Please talk to me about 'lifting' (putting sleeping child on potty)

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How long do you have to do this for? Does child stay awake? What time do you do it?

We're nighttime training dd and had a few successes and now a backwards step. I think because she started school and is so wiped out she;s now too deeply asleep to control it. I tried lifting her one night last week and she stayed asleep even while sitting on potty and nothing came out, then an hour later (about midnight) she wet the bed.

All lifting advice welcomed.

From what I've read on here, lifting is not recommended because it does not help the child become dry at night.

Have you had a look at the "ERIC" website?

It really isn't possible to night-time train a child. Being dry at night is only possible due to the presence of a certain hormone. If that hormone is not present, children will not be dry at night.

You can help by limiting certain squashes etc. (I'm not sure of the details, but I think they are on the ERIC website).

thanks littlefish but I am not sure I buy into this - in that most people I know who have nighttime trained their child report success after a couple of weeks so something is happening in those two weeks to train their child, plus from talking to my mum;'s generation nearly all ids were nighttime trained younger when I was a kid and it is only now there seems to be lots of 4 and 5 year olds not yet trained.

I agree with littlefish. We saw a continence nurse last week who explained that night time lifting is pointless because it doesn't teach her body to wake up when she needs a wee, it teaches her to wee in her sleep. And night time continence is down to development. It's normal for a child to still be in pajama pants at that age. They make them commercial up to the age of 14 so if you think about how many children in the UK must need some sort of help in order for those products to be commercially viable you get some idea of how common it is. That's not to say that you can't get help if it becomes a problem - speak to you school nurse for advice.

If you are going to lift them then you should wake them enough to be aware of what they are doing or otherwise you are just teaching them to wee in their sleep.

The rest is rubbish. There are always some that are later to night train. They need to produce a hormone that suppresses urine overnight plus they need to be able to wake up with the sensation of a full bladder. Until both happens they will wet the bed.

It's not really a case of buying into it, it's what the evidence from continence specialists points to.

Here's the ERIC website link:

www.eric.org.uk/Parents/info_bedwetting_wetting_parents

My gran always did it and I did it with my dd, who didn't have any continence problems, I just wanted her to be comfortable in her sleep.

I did it for both my DDs, it was very helpful with DD1 as she would drink a pint of milk before going to sleep when she was 3yo, and I didn't want to limit her liquid intake- no matter how much hormone of whatever you produce, no child can hold that much in over night. ??Anyway, she would go to bed at about 8 or 9, and the first week we lifted her at 11 and 1am (if your DD goes to bed earlier, obviously lift earlier). We would take her to the toilet whilst she was asleep, but with the lights fully on and tell her to wee- she was awake enough to obey the instruction. I think the following week we just lifted her at 11pm and I can't really remember how long it took but not too long. My SIL told me how to do it and it worked well with her DD1 as well.

Oh gosh, I've done this for 3 of my 4 dds. Always successfully, not done for long. Doing it now for my 3yo who refuses to wear nappies bc her older DCs are nappy free. No idea it was a 'thing' that wasn't recommended!

Fuck that shit, to be blunt.

Child aged 4/5/6/10/whatever wearing a night-nappy? Why on earth not? I have never heard of this and if I had, some years ago, I wouldn't have done it. If the child isn't ready, the child isn't ready.

I never did with mine, because I wanted them to wake up if they needed a wee not do it in their sleep. I think if you are going to take them to the toilet in the night wake them up first.

imip what time do you do it? And how long did you do it for with the three you have done it with - how did you know when it was time to stop?

The only time I did it with dd was when she had been dry but went through a phase of wetting. I took her to the toilet when we went up to bed but made sure she was aware of what she was doing. I certainly never got up in the middle of the night. Didnt need to do it with ds and he was dry overnight from age 3.

I used to run an enuresis clinic.

Lifting isn't something we promote. It doesn't achieve night time continence, but of course can ensure a dry bed. However it doesn't help in terms of becoming dry because you are reinforcing the "wee whilst you're asleep" message. A child needs to learn to wake to a full bladder and respond accordingly. By lifting them you are potentially delaying the acquisition of that skill.

To avoid a full bladder at night encourage toilet, teeth, toilet before bed (double voiding encourages complete emptying of the bladder) and think about leaving a potty within sight of the bed, a nightlight so they can see where to go if they do need the loo.

You don't need to massively restrict fluids, but try and ensure they have the bulk of their daily liquid intake between waking and dinner time. Many children don't drink at school then have loads when they get home, which means they pee it out after they go to bed! Milk is food as well as a drink and takes longer to "process" so will be voided later - in an older child avoid milk at bedtime.

There's also a developmental part to nighttime dryness, in that the body needs to make enough vasopressin to tell the kidneys to slow down and reduce output at night. This usually happens by the age of 3-4 but not always. Many children will still need nappies or pull-ups overnight and this is normal. Day time dryness is not necessarily linked to night time dryness, it can take many more years.

We only saw children 7+ that were still wetting as up until then it isn't considered a problem. And after that very few children needed medication, most we saw needed fluid management and a toileting routine. Some needed alarms.

Dh or I do it when we go to bed. Potty is right next to bed. We did it with dd1 when she was v distressed wearing a nappy when dd2 (19 months younger) was dry at might. Didn't do it for more than 3 months. She was 5, in reception, and v distressed that she was wearing nappies.

Did it with dd3. She had regular dry nappies, went nappy free and then had a lot of accidents. Don't think we did it for v long at all. A matter of weeks.

Currently doing it for dd4 have done it for about 3 months. She refuses to wear nappies, but to be honest she hasn't urinated much lately when 'lifted' so she may be ok to go? We've never been fussed about them being dry at night, it happens when it happens, someone mentioned it when dd1 was v upset about still wearing nappies and it worked!

Thanks Sidge that is really helpful.

DD was born with hydronephrosis of one kidney and had a pyeloplasty and jj stent as a baby (removed at 18 months). We are on appts every two years now so don't have one until next summer, and at the last appt she had full function in one kidney and 60% in the other. She was dry from about 2 and a half in the daytime.

Would any of this have an impact do you think?

The thing is, a generation or two ago parents were commonly taking kids to the toilet once or twice every night. Now we tend to see night dryness as generally being able to go overnight -or take self to the loo if necessary.

I agree that lifting is pointless and counter productive.

You have already given the reason. She has started school and is knackered. Put her back in pull ups, or line the bed for easy changes. It can't have been happening for long so try to be patient and make it less unpleasant for her in the meantime.