November 09 babies are growing up quick, and mummy's getting used to getting covered in sick!

[PreggoK8]

Hope this has worked...

and thanks for saying you think i am a good mum. Sometimes you need to hear it don't you? I know deepdown a garden is not so important, but, i just wanted things to be better for her than they were for me. And they are signficantly so, and I should remind myself of that. DD knows she is loved, we tell each other at least 20 times a day! And Reuben will know it too as he grows up, and we have so much to offer even in a flat, we have the sea and the countryside, and a kayak, and good friends. We are lucky.

Quite right pav. Very lucky. Your posts tonight have made me stop and just watch Ethan sleep for a while. Reminded me of the poem 'What is this life, if full of care we have no time to stand and stare'. I've had a good weekend but needed to sit back for a minute and count my blessings.

My earlier post was a bit of a ramble, what I meant to say was take strength from your family and know that everything will be ok. If the anxiety continues though, mention it to your gp.

Morning ladies

Pav how are you doing this morning? So much of your posts have rung true for me. You are feeling the exact way I was feeling after DS1, whilst he was the light of my life and filled me with joy, the rest of my life wasn't what I wanted it to be and it brought me down. The gp told me it was depression, albeit very light, but not pnd as I loved my baby
Anyway, I had acupuncture for a while which helped and then went on ad's for a few months which turned it all around. The gp explained it as stalled nuerotransmitters in my head from the hormonal effects of pg, and the ad's just kick start your system a bit like a reboot.
Am not saying that you are in this situation, just sharing mine in case it helps
I would echo DWB - you sound like a fantastic Mum and I'm really looking forward to our meet as I find you inspiring. You are living the life that many dream of, raising your dc's in the country and embracing all that nature has to offer. Remember material things are what adults aspire to, not children. Whilst they might watch the adverts asking for all those things to be put on their list (or is that just my DS1?!) they forget them the moment the tv is off and can delight in watching a bee collect pollen from a flower. Things that as adults we are too busy to notice.

I too am enjoying the echoes of older dc's in Ioan - when he grins he looks just like DD did 15 years ago and it's wonderful! Has brought back so many lovely memories that were buried.

Better night last night, he fed at 2am and then went back down. Woke at 3 but accepted the dummy then woke at 4. Had a few mouthfuls and then I put him back to bed with an extra blanket and patted/shushed/bounced hammock and he went through until 6am. Am hoping that we've started to turn a corner now and that a little more sleep is on the horizon. The snuffles seem to be easing too [hopeful emoticon]

London meet-up Brighton trains run to Victoria or L,Bridge but SirBoob and I can always tube it to somewhere central. Would that be easiest for everyone if it was central? What about a centrally based park? Would give us the option of sitting outside if it's nice or am sure there would be a cafe nearby if it was miserable weather?

Pav I often get anxious/ panicky feelings. I think a lot of us on this thread do. They are horrible but it certainly makes me feel better knowing I'm not alone. I do think, for me, that that combination of exhaustion yet not much to occupy your mind is a killer - but just knowing this now means I can more easily identify when I'm going to start panicking and sometimes that's enough to avoid it altogether.

I also have the odd blast of guilt about not being able to give my children a garden to play in, their own bedrooms etc. Don't get me wrong, this would be lovely, but deep down I also know that these things are not the biggest priorities to me. It's just a matter of expectations isn't it? If you go to Italy or Spain, most families in towns live in flats and make use of the communal outdoor spaces. This is a good life to them and our children have exactly the same needs as theirs. We have a lovely park at the end of our street so I try and take them there every day the weather is good (please let spring come soon). We're also not too far from the coast - I really should go there more often.

Hey scarlotti, it's our morning post-cross! Glad you had a bit of a better night. Thanks for the info re DD and goats milk. My mum gave me this when I was little too. Where do you buy it from, I've never seen it.

morning Laugs you can buy goats milk from supermarkets now, think tesco do it. You can also get cheese and yoghurt too. Probably only plain yoghurt but you could soon liven that up with some stewed apple or something. My step mum has it and it tastes fine.

Am off to visit a friend of mine today ... and her 2 week old son!! Am so excited, he's smaller now than when Ioan was born so Ioan will feel even more of a lump after!

yes i have that filling in my stomach u get before doing a presentation! but i think its called exhaustion..was fine first few months but really feeling it now, if its not DD1 its DD2 waking up, DD2 has gone back to waking 12:30, 3:30 and 6, feel like i am regressing!!

i also feel like crap, anyone else just feel awful but cant really put a name on it..again think its tiredness...

moan moan moan

but the sky is blue, might get to have a walk with buggy outside at some stage

and DD2 has been fab at potty training, alot to be said to leaving it till there are 3 as they just get it straight away! though with amounts of times she wees a day (12...) i am running out of chocolate...

Ooo no, the not-pooping stage was very short-lived - I now share the millions of poops a day...the powders helped when he was bunged up (had used them for teething as he was showing every sign) and they seemed to help this as well - but since then it's poop city, and he ain't tidy about it either! Hope you're ok pav, depression of any kind of severity is difficult.

I don't know if this is relevant, or how true it is, but I've heard that the hormones produced when bfing can sometimes send people up and down...could this be a factor? I know it's probably a silly idea, but just a guess. I know that even though I don't get AF I certainly get all the fun moody bits at "that time"

Morning everyone. Thanks for being so supportive. I think claire you are very right, and i mulled it over last night, a lot. I spoke to DH a bit this morning. I think this fear is a 'running out of time' fear, i wanted to be so much more than the person i am now, in terms of being successful as 'me'. I feel like i should have been something more than i am, a lawyer, a police officer or similar and now i see these things moving away from my grasp. I think that is it you know. It is the only thing that when i think of it the panic does not go away. If i think of my children, the panic subsides, if i think of the arsehole ex-builder, the panic subsides. But DH reminded me this morning as you already have, that I am a success, i have a good relationship (with all its faults, it is a good one), i have 2 beautiful children, and I have a home, and a bloody good job (apparantly ). So, i shall concentrate on that much more, and try not to do everything at once. I will get back to work, and get DH in a job and then sort out my career future. I guess that is what i want my children to see, that they can do anything they want with no boundaries. Except there are always boundaries.

Oh dear, i really do have too much time on my hands

scarlotti i could just kiss you right now! and i blushed when you said i was an inspiration. you my dear are in inspiration, and you remind me a bit of me but stronger! I think we are going to get on great when we meet!

Ladies, you never know, i might even pop down for a London meetup . I love a bit of travel, love the trains, so does DD and she has not been to london. Plymouth used to do a 3hour train journey at 9am, but bloody stopped it, that would have been perfect, straight into Paddington, walk to a big park, have lunch, train home!

lucieerin not a silly idea at all, i do think it has something to do with it, it must do as i remember feeling like this with DD. However, i had real things going on then, my mum had terminal cancer, and i was planning my wedding (well, not planning as was the reality!) so i attributed it much more to those things, when in reality it may well have been just what my hormones make me feel like.

I have just had some major inspiration. Its a pie in the sky right now. BUT. Instead of being a lawyer, i am going to become a Doctor . Not a medical one, that would be very silly!, but my local university has postgraduate research opportunities working towards a PhD, and is entirely relevant to work i am doing now. DH said to me 'oh pavlov just do it, you would be able to do it, you would be so much happier if you were studying, and this is much more you than being a lawyer, you know this shit' (his words!) so i explored it some more and the Msc course, its what i do now!

So now i have excited butterflies and I want this. I really do. I cannot beleive i did not ever see this before. And that worries me, as it means i have gone from a low to a high within hours and that can be a sign of PND can't it? Oh i can't win. But also panicky about it as there will be others, and i feel like you know when you are queuing for a ticket for a concert you want to see, or to get the best seat at some event and you really want to just push past everyone to get it and have to hold back from slapping everyone out of the way? I feel like that!

Paula tired, and we should leave soon so very short:
Pav, I remember you having had similar feelings at the beginning of this pregnancy already. So 2 things:
Remember how wrong you were and how wonderful Reuben is?
But I also think it is good to share this with your GP. Maybe you could see a therapist to speak about it?
Sorry for being so short once again

London-meet-up, I'm in the west, but still fairly central, actually at central line so I guess, it would be fairly easy for me to go a little bit more east too. I just want to avoid rush hours but I guess everybody else too.

Pav That's fab, sounds like you have found something to work towards and focus your energies on.

Bit of a short one as typing with one hand but hope everyone has a good day! We have sunshine here.

Laugs good luck with the dairy-free. Yes, it definitely makes some more mucusy hence why singers don't have it before performances, and DD1's snuffles cleared up immediately I went DF. As for recipes, you'll get loads of help from the Allergies board if you need it. My current family standards are spag bol (without cheese), sausage casserole (check sausage labels), chicken casseroles, pasta, veg & bacon with pesto, homemade fajitas & guacamole (without soured cream and cheese - a bit of a sacrifice there), fish fingers & homemade chips, Klaw's chorizo risotto (see MN recipes & check chorizo label). Basically tomatoey things are good, as are bog standard meat & 2 veg type things. PURE is an acceptable margarine and works well in baking too, and I found oat milk (Oatly) to be the best tasting alternative if you still need milk for cereal, etc. Check labels for skimmed milk powder, whey, etc. It's hidden in everything!

Welcome back lucyerin & easyeggs!! I'm in awe of you managing 5, easy. Are you forever doing washing?!

pav you described so eloquently how I often felt after having DD1, and after what others have said I do wonder if I had a touch of PND. That sense of panic remained with me throughout my 1st year back at work too, and I definitely feel that it was sleep-deprivation-related, especially since I don't have it now and am so much better-slept with Isla. Part of my panic was probably the fear of not coping properly. My short term memory was utter mince, and I'd always feel like I'd forgotten something really fundamentally basic, or was constantly running things through my head like a mantra so that I'd remember to to them or even remind myself that they existed! It was exhausting. I did often forget rally important things at work and had to suffer the consequences. I'd forget entire conversations too. Very stressful. But it sounds like you've found something to address your inner hunger for fulfilment which is such good news, and very important for you. You've been unsettled of late and this focus could be just what you need. My focus now is trying to keep DH afloat through an extra crap period of work. He has been struggling mentally with things (IMO) for over a year now and finds it so hard to unwind and enjoy family life when he gets home. His brain is full to the brim with work stuff and he can't deal with lists of home jobs and DD1's incessant babble and demands. My goal is to create a calm, enjoyable home environment. So domestically 1950's

Isla seems to have settled again overnight thank goodness, but is needing fed 1.5-2 hourly during the day to manage it. Fair cop, I say. She is turning into a giggly baby, which is utterly lovely since DD1 was not. She just had super-alert eyes that bored through you, saying 'what is this? are you qualified?' and drank in information. Isla is a bit more chilled and sees the funny side of things. Lovely.

Pav sounds positive, good to have soemthing to focus on. I am swinging wildly moodwise and the GP said to me to keep a 'mood diary'. This is a good idea, i can already see that there is not any randomness, if I have been out and exercising and eating regularly I am much, much calmer and happier than if I have been stuck in. Why not try keeping track for a few days?
Like Scarlotti I am a fan of acupuncture which always took off my jaggedy edges in the past.

wook oh thats a good idea - the diary, i will try that thank you. Would love acupuncture, alas can't afford it right now . As many of you all are probably feeling, that maternity pinch!

Interesting about dairy and mucus. Reuben is a very mucousy baby, he snuffles always and sounds like he has a terrible cold, except he does not! He loves a good cough though and once he has brought something up he has a good ol grin! But he rattles a little. I don't eat red meat but eat a ton of bread and butter, and cheese, and milk in porridge etc. I might try to reduce my milk intake for a few days, see if it makes a difference...would i need to cut it out completely do you think? Or just reduce it to the bare minimum to see an effect? I am a coffee addict you see and cannot bear the thought of no milk in coffee! Where i quite like soya yogurts etc anyway so that would not be difficult t cut out.

Will catch up later, but as promised (sorry it took so long!)

Week 1

Mon, Wed and Fri

Walk 2min
Run 1 min
X6 (=18min)

Sun
30 min brisk walk

Week 2

Mon, Wed and Fri

Walk 2
Run 2
X 5(=20 min)

Sun 35min brisk walk

Week 3

Mon, Wed and Fri
Walk 1
Run 3
X 5 (=20 min)

Sunday 45 min brisk walk

Week 4

Mon, Wed and Fri
Walk 1
Run 5
X 4 (=24 min)

Sun
1,5 mile timed run. Choose a pace slightly harder than usual but not all-out.

Week 5

Mon, Wed and Fri
Walk 1
Run 6
x 4 (=28min)

Sun
60 min brisk walk (incl. 8 x 3 min jogs)

Week 6

Mon, Wed and Fri
Walk 1
Run 8
X 3 (=27 min)

Sun
Walk 8 mins, jog 10 mins then rest 2 mins. Repeat. (40 min total)

Week 7

Mon and Wed
Walk 1
Run 9
X 3

Fri
Walk 2
Run 12
Rest 1
Repeat
(=30 min)

Sun

Run 20 min

Aim to take 8 weeks to complete the programme, you may find that you want to repeat a week before moving up. (For me, it was week 5, I had to repeat it before I felt ready for week 6). Remember, you shouldn't feel like you're killing yourself or you'll dread going for a run. Slow down if you need to, the most important thing is that you keep running (at whatever pace is comfortable) for the specified time. If you can't talk, you're going too fast.

Breathing is key. I found that I really had to concentrate to get it right (so no time for talking...) for me, I breath in through the nose and out through the mouth, in for 3 or 4 steps, out for 3 or 4 steps. (This also takes your mind off the distance!)

My warm up is the 3 minute walk to get to the track, but I always stretch after a run. They say it's important to cool down by walking for a bit, but I hardly ever bother to do anything other than collapse in a panting heap.

pav I think cutting down should be enough. Cutting out entirely is probably only necessary for cow's milk protein intolerance/allergy symptoms like colic, reflux and nasty nappies.

brood do you think I could do this with a pram?!

Pav you describe almost exactly how I have been feeling (as you know I was diagnosed with mild PND a while ago after Christmas and have been questioning it ever since - I am mostly pretty happy and certainly not 'depressed'). I put a lot of what has happened to me down to the fact I had a tremendously busy year work wise before DS3 was born and now? Errrr - washing, ironing, walking to school and back, looking after children, not enough sleep, anxiety on and off. Hmmm. The term 'PND' covers all the different symptoms new mothers can have and there are so many different degrees of it.

PS Toby has that chesty crunchy thing too. We're taking him to a cranial osteopath to see if that helps with that and his eczema, colic and sleep problems.

hobnob Reuben has mucusy nappies come to think of it, but it may well be that he has had another cold. I shall reduce my intake, and continue with milk in my coffee then, give it a few days see if it makes a difference... .

BBL how are you feeling now? Are you finding the herbal drinks and natural ways of dealing with helping?

Laugs WOWWOWOWOWOW!!! I am so happy for her, that is fantastic news How are they doing? I know how easy it can be to be worried about every little thing now....Has made my day though.

hobnob yes washing arghhhh, if I could afford it I'd happily pay somebody to come and do just my washing, it drives me mad lol. I think I might just start insisting that when we are all indoors clothes are banned

Pav So sorry to hear you're having such a tough time. Others have given some fab advice. Maybe this course it just what you need to start feeling "you" again?

Sorry haven't got time to do proper post as have to run and get ds's.

But re London meet, if I'm not imposing, when and where are you doing it and if possible may I come along?

Afternoon.

I've been looking back and it looks like the list of those with LOs now sleeping -worse_ than before includes TOK, DWB, Easyeggs (hello again, btw!), SirBoobALot, Scarlotti, Weston and Me. Sorry if I have missed someone out. You know it makes me feel better to know I'm not suffering alone - not less tired, but better!

I suspect I can speak for all when I say - Hobnob, you say Isla has got through this phase, please send us some of your magic beans for our LOs! Lord, I'm pooped. And so is the Jimster, he's been happily catching up on his z's this afternoon. But only on my lap so that I can't get owt done or sleep myself. I sense another night of going to bed shortly after him at 7pm and only waking up for the last feed at 10.30. And not planning on more than an hour or two total kip thereafter. Blergh... That week where he slept for between 5hrs and 6hrs in a block and usually went down for another hour after a feed seems a LONG way in the past already. My brain is so mushed I can't even remember how old James is in weeks anymore, if anyone asks he's 3.5 months ish.

Re London meetup. Sounds like we're coming from all different directions, so what we need is a nice central meet point, potentially with outdoor option, close to a tube station with pushchair access. Not that I have any suggestions mind, just hoping inspiration will strike someone else...

lemontop thanks for that link. having music in my ipod that helps me to know when to run and when to walk will be a great help when I get back to running. Genius!

butterpie how was your night out on Saturday? Hope you had a great time. I took a couple of hours on Sunday and just went for to see a film while DH minded LO. Bliss to walk to town without heaving a pram up and down the pavements.

Right, I better wake up this little grumpy baby or there'll be no sleep tonight at all.

I have emailed the person at the uni about the course and research posts that might be available with it...and now i keep refreshing my mail in case he has replied. Er, like he is just sat there reading emails!

Reuben went from 7:30am to 12pm sleeping and no food and has made up for it with feeding ever since! I am not even dressed today, hardly been out of bed, but am going to cook a chilli for tea, DD will have boiled egg and soldiers as she is in nursery today til later, and then shower, get dressed and get her as if i have always been up and about and looking fresh faced!

(DD woke this morning in a rage, not surprisingly as she did not sleep til 11pm last night DH went to see her and she fumed at him 'i have not slept ALL NIGHT' and then came to see me and said 'mama, i did not sleep well at all ' so cute, least we did not have to deal with it!)

Pav I do feel that the natural things are helping. I took a homeopathic remedy to help with the sleep, used hypnotheraphy to help with anxiety and sleep, and although not perfect, they both have helped hugely. I just didn't like taking the anti-depressants and they made my insomnia worse - I was wide awake all night so stopped taking them. I'd say that now the insomnia is 80% better. I still have the odd night when my anxiety stops me sleeping (like last night but I was worried about a lot of things) but generally I feel almost normal. I also attend a Transition Into Motherhood group which I find fantastic. It is all about using CBT skills to help with coping with stress and anxiety as well as being a forum for just talking about issues and men and babies and the like.

I'm feeling quite down at the moment because of DS1's chicken pox and DS3's eczema and his crap sleep. He is very cranky in the daytime too and that troubles me. But I'm sure that is just normal motherhood stuff.

I am hoping that when I return to the world of work at the beginning of May things will improve. I did feel like this after DS1 was born and got over that without even acknowledging that anything was amiss. I felt a bit like this after DS2 was born, but not so bad. I guess I am just prone to some form of post-natal anxiety. I don't know really. I wouldn't call this depression anyway.