NOV 09 - once the lights are out and the last baby has arrived safe and fine, see you here on cloud nine!

[Broodzilla]

I've just realized we're now under the "being a parent" header. I've got stage freight!

Fruit and Scarlotti, thanks for the advice. Good idea to try before I buy... unless I find one of the good ones on sale and need to hurry.
Scarlotti, I am kind of trying to get a routine. Well, the healthvisitor yesterday told me that I should try to get her used to longer breaks during the day to stop those long snacking periods (Paula's weight gain in not only impressive but also ... slightly embarrassing ). Yesterday it didn't work too well but then, they need the cluster feeding before the long break I guess.
We keep her upstairs (our house is upsidedown) until she falls asleep between 8 and 9 and put her then in her cot. (I get her dressed for the night much earlier). This night, she woke me up at 1.30 but just because of her dirty nappy and she fell asleep again without a feed. Then at 4 it was feeding time. I interrupted her after a while to let her burp and hoping she would then go on the second side but she fell asleep immediately. So that side got really big and hard and even at 6, when she was half awake and we changed her nappy hoping she would wake up and be hungry, she took only a few sips. Finally she had her real feed only at 7.30
I find it really difficult to get her onto the second side. I think at night it would be really important (for me) but I do not want to interrupt her too early as I want her to get hind milk too.
I am actually wondering which time of the day would be good to let my husband give her a bottle. He comes home late and leaves rather early. So it would be either end of day or at night. Both cases would not help watermelonwise (ok, in my case orangewise... I have actually problems too to find a bra as I seem to have 38B and nursing bras very often only start with C)
And I also leak a lot and have constantly wet pads. I am a bit worried that this damp environment makes it more likely to get thrush or something (I try to stay topless for a certain time - I guess much to the amusement of neighbours and walkers in the street, as we have too many windows)

Ursi I use a dummy which helps with the potential snacking/comfort latches. Sounds like Paula is very similar to Ioan - I do the bedtime feed around 9:30 and halfway through change him for bed so we finish around 10:30/45. He then goes in his bed and last night woke at 3am then again at 7:30am. I tend to only do one side for most feeds, but then with an H cup I tend to store a lot of milk so there's enough there for a full feed.
I think if she's happy with the one side at night, and getting the hind milk, I'd go with that. Your brests will soon readjust the amount they make.
We go for DH doing the 10pm feed from a bottle. Means that I can go to bed earlier if I want, and by the sounds of your DH's routine would probably fit in quite well.
I might start getting him ready for bed earlier then and maybe even putting him to bed early evening. My free book suggests bedtime from 7 until 7 ... makes sense but it's so much easier to have him fall asleep in his chair in the lounge in the evening! Not conducive to a settled baby in the long term though I'm sure!

I can't believe the amount of sleep you lot are getting, incidentally. Yesterday night was a really good night for us because Arthur went from 10.30 pm until 2 am, which is probably the longest break yet between feeds since he was a week old or so.

Toby has just got to that stage now where he doesn't automatically settle for daytime naps straight away. I find this really hard work: settling him, leaving him, going back, settling, leaving, settling, etc until he goes off.

The DSs went to bed about 9pm until they were about 3 months old and then we gradually brought bedtime forward bit by bit and now they both trot off to bed at 8pm every night. Toby goes down about 9pm now, which is good because after the DSs are in bed we have an hour to bath and feed him before bed. But he is majorly cranky in the evening already. I had this problem with both the DSs. I used to carry DS1 around all evening for 3 months and DS2 used to go for a walk with daddy every evening while I dealt with DS1. But it's too cold and dark for evening walks now!

Hi all, also jealous of all the sleep. Annabelle seems to sleep during the day and wont settle at night.

Had a good cry yesterday when out shopping in the middle of HMV, day started off really well, and was happy cos mil brought our lovely pram back so i didnt have the hard to use one.Dh and i had a little fall out when trying to find a car parking space, as mil had wanted to go shopping late, at 11am there was no spaces and dh seemed to think that it was my fault he couldnt find one. but we made up when we got out of the car. Dh thought he would cheer me up by buying me a new outfit as I had said earlier on that I was feeling a bit frumpy at the moment, so i went into the changing rooms (was the ever-exciting Primarni!) and tried on a few tops and a pair of trousers and not one thing fitted, couldnt even go up a size as was already in the 18's which was the biggest size, so i thought id leave it a bit before buying new outfits, but when i came out Dh and Mil had got loads of things for me to try, and i couldnt tell them that nothing had fitted the first time so had to keep going back in 'trying things on' (half the time i just sat on the bench) was really disheartening. after about the fourth time i said "no more babe, im tired but thanks for trying." think mil could see i was a bit disappointed.
Annabelle then needed feeding and dh and i fell out a little bit as we couldnt find anywhere to stop and sit down to feed her and I spotted a bench that was free evenutally and rushed to get to it before anyone else, accidentally running over his foot with ds's pushchair. (I apologised) managed to get to said bench and sat down but dh went off in a huff into hmv, even tho i was saving the seat for him to sit down with the baby. so I got up and followed and even tho he wasnt really upset i couldnt contain my emotions, wobbly chin started and just started blubbering in the middle of the store so mil and fil took the children and dh and i had a cuddle outside the store, til i felt better.

we seem to be doing fine today. first day by myself with both children today and was pleased as got ds to playgroup just about on time which I thought I'd struggle with.

Trikken, sorry about your bad day yesterday but glad to hear that today seems to be better. I wonder when this hormonal crying will stop. I just had one too as Paula has been really crying and screaming a lot this morning.
BBL, do you actually put Toby to sleep in his cot during the day? Usually Paula is falling asleep in my arms, for example after breastfeeding or crying and after a while I just put her into her moses basket or her sofa corner. But she usually wakes up quickly (every 10th time she sleeps there though). The few times I put her into the bedroom where it would be calmer and darker, she woke up even quicker. But I suppose I should get her used to really "going to bed" even for a nap.

Trikken, what a day, bless you. It's so hard at the beginning, isn't it. The smallest thing can set you off, but your dh sounds supportive. I've cried alot more this time round than I did when I had ds and most of the time over something really trivial!

I haven't even attempted to leave the house yet with dd never mind both dcs, so you are doing very well, believe me! And the idea of shopping fills me with dread- even though thats what I was looking forward to most when I was pregnant! It's stressful at the best of times!

I put him in the moses basket for naps in the day with the bedside light on so it's not totally dark in there. He was sleeping in there fine in the daytime until today, now he doesn't seem to settle so easily. He'll fall asleep on me dead easy so I try to put him down before he gets to that stage and if he wakes in five mins, pick him up, cuddle him, try again until he settles properly. I don't leave him to cry. It has taken three times just now but he's now been asleep for an hour in there. It is hard work but worth it if it means he has a good sleep in his basket in the day. Next week though I'll be going to and from school three times a day so he'll be sleeping in transit no doubt.

I have only cried twice so far today! That's an achievement. I spent most of last week in tears... it must be the hormones plus great upheavel and lack of sleep. I'd just forgotten how it feels: all sorts of emotions love, joy, frustration, exhaustion, tiredness, tenderness, etc all in one.

I took all three children into town last Sunday afternoon and it was ok, but exhausting. I'm dreading having to do school runs next week. It's just soooo trying and I'd rather stay at home all cuddly and warm in baby fog.

Another one yearning to stay in baby fog here!! No chance though, but luckily I don't have any demand on my time until nursery pick up at 2pm which does make a hige difference.
I put Ioan down in his pram today at 12 for his lunchtime sleep. With DS1 I used to put him in his cot/basket with the curtains closed etc. Meant he slept great if we were home but wouldn't settle in his pram if we were out. Not going to be house bound this time around so hoping the pram is a good compromise.
His morning nap he tends to drop off wherever he is, although he uses his dummy then to get to sleep.

Trikken I'd be tempted to wake her a little during the day if it were me. I did that with Ioan just to get him to realise the difference. I also try and make daytime awake periods interesting showing him toys or things around the house, and don't speak to him at night.
I think it's harder when you have other little ones as napping when baby sleeps is nigh on impossible.

Off to a play place this afternoon so best sign off and start to gather together the reams of stuff I now take everywhere!

I leave Arthur in his basket for naps, and I keep natural light on him and keep music playing. With DS crashing about, there's no point him requiring complete silence for naps! At night, I keep the room dark except for a red nightlight. The trouble is the long evenings, really, when he's up until 10.30 or so - I strongly suspect that Arthur LIKES being awake in the evenings because a) Daddy is home, and b) he gets Mummy and Daddy all to himself. I don't want to sit and nurse him in a dark room for hours, I'd go batty.

In a few more weeks, I want to try to get him on to the 2/3/4 routine - he gets up at seven, goes down two hours later, wakes up from his nap for three hours, goes down for an afternoon nap, and then is up for four hours until bed. However, I'm aware there's not much point trying for a routine before 10 or 12 weeks (ok, unless you're Gina Ford, apparently, but I couldn't pull it off).

I've never heard of the 2/3/4 routine. How many weeks?

Toby is only two weeks but he does seem to have settled into his own vague pattern of day and night-time feeds and sleeps. He sleeps best in the morning and more fitfully in the afternoon and rubbish in the early evening. He still sleeps a lot. I don't quite understand how Gina Ford imposes her routines on such little babies. I have that book but there is just no way! It might suit some babies but not any baby I've ever had!!

Hi all,

Trikken I can totally relate to your shopping experience, clothes shopping can be hard at the best of times let alone when you've just had a baby!

Can't remember who asked about piles but I can recommend witch hazel gel to be applied to the area, calcium floride herbal tablets and cypress oil (put a few drops in a bath). The combination of all 3 cleared my piles up in a week so very much recommended!

Have no routine here, Millie stays up with hubby till 11ish and I go to bed at 10pm after feeding her, that way I get a good hours sleep as she has an awake period then. When I had ds he didn't go to bed at 7pm untill he was about 3 or 4 months, he used to cluster feed in evening so no point putting him to bed and Millie is the same. I am feeling relaxed about routine at the moment!

It's my birthday tomorrow but not doing much. Got the family coming round in the afternoon but in the evening I will probably just veg in frount of Strictly with a takeaway and glass of wine, bliss! God I'm boring!

Going clothes shopping on Sunday so wish me luck!

Hope everyone is well and gets a good nights sleep tonight...

That's made me feel a bit better that nobody is trying to impose too much of a routine. I suspect Gina Ford ignores her babies to get them to stick to the routine!!
We have one of sorts that's seeming to work, but in the evenings I suspect we'll stay with him being downstairs until about 9ish as, like Tamlin, I don't fancy being stuck in a room on my own nursing etc. whilst everyone else is downstairs watching tv.

Went out with a friend today, and a friend of hers was there with her newborn. He was 10 days premature and only 3 days younger than Ioan but about half the size!!

I'm not bothered about routines yet- maybe I should be. I just take Esme to bed when I go (around 8 ) and otherwise try to keep her up a bit and feed much in the early evening so she is tired and full when I go to bed. Then I read until she's asleep on my belly and we go from there. The last two nights she fed only twice at night and slept the rest pretty much, so knocking on wood here.

Bleery eyed today. Toby was quite unsettled last night zzzzz Today is Saturday and the DSs are about - one of DS1's friends has flu (possible swine flu) so I am worried that DS1 could get it! I'll be a mess if I have to cope with a poorly boy and a fractious baby

I am a bit of a believer in the baby setting the routine - they do have their own little internal clocks I reckon (so long as they don't think day is night and visa versa), I've always let mine take the lead to some extent and as they get older, three months or so, gently encourage them to stay consistent each day with their naps and feeds. I'm just worried that poor Toby is going to have to fit around school runs next week.

BBL it's the fitting around everything else that's prompted me to think about it. I agree in that Ioan seems to have come to a mini routine by himself so am going with that one, but will have to shape certain times of the day to fit with nursery runs.
I do think 2nd babies and later are more adaptable though out of necessity.

Taking all 3 DC's to a party then the Christmas Fair today - DH's team he supports has a major game on today so he's got peace to watch it. I must be mad!
On the plus side, have now been out twice feeding so confidence in that is growing.

Must be on another spurt too as bit of hourly feeding last night and big heavy melons again this morning. Ouch.

wasn't a gina fan with first baby - eh hello why would i be sitting dressed eating museli at 7am if the baby is sleeping..but someone gave me the gina baby and toddler book and doesn't seem too bad a routine to fit into the nursery/school run...

am wondering if can trade toddler in for another baby...awake, grumpy, hyper and tantruming from 6am while baby sleeps...

DS1 is poorly with earache and a temperature. Each friday he seems to come home from pre-school feeling ill! I'm home alone today as DH is doing some overtime. Baby isn't settling too well the last couple of days. He takes a dummy but he's not a fan of it. He would much rather my breast to comfort him. We had a bad night because I'm trying to get him used to his cot as I'm not sleeping (when I do!) very well with the co-sleeping, I've got backache and end up in the strangest positions to keep DH and baby away from each other. The cot is against my side of the bed and I can comfort him through the railings. My bed is also very high up so I can see him over the top of the cot. He really didn't like being put there but I guess it will take time to get him used to another sleeping place. I think we got to 4am and he ended up sleeping with me.

I'm playing with the idea of doing a formula top up of a night. I'm sure he is getting enough milk, as gaining good weight, but he wakes up several times a night for a feed (he's a suckler!). Not easy to keep up with when DS1 needs caring for as well. Also, I think DH wants the chance to bond with baby more because he hasn't been able to feed him, and baby only wants me when he's awake. I have expressed some milk for DH to try feeding with tonight. I'm hoping it buys me a couple more hours sleep. I've noticed a huge difference in DS1 & DS2. DS1 was formula fed and slept really well and would go to anyone. DS2 is more challenging with sleep etc and I'm convinced it's because he's breast fed.

Fruitpastels sounds like my day... Toby not settling at all for naps today. I am soooo tired today as he wasn't settling between feeds last night either. I guess they sort of 'wake up' a bit rather than being able to just go straight to sleep. I'm sure DS2 did this too.

DH is going to take everyone food shopping this afternoon and let me have a sleep. The world just seems so crummy when you are tired.

The only routine I've got with Isaac is to agree that there is no routine! It's so difficult to get him to go to sleep. I've been relying on the sling although BBL has inspired me to try again and get him to go in the pram for his nap this morning. I've been doing the cuddle / settle thing and he keeps waking up but you never know. If I do it 100 times he might get the idea! He would sleep in his pram or moses basket fine until he was about 3 weeks old so I'm not sure what changed. I'm worried I'll still be carrying him in the sling till he's 3 years old!

His feeds are becoming a bit more regular though which is good. At night he feeds at 11pm/3am and 7am on a good day which I can cope with.

It's such a minefield and I've only got the one. Goodness knows how those of you are coping with other kids. Hopefully it gets a bit easier second or third time round?

BBL It's so hard not complain at times. Lack of sleep does make you feel very crummy!! Nice to read that I'm not on my own Took from 7am to 11am to get baby off to sleep today. He was feeding and then napping on me on/off, when I've tried to move him to his cot or pram he's woken up and wide awake wanting another feed. I find my days much easier if I get out of the house in the morning. Couldn't do that today with DS1 being poorly. I need some bits from the shop and have to wait for DH to come home tonight to fetch them. I feel more upbeat now both DS's are sleeping and I managed a little nap as well. I have found the sleep deprivation much easier to handle than first time around. I think I was far more emotional with DS1 in the early weeks.

Absolutely knackered today, also one who did not get very much sleep, tho dh was sweet and has suggested he has Annabelle's moses basket on his side of the room tonight so he can look after her and I can sleep a bit better. (also brought me a coffee, think he noticed the sticks holding my eyelids up!) Am annoyed tho, my mum and step-dad came round for a visit and whilst my mum was being lovely, step-dad told me that Annabelle has 'Boss Eyes' wtf?! mum put him in his place tho and told him he was being silly, which made me feel better. He likes to 'give advice', where he is getting it from I have no idea, he has had no children of his own and got with my mum when we were 11 so its not like he has raised any babies. sorry for the rant, as my sister would say hes "getting all up in my grill."

Has anyone elses little one got a cold? Have been worrying about Bryn all night. He seems a lot better this morning but he had a low fever in the early evening, and if he hadn't have passed it onto me I'd have been running around like a headless chicken.

Hope you're all doing well. I can't believe we're here with babies now after "meeting" so long ago

why is motherhood just constant worrying...i am worried because DD has been sleeping all day...usually she is alert for a while but today she has just been waking has abit of a feed and then passes out again...and her eye is all gooey...sure i won't be saying this when she is awake all nite!?

also the length of time they should breastfeed for - she never does more than 10 mins? if she doesnt fall asleep i try to give her more 20 mins later

also for those with sleeping concerns would strongly recommend buying the fisher price magic swing, its worth its weigh in gold