DEC 08 - Barely into toddlerhood and already at our tit's end

[MomOrMum]

Tit's end...had to be done.

Hope this works!

So sorry Daisy . Love to you all.

sorry my spelling is horrific!!

Daisy So sorry to hear about your MIL. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to see your MIL after death. I chose not to see my nephew or my SIL for the same reason - I dont regret it. I was with my mum when she died and it wasnt particularly nice (although I was glad I was there), and left very soon afterwards. It is really up to you. I hope she didnt suffer.

Your DH might be in shock now as I was after my mums death. I seemed very calm to everyone else but inside was struggling to fight down rising panic and found it difficult to sleep or eat for the first week. That first week was very difficult but things definitly improved after the funeral. Dont feel like you have to be strong for your DH and your FIL though, you are greiving too, its not good to bottle it up (speaks the voice of experience!)

Thank you ladies, it means a lot knowing you are all there for me to lean on

NJAN, thanks for that. I will keep my eye on Dh to make sure he isn't 'putting on a front'. I am just dreading telling DD that Grandma has gone to heaven. i just don't know what her reaction might be. has anyone any experience or any idea how to play it? I'm thinking keep it simple and just answer any questions as she asks them. She's 3.6 btw.

Daisy so sorry about your MIL, as you say her suffering is over now. Will say some prayers for you all tonight. As others have said, you don't have to see her if you don't want to, the memories of her alive are what really matter. Re telling dd, maybe someone on the bereavement threads will be able to help? Being honest seems to be the best policy, rather than saying "she's gone away" as at dd's age she might think that means she's coming back again. Sending lots of hugs to you and your DH, the basket is here whenever you need it.

On other subjects - we have a stairgate at the top of the stairs only, not the bottom. Layout of the house is such that in the morning that means dd can potter about between our bedroom and hers without falling down, and during the day I can just shut the living room door and know she can't get in too much danger.

BFing - no idea when we'll stop. At the moment we have morning and night and then a little one before naps on home days. It gives me an extra 20 mins in bed which is a bonus

spot poor T, sounds like his tum is all confused. Lots of good ideas here, dried fruit seems to be a wonder worker in all sorts of situations! Can you give him a tummy massage, that used to work with dd when she was really windy - we'd do the grand old duke of york and squish her knees into her tum.

beans v impressed with your dinner party, I couldn't cater for that many people when not upduffed and with no kiddies under my feet so you are truly wonderwoman!

Daisy I am so sorry about your MIL. I'm glad she is now at peace and no longer in pain. I wouldn't have gone to see her either. We didn't see DH's nan when she died because he wanted to remember her how she was.

Thinking of you. x

daisy I'm so sorry . We'll all be here whenever you want to talk. Unfortunately lots of people have experience of death. Very sad indeed.

Re telling your DD. My friend's dad died recently and she told her son who was then 2.5 that Grandad had gone to heaven and wasn't coming back. He cried, as you'd expect, but then very quickly seemed to accept the idea and would tell everyone that Grandad now lived in heaven. Your DD is a bit older so might ask more questions I don't know.

It isn't strange not to want to see your MIL after she died at all. My mum told me not to go and see my brother as she wished she hadn't seen my dad after he died. It is nicer to remember someone the way they were.

veggie It must be difficult not having anyone else around. It is a shame for DS1 having the language barrier but he is such a bright little boy, he'll pick it up in no time and have his pick of friends.

spot That sounds awful. Hope the dr came up with a solution.

Can I ask veggie or anyone else really, DD has been vomiting roughly every other day since Saturday now. I took her to the docs on Wednesday and she thought it was just a virus. Should it not have cleared by now? It is a good job she was so chubby robust to begin with as she has lost weight this week.

Daisy I agree with JJ, check the bereavement threads for ideas of what to actually say but honesty is the best policy. Allow them to ask lots of questions and to cry, with you. When my dad died I was a bit older but when he was diagnosed as terminal I was not too much older than your DD. My parents took each of us aside and very honestly told us that dad was very sick and was going to die which meant he would have to go away to heaven forever (or something along those lines). I don't remember much of the conversation but I do remember understanding and crying a lot. But it was a good thing because we all knew what was going on and could understand when mum& dad were upset. My mum did try to hold back and not be too upset in front of us but I think it is good to let them know you are sad too.

Now onto another sad subject...Canberra. Aubi in Australia there is a lot of rivalry, Sydney thinks it better than Melbourne, Queensland thinks it's the best state, victoria thinks they have more culture than Queensland. But everyone agrees that Canberra is boring, boring, boring. However having said that, I do have a couple of friends who were brought up there and they said for kids it was great. A three year secondment would be good esp while your kids are young. Australia's parliament house is a really cool building too, I can't post a link to it but it's really nice inside and a really amazing structure outside.

Hooray on the downs result Rubs, wow I've never seen those sort of odds.

Oh sorry Jolly I cross posted. How are her nappies? Are they still fairly wet. This is a long time to be still vomiting, the biggest threat to her is dehydration if she is not obviously dehydrated that's great but next problem is what is causing it, if it's not an infection (virus) it could be an alllergy. Is she eating or drinking at all? Is there anything new she is having? If it's not any better than it was on Wednesday I would say take her back to the GP to get her to look at her hydration level , I know it's only been 2 days since you saw the GP last but it's the weekend so if not today you have to wait til Friday. Don't worry about her weight as soon as she is better she'll plump back up again.

Oh that reminds me I haven't got DS2's lunch yet.

Daisy Sorry to hear about your MIL, I'm thinking of you and the family. Not the same I know, but when DS was 3 our kitten was run over so I had to heave the 'Heaven' conversation with him then. I just explained that God wanted Kitty to be with him now and that he had gone to a lovely place and we would all be together again one day. He asked loads of questions and I just answered them the best way I could. I also think it's important that they realise that it is ok to be sad. HTH a bit x

I've just requested to join Dec 08 babies on FB - is that right? If so, please can I come in?

Daisy: would a picture book help? I think there are a few aimed at young children, cinluding a Mog one.

I love the Sad book by Michael Rosen which I will bring out for the DSs but prob when they are a little older. It is a beautiful book but she may find it upsetting. Will try and do a link. More about grief than bereavement though.

Mog book:

www.amazon.co.uk/Goodbye-Mog-Judith-Kerr/dp/0007149697/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265378499&sr= 8-2

Sad book:

www.amazon.co.uk/Michael-Rosens-Sad-Book-Rosen/dp/1406313165/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12653785 57&sr=1-1

Beans the group is called December 2008 Mums.

Another one I've heard recommended but not read:

www.amazon.co.uk/Badgers-Parting-Gifts-Susan-Varley/dp/0006643175/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

and this is one highly recommened by a teacher friend for general anxiety and worries (Trace may be an idea for Lu?)

www.amazon.co.uk/Huge-Bag-Worries-Virginia-Ironside/dp/0340903171/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=126 5378655&sr=1-1

Daisy, so sorry. And please don't hold back from posting as much as you need - I think we'd all like to help in any way we can. Like everyone has said, being honest with DD sounds right. I remember being told when my grandma died, around that age. I think what impressed me most was seeing my mother upset rather than what she said, but not in a bad way. I think children take more in their stride than you'd think.

oh gosh goodnight Mog is such a lovely book even though it made me cry buckets as someone who grew up with Mog. It would be really nice as a comforting way to talk to dd - in the story Mog (or in this case granny) is still around looking out for the family, and helping them to get over being sad about losing her. And she stays around until she knows the family are doing ok, but she also knows they'll never forget her.

[sob] dear lord I cried in the doorway of Waterstones after reading it. And for a couple of years afterwards all DH had to do was say "Mog" and I'd well up. It became an automatic response, I could be laughing, he'd say Mog and the tears would come. He even threatened to say it at the altar All of which I guess just goes to show what a brilliantly well written book it is.

My lovely Daisy, I am so very sorry to hear your sad news. It must be a relief to know she is no longer in pain and her suffering is over, but at the same time so very sad for you, DH and your family. I will hold you all in my thoughts at this very sad time.

Telling DD - agree with Jump that honesty without euphemisms best. THere is a great book in the miffy series called "Dear Grandma Bunny" which explains in very gentle terms what happens with death, funerals etc. It's so sad but very moving and helpful for small people. I have just lent my copy to a friend but can pop into the bookshop and get one for you if you think it would help. I'm too much of a gimmer to work FB (please can someone help!) but if you text me your address I'll pop it in the post tomorrow if the bookshop has it. Lots of love to you. I'll go to the shop now on the way to school.

Jolly when DD had this vomiting thing it lasted for a week - she vomited a lot on days1-3 and then just a couple of times a day until she finally stopped. It is a particularly nasty virus this one. Veggie is absolutely right (of course ) it is dehydration you have to be careful of. Advice I've had on this in past couple of days...

• if you're still getting wet nappies don't worry too much
• don't give loads of water - better to give something that they'll get more nutritional benefit from and won't flush through - so juice is excellent. Milk if it's not causing her any problems.
• fluids little and often - if vomiting is really extreme then really little (5ml) and every 5 minutes
• and if it gets that bad then diaralyte (sp?)has all minerals and salts they need if it's been a few days. You can buy it over the counter to make up

Hope she feels better soon. DD has only just got her appetite back and she was last sick on Monday night.

Spot I hope T is feeling better - poor chap.

Err we have stairgates at top and bottom of stairs, but I'm a bit absent minded and DS was a bit of nightmare for trying to throw himself down the stairs when he was DD's age. I know plenty of people who don't have them though - depends on child to a certain extent.

I should point out that although I sound like a complete ponce for turning my nose up at gossipy mags I do love Hello. I just don't like nasty stories - mainly because a very good friend of mine was in the middle of one of them once and it's really really ghastly when you see it close up.

Daisy I would agree with what everyone else has said about explaining to your DD and showing her that it's ok to be sad. Children can process extraordinary things - is it worth asking someone like here how to do it? I know friends who've found them really useful. Do take care of yourself.

Huge cross post - had to make lunch in the middle. I cried in Waterstones at Mog too. Oh dear. My mob is 07958701168 if you'd like me to get Miffy for you XXXX

I also cam across this post ages ago (think it was linked somewhere) and mentally slotted it away for later:

--
By Twiglett Fri 21-Jul-06 20:48:17
I put a hand in a glove (well in a sock cos I couldn't find a glove)

I said to DS .. "this is you .. the glove is your body" (wiggling fingers all around), "but the hand is the bit that is really you and some people call that your soul or your spirit" (keep on wiggling)

"when you die your spirit goes on" (gently take hand out of glove and make it keep wiggling and swooping around .. tickling him works too as you gently lay the glove down on the ground)

keeping his attention on the hand swooping I said "when you die you don't need your body any more so your spirit leaves it behind" .. spirit hand keeps swooping and talk descends into tickling

--

Effie - that sounds like a very lovely way to explain.

veggie - not sure if we were FB friends, I can be such a dunce about it!

Oh, and Aubi - I can confess that I don't think I ever made it north of about Milton Keynes till I was about 20, but have since made up for it as DH is from Manchester and has been educating me in all things "North" ever since.

Also x-posted sorry. And also cried at Mog...I think Judith Kerr is absolutely brilliant. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit is an amazing children's book. She has a real gift.

Syb, thanks for the offer of the Miffy book. Your so lovely. I was going to say yes but DH thinks that tomorrow we should maybe go out for the day and pop into the bookshop while we are out and get it for her. Lots of other great suggestions too if that one isn't in so thank you everyone.

FWIW we told her and she said 'Oh I don't want Grandma to be dead, can I watch Finding Nemo now?'. It made DH laugh which was good to see.

Post ended too soon...obviously she hasn't processed that information yet, so i do think a book would be great. We had one about me being pg with DS and I really think it helped her understand what was happening.