DD is 2 years 10 months. No SEN or indicators that we are aware of. We are on attempt #4 with potty training (started at 2 years 5 months when she started communicating that she needed a wee/poo) and she has been in knickers for a week. After a few days she had got the hang of poos, does a great job, can sit on potty and try really hard. Most poos are on potty with occasional accident - great!

The problem is she will not try, at all, to do a wee. If she needs a wee she will refuse to sit on potty altogether - even the gentlest suggestion of “why don’t we sit on potty and read a book?” results in a complete meltdown, screaming, kicking, for about 20 minutes before she will even sit down. After 10 seconds she will say “finished, no wee” and move on - sometimes having an accident a few minutes later.

For the last week she has only had accidents. She is not fussed about being wet and told me today that “wet knickers are better than wee on potty”.

I have tried:

• Oh Crap (naked from waist down) - she doesn’t like this much as she gets too cold and wants to wear her big girl knickers. Also she won’t let me put the potty under her whilst she is weeing.
• potty watch/timer - she simply won’t sit if she needs to go
• sticker chart (“I don’t like stickers”)

Health visitor just helpfully said that I should encourage her to wee in case she gets a UTI (I am, but encouragement is getting me nowhere). Nursery are sweet and supportive - apparently she tries really hard at nursery and occasionally gets it, but she won’t try for me.

I honestly want to cry, I have no help or support and the advice out there seems reliant on the fact that your child will at least sit on the potty without a tantrum! I want to give up but she’s clearly ready as she can tell me when she needs a wee, she just refuses to go on the potty.

How long til I can expect some sort of result? Should I just give up altogether?

Any success stories “from the other side” would give me support!

My mother took her for a weekend a few months ago and she was dry the entire time - by choice - just walked to the potty and used it
Would your mum take her again? Worth trying for a reset to see if it’ll stick this time!

Some kids are just camels, my DD was one too, there’s a whole chapter in the Oh Crap book about it (another reason for a reread) so it must be common enough. It’s hard as less opportunities for success!

If I can avoid putting her back in pull-ups I will as (a) she is outgrowing them, so they now leak, (b) she has cracked pooing which is wonderful and I don’t want to lose that and (c) I think we would have the same problem in a few months. She mostly dry at nursery, as I said, so I don’t think it’s a her problem - it’s me!

I will stop asking her to put her knickers in the machine if that is stressing her. I’m
happy to do it.

Sorry if I come across as miserable. I don’t have any friends or family locally to vent to, so I do just get lonely as no support. Ma lives abroad unfortunately.

I sympathise with you, we are a year on and haven't really cracked poohs and he's all of a sudden started begging for nappies for wees (he has a younger brother and will help himself and we've had to hide them). I get how frustrating it is.

I find the ERIC website helpful, it may have some ideas.

Personally I'd take her shopping and get her to choose her own proper knickers and stop using the padded ones.

Sounds more like she's pushing the boundaries with you and you need to stay consistent and patient.

thanks for the reassurance, appreciate it.

99% of the time she is an utterly lovely, lovely little girl, so it’s really out of character - that’s what’s so frustrating!

She’ll get there. If you went back to pull ups before she probably just needs the realisation that you’re serious this time. Whatever you’re doing stay calm and consistent. React to all accidents with a really banal ‘oh dear, wee goes in the potty’ and quickly move on.

Also, I don’t think she’s stressed at all by putting her knickers in the machine BTW- it’s a perfectly fair and age appropriate natural consequence. That said, if it’s not having results with her, by all means try something else and perhaps less attention not more, will get results. Don’t be drawn into a battle of wills, no one can out stubborn an almost 3YO!

I feel your pain! My DD is almost 3 and she just isn't interested at all. I've given up and will try again next month. My eldest was so easy to train so it makes it all the more challenging.

The way I see it is that no adult I know still has to wear nappies so they all do get there eventually don't they. It is frustrating though. I'm hoping for warmer weather in April then I can try again.

I’m pretty much doing this already so it’s really helpful to know I’m sort of on the right track, thank you. I think that’s what’s frustrating, I have no idea if I’m doing the right or wrong thing and with no results I have no reassurance that it’s going ok.

Ok, I’m going to try going no consequences at all. She’s not that fussed by stickers/rewards really so I’m going to act like I don’t care either way and maybe she won’t get the satisfaction that she’s fighting what Mummy wants and just do it (we can but hope).

It’s worth a try right?!

Also I know she’s not there yet but there are significant successes- she’s pooing on the potty, she knows when she needs a wee, she using the potty for poos and wees at nursery, she never has accidents out of the house. That’s all progress from just going in her nappy! Sometimes I don’t think all these ‘3 day method’ and ‘potty training 1 week’ type plans are helpful, because that just isn’t realistic for a lot of kids. The rest will come!

I’m not expecting her to get there in a few days, or a few weeks, or even a couple of months. I’d just like to feel she was trying to help me out. I know that’s a lot (and probably unreasonable) to ask of a 2/3 year old, but right now I don’t have any support and I’m exhausted with all the washing, cleaning and drying every evening.

I know in theory they’ll “get there in their own time” (although having worked in a primary school I know that this isn’t always the case) but it’s not very cheering to think how many more months/years there can be of this.

It probably took about a year, and we had definite periods of regression along the way. There wasn't a "it's finally clicked" moment

Oh god. I’m not sure I can take a year of this!!!

since posting I tried the “not insisting, just prompting” method. Suggested she sit on potty, got a vehement “no! Don’t want it!”. I said ok and left it. A minute later she had done a poo in her knickers.

I said nothing and just cleaned it up. She then did another one in her fresh undies.

DD just gone to bed so I’m spending my evening doing multiple loads of laundry and Dettolling the house, as usual. On the plus side you can’t really regress from this!

I know you're adamant you don't want to go back to pull ups but gently this shouldn't be this hard. I was taught if it's hard, they're not properly ready and you risk making it harder for them by pursuing it/ causing mess / upset. She'll get there. My advice would be to pop her in pull ups and try and to relax about the whole thing. I always think if you're sick of a situation/ the sound of your own voice ot whatever you can be sure your kids will be too and that's never a good place to lead from. Good luck.

You need to give up and wait until she is ready. It's utter madness to try and force it.

I tried to force my DD and it turned into total hell with her distraught and distressed in the end. We gave up after three days. I took the pressure off entirely after that and waited until she was more than ready (ie she was telling us she needed to go and was happily going on the potty before bed/bath). That time it took a few days with very few accidents and no stress.

Can you bribe with chocolate buttons? I know people would be horrified by that but it worked for us 😅stickers just weren’t good enough!

I don't know why you're forcing her. She's just not ready? I'd leave it until she actually asks to do a wee on the toilet herself.

I’m not forcing her. I believe she’s ready because I know she can be clean and dry - she was with my mother a couple of months ago for a whole weekend and mostly is at nursery. She also uses potty/toilet for my DH, and for me when it’s a poo. It’s just me and wees she won’t do. Unfortunately I’m her primary caregiver so she’s with me most of the time.

She is actually far worse now than when I first tried a few months ago, because then she wasn’t fighting me on it. She tried her best but had a few accidents and everyone said “put her back into pull-ups” - now she knows that’s an option, she keeps asking me for it.

I tried bribing with chocolate but she just said “I don’t like chocolate” (lies 😂).

I’m going to try “active indifference” and pretend I don’t care whether or not she sits on the potty. If that doesn’t work in a week, maybe I’ll give up again. But if I give up I’m not trying again - I’m done.

I know you’re coming from a place of kindness but gently, it’s comments like this that make me so upset. “It shouldn’t be this hard” is what I hear from everyone. Ok - so why is it? Have I failed? What am I doing wrong? I have no idea what I’m doing, I freely admit that, all the advice just suggests that they will pick it up eventually without me doing anything.

”they’ll get there in their own time” - I was a primary school teacher and that was the excuse I heard from so many parents who had left it to the child to self initiate, and they weren’t trained by 4/5 years of age. Some children don’t ask, they’d rather stay in nappies. DD has told me that she finds pullups “easy” and potty “hard” so she’d rather wear pullups.

If it shouldn’t be this hard, what have I done wrong?!

You have not done anything wrong, it's just some kids are more stubborn than others! I do understand your frustration as my daughter is exactly the same and that's why I keep putting it off.

I don't think you can do anything other than you already are and keep up with the indifference.

Just here to give some solidarity.

I also work in education and when I was teaching nursery and parents said before the summer holidays that their child wasn't toilet trained my heart would sink because I knew that by September it would be me who would be training them. Now my DD is 2.5yo and due to start nursery in September and despite doing all the "right" things from when she was less than a year old; reusable nappies, nappy free time, potty around for her to sit on, put her on the potty before baths/bed and on waking up but she still isn't potty trained. I did stickers at one point to just get her to sit on the potty, it worked for a few days until she said "Don't need any more stickers, too many now"

I read threads on here where mums are accused of laziness because their child isn't trained and are told "Just let them be naked and put them on the potty every half an hour" my DD goes all stiff or dead weights and screams if I try to get her to sit anywhere she doesn't want to so I'm not sure how that's helpful.

Latest bribe I've seen is they get to blow out a special candle every time they sit on the potty, going to try again in the Easter holidays and give that one a go!

If you're saying she is fine using the potty with other people and at nursery then it must be what's going on between the two of you tHats the issue.

You've clearly attached an awful lot of value and importance to "solving" this as a problem and you seem to be putting a huge amount of pressure on yourself to get her potty trained and are beating yourself up over it hugely too. Your DD will undoubtedly be picking up on this and your stress and anxiety even if you think you're being chilled about it and not showing her how desperate it is making you.

I really think you need to remove the pressure from both of you. I know you're worried about her going to school and not being trained but you're catastrophising. She's not even three yet. If you get to 6 months or a years' time and she's not interested and still fighting you then you might have slightly more grounds to worry but not right now. You're not going to forget to potty train her.

Honestly give yourself a break. You've tried. You aren't neglecting her or your responsibilities. You've done what you can for now.

If she goes to the toilet/ potty for your DH but not you, could he take a week's leave? That might be enough to get her into the habit of it. Or something else involving him (collect stickers so she can show him how many times she's used the potty that day or something?)

I would suggest taking the pressure off and just being indifferent about it. If I suggested to mine they should sit on the potty/toilet they would just scream about it and then wet themselves. It was probably 2 weeks or more before we were getting the majority of wees in the toilet. And then we still had daily accidents at home for a good few months. But none in childcare or when we were out so I knew they could do it.

I wouldn't go back to nappies for this reason. She can do it at nursery and with grandparents, so she is just trying to push the boundary with you. Show her you mean business this time.

I’m going to be indifferent. I’m not showing her my upset but I have been giving lots of praise and encouragement, so I’m going to try without and see if that makes a difference. Like most toddlers, she pushes boundaries more with me (primary caregiver) than others so I guess this is another way of doing that.

She’s not perfect with DH or nursery by any means but she tries very hard. Unfortunately DH can’t get leave for 3 more weeks but then he is going to help lots over Easter, so if I can push through until then I will.

I’m not catastrophising about her not being ready for school - we plan to home educate anyway for the first couple of years so it’s somewhat irrelevant - but I’m saying that in my experience, not all children actively self initiate potty training. Whilst I'm happy to give up, I’m not 100 % convinced that DD will definitely just decide one day she is going to use the toilet. If I stop now, I’m giving up for good - 4 times is long enough to know that I can’t do it.

It’s good to know I’m not the only one with a stubborn child and to hear other stories. I just have no frame of reference and no idea whether I’m doing the right thing or not, and don’t want to spend another week knee deep in disinfectant only to find out I’m getting it completely wrong and wasting our time!

If she can do it elsewhere then it’s about control. Remember she hasn’t read the book , she doesn’t know that it says she must do it by a certain age,she’s been in the world less than three years . She just knows that it matters a lot to mummy and it’s a really good way of getting attention ( any attention good or bad is valuable to them at this age) .

When I was battling with my ds over this someone on here ( 20 odd years ago) posted that at 3 there is very little in their little lives that they have absolute control over ,the only things really being what they swallow and where it comes out ! You need to let go, it’s very hard but ( and believe me I have sat in the floor sobbing too ) she needs to believe that you don’t care about it , and after all it doesn’t really matter , she’s not yet three , it not worth ruining your relationship for. Does she know about the baby , that could also be part of the equation.