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Potty training

Is your child ready for potty training at nursery? Here's the place for all your toilet training questions.

arghhh! how long can this go on? (extended potty training support thread)

149 replies

babymutha · 30/07/2011 22:51

OH KAY.......
I know that DD WILL LEARN TO GO TO THE TOILET at some point before her 18th birthday. But at the moment she's 3 and a half and I am washing out up to 6 pairs of poo encrusted pants and leggings a day some days. It's been over a year of potty training and it's just NOT GOOD.
I've tried all the recommended "stuff", but now my 'inner mother' is telling me to just be PATIENT. When she's ready she'll be ready and this is just her way.

So Please... come share your months/years of unspoken angst. Let us band together in an ongoing struggle for liberation from our offsprings' collective excretions and gain solace in knowing that NOT EVERY CHILD POTTY TRAINS IN A WEEK (or a month, or a year........)

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mamamaisie · 28/10/2011 20:23

I am at my wits end tooSad I have just put DS 4.2 to bed in tears because I completely lost it with him and screamed the house down. Now I feel really bad. Potty training has been a nightmare with him from the start. He just doesn't care if he was a wee or a poo in his pants. Sometimes he waits until the last minute and then can't make it to the toilet in time. Sometimes he just doesn't even try, makes a wee or a poo in his pants and carries on playing as if nothing happened. This had been going on for about a year until I thought we had finally cracked it last summer. We were down to about 1 accident a week. Then he started school in September and things went down hill again. He is fine at school and has only had one accident there so far. At home he just wees and poos everywhere and it seems to be getting worse not better! I just can't take it any more! I have completely lost my patience and just can't do the 'don't worry, better luck next time' thing anymoreSad

Dontpanic · 29/10/2011 23:39

Just wanted to update you that there is a light at the end of the tunnel!
After the advice here, I read the pooland book to DS & he actually paid attention to the story. We kept mentioning sending Mr Poo to Pooland & it's sunk in. Mr Wee joins him occasionally on the way back to Weeland [hgrin]

We also started bribing reinforcing success again with his favourite trading cards, and barring a couple of wee-related accidents at nursery, he's been perfect for a few weeks now. It really sank in within a couple of days!

Now I just need to get him to sleep under his duvet...

FairyArmadillo · 30/10/2011 10:10

I have to find this Mr Pooland book. I gave up [embarrassed]

We were both getting stressed out. Didn't help that I was ill and also had PMT. He's already 3 and a half and I'd determined not to give up this time. But an experienced friend with an older boy and two year old twins saw how stressed out we were and suggested we have a break, calm down and try again.

alittlebitshy · 30/10/2011 13:42

Just refound this thread.
Lordy I am glad to have fellow tearing hair out folk!
As i posted near the start of the thread ds was being trained in Aug. Within 3 weeks we were all sorted. Totally. wees were done within 2, poos took a bit longer but nothing like when i trained dd and we had poos in pants for 3 further months.

Hurrah.

BUT at the start of Sept when he started pre school (only 2 mornings a week) it unravelled. Not the poos but the wees. Sometimes we have totally dry days but I am back to nagging. We had a dry fortnight recently which was amazing. But we oftne have accidents. some little trickles in the pants which i get are just him being desperate, dribbling, then stopping. BUT other wees are full on gushes - some he is dismayed as they happen - others he sits in (watching tv) for a while and a bit later on calmly announces he has done a wee.

This morning we had a wee that missed the potty (will come to the potty issue in a moment) and it was on the floor in front of it (I had just praised him for telling me he needed to have a wee - i think if he had gone straight to do it rather than telling me we might have not had the mess). Then just now in church he sat on my lap all sleepy and weeed on me. I need to go and change as I am soggy but wanted to see if there were any other folk with the same struggles as me.

He will and can wee on the toilet - will do out and about and upstairs but some some reason he is very reluctant to put away the downstairs potty -despite there being a loo down there too. I know I should just take it away but i was originally thinking i would wait until he was back on an even keel and not having accidents - perhaps i should bite the bullet and just do iit as things are not getting any better. We are about to go away for 4 nights tomorrow - (the bonus of a 2 week half term) and I think i will not take the potty and put it away before we go so that it is gone when we get back. Si that wicked??

Thanks if you have read this far.

I may start another thread with the same content just to tout for extra help as I am getting desperate and finding it hard to keep calm then feeling really mean:(

WombOnTheBroom · 31/10/2011 12:33

Hiya Fairy - I've got a pdf of Poo goes to Pooland. Happy to email it if you PM me!

Used it with DS and it seems to have made some kind of an impact. So fingers crossed...

Am also trying the marble jar idea. It seems to be working better than the chocolate bribery rewards.

soupmaker · 31/10/2011 15:51

We thought we'd cracked it with DD, but we've just had yet another week of constant wet pants whilst on holiday. Plus 3 poos in pants, the latest one today whilst on the plane home. She just doesn't go in time with wees, she seems to only go once a bit of wee has leaked out. I am sitting in tears having yelled at her and told her to get out of my sight. 11 bloody months of this is enough to make anyone demented. I didn't even want to train, she was the one that insisted at almost 3. FFS.

babymutha · 01/11/2011 10:58

Wahey for poo goes to pooland!!!

I couldn't find the book but I made up my own story - it is called Robert and the Angry Poo. Basically Robert loves eating (DD suggests all the things Robert eats for breakfast, lunch and tea) BUT he doesn't like to poo and the poo in his tummy gets bigger and bigger and BIGGER until one day (this would be day five for us!!) Robert hears an angry voice in his guts - it's his poo and it wants to get OUT (I do a terrifying angry sludgy poo voice, which has DD hooked) the poo shouts "let me out Robert!" (in said terrifying sludgy voice) and Robert goes off to hide in his bedroom and tries VERY VERY HARD to stop the poo coming out but little bits of poo keep escaping into his pants (exactly what happens to DD). Robert is VERY VERY SCARED that the poo is going to hurt him and the poo keeps PRESSING on his tummy and PRESSING on his back and PRESSING on his bottom which makes Robert very sad and angry (exactly like DD). Luckily his MUMMY (ta da!) sees what is wrong and asks Robert what the problem is. Robert won't tell her but she asks him if he is scared that the poo is going to hurt him on the way out. Robert cries and cries and says "yes" he is scared the poo is going to hurt him coz it's so big and so angry, so his mummy (ta da!) gives him a HUGE CUDDLE and goes off to make some MAGIC MEDICINE WATER (and if you know anything about Tibetan medicine, you'll know it IS Magic - although it's basically warm water in a special cup). At first Robert doesn't want to drink the magic medicine water but when he tries a little bit he finds it's alright, and then he drinks it all up and when he feels the poo trying to get out he RUSHES to the toilet (or potty) pulls down his pants (because he is a BIG boy) and let's the poo come out. TO HIS AMAZEMENT his mummy was RIGHT and it doesn't hurt at all. IT IS THE BIGGEST POO IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD but thanks to his mummy's magic medicine water it doesn't hurt. The poo looks at Robert and thanks him for letting him out (in a much more comic and less scary sludgy poo voice) he also apologises for being angry but he was missing his friends in the land of poo down the loo. Robert sends the poo down the loo to the land of the poos where the poo lives with his poo friends happily ever after. Robert gets to watch his favourite cartoon on TV (or whatever incentive works for yours) and he gives his MAGIC mummy a big cuddle. THE END.

I CANNOT BELIEVE that something so simple has had SUCH an effect on my daughter I have not washed out a pair of poo pants for over a week! She asks for the Robert story a lot and now I have even had to introduce a sequel which is "Robert and the poo that was too little to come out" because the other morning she was sitting on her potty having got herself out of bed early (UNHEARD OF!) straining to send the poo off to the land of poo as soon as poss (and have a cartoon before pre-school). She even pooed at her grandparents and in a restaurant toilet! It wasn't instant but we kept repeating and refining the story (she added lots of bits too). She has had wee accidents at a friend's house in half term (because she was having too much fun on the trampoline to go to the loo) but I DON'T CARE! She is still little and lots of little ones have accidents like that.

In theory I should know all this stuff about children and stories but seeing it in action with my own DD is truly empowering. THANK YOU EVERYONE for your inspiration and support!!! Mumsnetters - make up stories about other children to get yours to do what you want!!! It is the ancient power of motherhood that his been used since time immemorial but we've forgotten how darn powerful it is. It is also really good FUN! GrinGrinGrin

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babymutha · 01/11/2011 11:11

ps - a little bit shy - all v familiar Brew. Have been weed on by a sleepy DD before and she was not slightest bit bothered. I think that every time I've lost it with her in the last year and a half I have v definitely made things MUCH WORSE. I read a great child psychology site (which I now can't find) which said this is the ultimate form of CONTROL for a child. The child is saying consciously or otherwise "only I have control over this, you cannot make me do it your way". The psychologist advised backing off from any form of overt control of the child and especially any form of confrontation and waiting until the child was ready.

Our children may be in a minority when it comes to potty training, but they DO EXIST!!! and there isn't anything WRONG with them, they are just who they are. big hugs all round to everyone.

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babymutha · 08/11/2011 16:45

still going strong - no poo or wee accidents in the last week I am delirious.... (did I mention this started in May 2010?????)

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WombOnTheBroom · 08/11/2011 18:22

Wahey! Well done babymutha!!! Totally agree about the control thing. Maybe it shows how clever our offspring are? Grin No poo accidents from ds in the last week but he will only poo either at night or during his nap (when he wears pull ups). Can cope with that but his room does honk! I end up changing his bum when I go to bed to ensure he's not sleeping in a poo-ey nappy. I suppose I have to do it about 1 night in 3. And on the nights he doesn't do it then, he poos in the morning. Still better than washing out pants though .

babymutha · 11/11/2011 23:54

Agree womb. Having done two clear weeks of no pant washing almost anything is better than washing encrusted poo out of miniature pants (even stinky potty in the living room/kitchen).
And DD is v clever. Too clever for me. And too strong willed. Am v interested to see who she will turn out to be... and also everso slightly terrified.

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WombOnTheBroom · 13/11/2011 15:04

We had a poo that went to pooland!!! There's a sentence that not many people can have written... The things that motherhood brings, huh? DS managed a trip to the loo (at his own instigation) and did an ENORMOUS poo. I am over the moon but desperately trying not to count any chickens.

babymutha · 14/11/2011 17:27

wahey wombonthebroom! the power of the story is not to be underestimated. go mama!

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Umpadink · 18/11/2011 22:04

I have never been so relieved to read this thread, I am actually crying with joy (instead of with guilt over my explosions at DS the past week). He is 3.8, potty trained Jan of this year, within one month he was great. We have been up and down since then, but the past few weeks, he actually does not care. He wets himself every time, all over our fabric sofa, at soft plays, on the carpets, I have literally been at my wits end. The saving grace for us is that he is fine with poos (sorry, I know that must be a complete nightmare!) And 9 times out of 10 is dry at night, so has not worn a nappy since Feb. But it is sooooooooo frustrating when I know he knows how to do it! It is purely being lazy and can't be bothered, and I have done every positive and negative reinforcement you can think of, he just doesn't care. So when I am fit to explode tomorrow at the sight of another pair of wet jeans, I will just think of this thread to keep me sane! I have felt like the worst mum in the world recently and this thread has me nearly back thinking I can cope with tomorrow! Thank you!

babymutha · 18/11/2011 23:35

umpadink - have you been to the doctor to check for a uti? my friend's daughter had v similar experience and it was an infection.... or does your gut tell you something different? (presumably boys can get utis too, I am not medical as you can tell....)
and also you are far from the worst mum in the world, as we have ALL been there on the losing it front and got the t-shirt.... it's tough and infuriating.

if you can rule out something physical it sounds like the Freudian thing that many of the other mums on here are experiencing. Can but doesn't want to / can't be bothered.

BUT
My theory on this having done the amazing story thing with my dd is that consciously or, more probably, unconsciously our offspring are using this as a form of CONTROL over their bodies and situations that may have got out of hand for them. So rather than "oh dear, mummy is cross I mustn't do that again" it's more a case of "arghghgh! something is wrong, mummy is cross, I've lost my place of safety, will mummy be cross if I do the same thing again? arghgh she is, oh no, what if I do it again" - I don't know if that makes sense to anyone but I think a lot of my DDs behaviour was coming out of a reasoning system like this. It was as if on some level she was testing me, but she was also genuinely mortified if I was angry with her and it always seemed to make the weeing/pooing in inappropriate places much worse.

As the unconscious is the language of dreams, stories and fairytales the way to get into their lovely little heads is to use stories and create a place of safety for them in relation to their toilet habits and also practice the EXTREME art of zen mothering and not react at all to the puddles and/or parcels in the small underwear (arghghghghgh!!!!) .........other than to clear the blimmin stuff up BUT to instead work on creating that place of safety for them again in their unconscious.

Maybe a story of the sad wee who wanted to go down the toilet and got lost in the soft play instead or something could help.... (see the poo goes to pooland threads above) I think we have to let them know that they are indeed in control of poos and wees but steer them in the direction of 'doing the right thing' - making the poos and wees happy by putting them in the right place. My DD is so keen on poos now I have a job to stop her straining on the loo or potty at every available opportunity - and she always wants them to be happy as we flush them away to their friends in poo land! I know it sounds BIZARRE but it's powerful old stuff and the ONLY thing that's worked in 18 months.

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WombOnTheBroom · 19/11/2011 22:31

Hiya - Umpadink. I can honestly say that potty training has been my absolute parenting nightmare. I've coped fine with most of the tough stuff but bloody hell, this has pushed me right to the edge. Babymutha could be right about the UTI - might be worth checking. Big hugs to you. If you think it might help, PM me your email address I'll send you the pooland story.

Good news here mostly - DS has been sending poos to pooland and getting his marbles for his troubles. He had a minor blip today but (get this) took himself off to the loo and put his poo in the loo (with paper) so it would be happy. Slowly, slowly, slowly, we are getting there...

Umpadink · 19/11/2011 23:47

I had thought about uti a few weeks ago actually, when we were having another blip and when I read your message this morning babymutha, I was prepped to get a sample for the Dr - until he ran full pelt into the bathroom, did a wee, with totally dry pants! So I know he really can do it! I think I will try the wee wee version of the pooland story, anything is worth a shot. I also have been soul searching a little and have realised that the past few weeks he has not had a huge amount of proper attention from me, we have been getting our bathroom done, I have taken over a brownie pack, and picked up some supply teaching amongst other things that have distracted me so we have been doing errands and jobs at home more than fun activities for him. So today, took him and one year old DD out for avo to sea life centre, had really lovely time. One accident when there but I didn't make a big deal. I also think he is actually quite immature still for his age (boys!) And he just doesn't get why it matters being wet - he doesn't mind so why should I sort of thing. So my new approach is not making big deal and just trying to keep calm and keep change of clothes at all times! I hardly ever come on here, so thanks so much for the advice and support, I really was beating myself up rotten yesterday, but much more positive today, even if it does take until he is six! I say this now but hope I can still keep my calm in another few months when this is still dragging on!, womb and babymutha, glad things have got better for you guys, and thank you so much xxx

babymutha · 20/11/2011 12:25

I agree womb - I found it easier to deal with the tantrums and the spitting/biting/not sleeping til age 3 than the ONGOING poo and wee situation. I think I also did a LOT of beating myself up for my APPALLING behaviour with this essentially tiny little thing who found the world quite a confusing place. I still don't really understand why it pushed so many of my buttons - when I worked in a nursery I was forever cleaning up other children's accidents and it was just all part of the job. With my OWN child it took on a strange significance and made ME feel like a huge failure. Think I needed to start the thread because it seemed to be something other people just DIDN'T encounter or admit... all I ever got was blank smiles and "oooo... Jasmine just took herself off to the toilet at 2 and has been dry ever since".... thank you all on here for your loveliness and inspiration.

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Umpadink · 20/11/2011 18:16

Babymutha, I was a primary teacher pre kids, and I think for some reason when you work with kids, you beat yourself up so much more about your own! I know I do, not being able to understand why I can cope with a class of 25 but lose my rag with one three year old! It really is about knowing other people are going through the same thing and also have days that they regret reacting in certain ways. Thank you for starting the thread!

fivegomadindorset · 20/11/2011 18:18

DD rising six here, just about got weeing, problem with pooing and under paediatrician for it, good luck everyone.

babymutha · 23/11/2011 21:24

umpadink - a big Smile of recognition. I was world expert until I actually became a mother..... [sighs at self] then had to eat a lot of my own ideas! Looking after hoardes of other peoples' gorgeous offspring is SO MUCH EASIER than dealing with my own 24/7 (minus 15 blissful hours of free childcare).
fivegomad - let us know how it goes and if your paediatrician has any useful wisdom to add here. thanks!!

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Lozza70 · 27/11/2011 15:47

I'm so glad I found his thread. DS who is 3.2 has been toilet trained for 5 weeks and it seemed really easy, straight to pants only 1 or 2 wee accidents and dry at night since trained but the last week has been a nightmare of poo encrusted pants. No poos for days on end and then after sometimes 10 trips to the toilet standing in the middle of the living room and pooing in his pants. Sadly I have been really angry with him and then spent days feeling really bad Sad. We will be trying poo goes to pooland once I find it on the web. Fingers crossed!

Alibabaandthe80nappies · 27/11/2011 15:55

OMG we are not alone

We started potty training DS1 just before his third birthday in July, and to begin with he was really good with wees. Poos took longer, and we had about 6 weeks of him pooing on the carpets, in his pants etc. But all seemed well then, and when he started back at preschool in September we thought we had it cracked.

He has regressed massively with weeing though, and while some days he can be fine, other days he wets himself 3 times at preschool and then in the last week or so he has wet himself all over the sofa, the floor etc here.
He is unwell at the moment with a cold which isn't helping because he isn't sleeping well and is very tired, so we've put him back in pullups from time to time just to take the pressure off us all. Poos he is mostly ok, we get the odd one in the pants though.

I do lose it with him though, which I hate and it makes me so upset. :(

babymutha · 29/11/2011 23:58

lozza and alibaba - welcome. have a read through of the posts and see if anything might work for you. Let us know how you get on. try deep breathing and REPEAT the mantra "it's not my FAULT, it's not my FAULT", followed by some platitude about worse things happening at sea etc. etc. have a stiff brandy nice cuppa and remember YOU ARE WONDERFUL, you must forgive yourself for any behaviour less than perfect, it is all part of the learning curve of being the mother to your child, and let yourself know that YOU CAN and WILL get through this firing on all your mother cylinders with humour and a lot of dettol. Grin this too will pass.... this too will pass....

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WombOnTheBroom · 30/11/2011 16:12

Hello all! My early optimism was ill-founded. Poo-pants for the last couple of days. AAAARGGHHHH... And a couple of wee accidents too - had to strip the sofa the other night.

Lozza if you need a copy of Poo goes to Pooland PM me your email address...

It's been four months for us now. I reckon he's poo-ed in the loo about 8 times. So tired of it all. I have a four-month old DD and often think she'll be clean and dry before DS. I am TOTALLY going to try earlier with her - I don't think waiting for DS has actually been very helpful as I think he now overthinks something that he would have been more accepting of when he was younger (say 2-ish).

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