What happens to little ones starting primary school in pull ups/ nappies ?

[Wishithoughtbeforeispeak]

I feel a complete fail as a parent my DS is going to start school this week in pull ups ! We have tried everything, we've seen the health visitor about 12 months ago and she gave me a range of thing to try and nothing has worked. He is great with poos hasn't had an accident for six months if not longer yet seems completely unable to tell if he needs a wee. I even take him to the toilet with me and as I'm going ask him if he needs to go he will say no and then when I put him on there anyway he will wee saying he was bursting! I'm worried sick about him going to school in nappies as I'm unsure how it will even work. He was at nursery till July and was able to stay dry there in pants for the last month or so before he left but as soon as I got him home he would be wet within half hour, I put him in pants at home he will not only wee himself but then just sit there playing in the wet clothes / puddle as if it hadn't happened so doesn't even seem to know he's wet ? My mum took him for the day and tried as I was convinced it was just me as he could manage at nursery and he went through so many pants and clothes without knowing he had done it she had to return to my house to get more by mid afternoon ! We have now gone all summer in pull ups as he really has no idea he is seeing in pants and will wee himself in shops at home where ever! I'm at my wits end I don't know how he could stay dry at nursery yet no where else? I kind of hold out hope he may be the same at school but that doesn't help me get him dry at home I managed to train my elder DS before the age of 4 yet my youngest seems impossible. Does anyone have any experience of what happen at school. If they are still in nappies ? Or has anyone else had this with their child ?

What does he say when you talk to him about it?. He's old enough to be having a conversation about the lavatory being where we wees. No pull ups and no allowing him to sit around in wet pants. Tell him off if he doesn't use the loo.
That said, it's a bit late now for school. I'm sure he'll get some ribbing but that maybe not a bad thing. He needs to get continent pretty quickly if he isn't to be labelled by his peers as a bit odd forever more. Harsh but true.
Why is he being allowed to manipulate meals? If there's no choice he'll eat what there is or go hungry. Sounds like he's learned to,control you rather than the other way around. Set the meals, this is what there is or go without. He'll soon learn to be less fussy.

No more pull ups and no more nappies! He needs to learn that being wet isn't nice.

Hopefully to make you feel better, my little boy has just finished reception about to go into year one and last year I think there were 3 boys all in nappies/pull ups at the start of the year. At the end of the year I know at least one of these is still in them. My son is also aware and presume the rest of the class are. I think it's just in a very matter of fact way they get help when they go to the toilet. He has only mentioned it in a negative way when the little boy had poo'd while sat next to him or something and just couldn't get his head around why he would do that but seemed unfazed with the pull-ups themselves if that makes sense.

OP please make an appointment with your Dr, preferably a senior practice partner, and explain the advice you have been given by the HV. Insist on a referral to a paediatrician to rule out physical causes and to explore his behaviour more closely.

Am really shocked at the advice your HV has given you.

Wish, you talk about 'quirks' and difficult behaviour, do you have concerns that something else may be going on?

Crumbs, that is a really unhelpful post.

You sound nice crumbs ! You obviously haven't read the whole thread Manipulate meals ? No he's 41/2 and the size of a two year old ! There is nothing to him you can see his ribs and spine i give him what he wants as if I didn't he would go without and I can't afford for him to lose any weight he's 14 kg and average four year old should be 18kg if you go by the car seats and average 3 year old around 15 kg if you go by pushchair ratings

HazeyJane it's all the things I have mentioned difficultly getting him to eat and drink normal amounts his faddy eating the fact he is small and looks very young for his age a lot of my friends and a few relatives all have babies the same time as me my DS is the oldest yet he looks at least a year younger than them all in height and features he still has baby hair compared to their full heads of hair, the lack of being able to toilet train him. The melt downs you would expect from a younger child you cannot reason with him yet i some ways he is so bright it's amazing the fact he still wants/needs to use a pushchair at 4 1/2 as he says he tired and if out all day will still fall asleep in it. I have spent so long being told I am worrying over nothing I have just got on with things every time I voice my concern I'm told he's fine it's just me

OP, from what you've said I wonder if there is a larger issue at play. I'm not a medical professional so take this for what it's worth, but have you looked into a global development delay? Seems as though there are issues with eating as well as toileting. I would agree with a PP who suggested going to a pediatrician. If at all possible, I would delay his entry into school (I'm not in the U.K. so don't know anything about school admissions.) If he is so tired that he falls asleep during the day perhaps he just needs time to mature? A friend of mine has a child with a global developmental delay and the child has now completely caught up with her peers.

Op your ds sounds like my ds did several years ago - and although he was notionally toilet trained he still struggled to notice when he needed to go to the loo or had had an accident (at least a couple of times a week initially). He was also very tiny for his age (1st percentile), has other symptoms that suggests something is going on but vague and not too serious so although he was investigated for whether or not he needed growth hormone or was hypermobile or dyspraxic etc etc he has mild traits of all these things but not clinically bad enough to be treated but in combination enough to mean he struggles with some things. He also has really bad eyesight and gets tired easily.

You might find that as the school has small toilets too that he is ok with them like he was at nursery and that he does better having 5 days at school to get into the rhythm of it and going to the loo there. Do check him on them though - at ds's settling in day he suddenly needed to go so I took him in and lifted him onto the loo as he couldnt reach - only for him to fall straight through. Oops. Luckily caught him before he went too far and I had to provide a toddler seat to go on top of the actual seat so he could use it. By the end of the year he had grown a bit and had figured a way to balance so it wasn't an issue - which in turn helped him to gain confidence to use a full size loo at home without a toddler seat on.

These days he is still small for his age and is in clothes a couple of years below his actual age, still struggles to drink, even with reminders from me and his teachers, still has to be sent to the loo before we go anywhere or do anything (try to get into a routine that your ds always uses the loo before leavibg school for example if he will go to the loo ok once he settles in)... But - he is getting better and will now rush to the loo if he needs to - he has learnt (finally!) that he needs to stop and go to the loo if he needs to go, his game or programme or comic or meal will still be there when he has finished. But if he has an accident- especially if he is playing on the ipad or watching tv or something fun - then not stopping and having an accident leads to a consequence of not being able to continue. So he is more bpthered by the consequence than the having an accident but as it works at helping to focus his priorities that's fine at the moment!

Also he knows that he can say sorry i need to go to the loo and get up and go - home and school. Discussed this with teachers, got him a toilet pass so they understand he really does need to go when he says he does, he isn't a child that mucks around, he needs it less as he gets older but his teachers are still aware that he isnt trying to be difficult it is just something he struggles with. Depends on the luck of the draw with teachers though - one of his best friends has similar issues and had a different teacher who didn't let him go until she said and he had a lot more accidents which led to other related problems too. So fingers crossed you get an understanding teacher and hopefully it will all help to solve this problem!

Does he have other sensory issues? He seems to have issues with some foods and could his reluctance in pants be anything to do with the feel of them? Could the smell of loos be an issue? We have issues here with public loos. Hopefully the reception ones will be small and purpose built, however he may be expected to use different ones at lunchtime. How is he with socks? One of ours has sensory issues and they were our nemesis! Have you tried a Wobl watch which gives a regular alarm to remind them to go to the loo? It vibrates so is quite discreet.

My d's is 15kg at 5 and a half - yes, he's skinny but not worryingly so. He eats like a hog sometimes and hardly anything at other times. Op - try not to get hung up on his weight!

Take the pull ups away. He stayed dry at nursery so it sounds more like he prefers to be in nappies and thinks you'll just let him. My ds still wants me to spoon feed him - I know he uses cutlery without complaint at school so I've told him in no uncertain terms that I'm not feeding him!

You need to ditch the pull ups and let him be wet the fact he can do it at nursery suggests it isn't medical. Or if you believe it is medical get him referred to a specialist.

I would speak to school keep.him off the first week or two and work on it.

it's a shame to miss his first week or two but worse to send him in pull ups I think.

OP my DS has many of the same issues (partially trained, very slim, faddy eater, will only drink under duress, still needs a daytime nap) and to top it all he withholds poo... He has just turned 3. I understand so well your worry about starting tomorrow (mine will start part-time). When i approached the school in July they were shocked at the thought of any 3-year-old not being fully toilet-trained Thank you to pp for the ERIC link, information is power!

To give you all a bit of hope ladies!

DS was a late starter. He wasn't trained till the summer before he started he was 4.5 years old. Had he been born 2 weeks earlier he'd have been going to school untrained.

He did it himself in 2 days! Dry day and night. Wasn't pushed or persuaded he just did it!

Dc 2 starts this week. She has only just done it. Literally this summer. On her terms! She was dry day and night in 3 days.

It happens. There is so much pressure on children and parents to force natural development for others convenience. It's really not fair. Keep telling you DC how proud you are of them and they have a good chance of doing when they want to.

Is the one of the youngest? If he still regularly falls asleep in the daytime, uses a pushchair, and can't stay dry/still needs pull ups, then he definitely doesn't seem ready for school yet.

He doesn't sound like an awful child, bless him! It dies sound like physically he's dealing with a lot, for whatever reason, and that must be very hard work for you.

If a child needs changing or has an accident in schools they will be changed (although I hear on MN there are schools that don't) but in my experience schools will, so please don't worry too much about that. Also children of Reception age tend to just accept other children for who they are...Johhny who comes three days a week/Paul who refuses to wear socks/Sophie who ducks her thumb all day...at that age it's rare for kids to care or tease about quirks.

But I second the poster who says go to your GP, as it sounds like there's more to this than just not wanting to be potty trained.

I would speak to school keep.him off the first week or two and work on it.
Please don't do this. Let your child go to school with his peers and get stuck in. I've taught reception lots in the past and would rather deal with a few accidents than have a child miss out on the settling in times. And you may well find he clicks with it at school. Many children do.

I agree with myotherprofile. It's really unsettling if DC start later than their peers. Everyone else knows what they're doing.

Can I also suggest going back to GP? A good friend had this with both of her DC and there was a biological issue. It won't solve the problem straight away but you'll be setting things in motion.

I found my ds really loved the routine of school and going to the toilet became part of that routine. Although he could read, the visual aids also really helped, the pictures of toilets on the doors, the pictures of the steps involved. For a while he refused to go at home and was having accident after accident but would go when asked at school which was infuriating and I felt like a complete failure.

The more I tried to push it the more anxious he would get, no form of bribery, rewards, punishment would work and just became a complete battle of wills. In the end I got school to print me all the same visuals and put them up in our bathroom at home. I also took a step back and tried to be more relaxed. It all clicked and he started to go when asked with no fuss. He still needs reminding but stays dry for 3 hours and hardly ever has an accident.

Because you have mentioned meltdowns, food issues and other quirks, did the nursery ever voice any concerns? Are there other developmental delays you're concerned about? If so I would make a list of everything take it to your GP and ask for a referral to a developmental paediatrician.

DS1 started school in nappies, (well stated in pants but after a couple of eeeks of having to change him 5 times a day it was agreed he would go in nappies. he would just wet himself all day and would happily cerrynonnin wet clothes etc
We kept going to the doctor when he was at preschool and were always told he would grow out of it.
When he started school we managed to get a referral and it turned out he had weak core muscles so had physio and hydrotherapy which helped a lot, he also had a wobl watch which we programmed to vibrate at various points during the day (the school worked out he best times for him to go to the toilet) so that he was regularly going to try.
By the end of year 1 he was mostly dry during the day. He's 10 now and will occasionally wet the bed still (a couple of times a month)

Didn't want to read and run. I'll echo all the supportive posters who have gone before - ask your GP to explore deeper potential causes. Your little boy in no way sounds like and 'awful child' - he sounds like a little person who might just need a little bit longer. Glib suggestions that 'no child' does so-and-so blithely forget all the provisions we make for the spectrum of children all with different needs. 'Normal' and 'average' are statistical terms - no two of us in the world are exactly the same, and this might be his own little foible. You WILL find a solution, and whatever it is, so long as it works for you and him, is fine.

Poor you it sounds like he genuinely has problems recognising the urge to go. If it was me I think I would not send him this year and defer until he was 5, especially with the other problems you say he has too. And I think a trip to see the GP might be helpful in case there is a physical problem going on. He may just suddenly get it at some point but I personally don't think I'd send my child to school at 4 if they weren't trained. Good luck I hope it all goes ok x

My son used to poo his pants so I would keep putting him back in pull ups until eventually he got it. It finally clicked and then he used the pull ups like pants. So I don't agree about ditching the pull ups. Sound like you are trying everything and are at your wits end. Does he have short days to start with? Cos in that case a pull up will last the whole session. Both my children were tiny and so I totally understand about giving in to their food whims. People who haven't had tiny kids don't understand that you will give them anything just to make sure they put on weight.

I also think the fact he was dry in nursery, but wet as soon as he left, indicates there is no medical issue here, he is clearly capable and has demonstrated it.

Could there be an element of he thinks it's ok when he's at home or with you, hence his bargaining that he will go into proper underwear when he is seven or eight, which fundamentally allows him to continue to wet himself?

What happens when he soils himself, does he get told it's not ok, is there any reward for going to the loo? Pull ups allow him to feel dry, there is no or limited discomfort, so is there any incentive for him to use the toilet?

The fact he has clearly demonstrated he can go to the toilet when he chooses to and stay dry would say to me maybe this is more about what he chooses to do than any underlying medical issue, and as such you might find he is dry in school.