NOV 09 - once the lights are out and the last baby has arrived safe and fine, see you here on cloud nine!

[Broodzilla]

I've just realized we're now under the "being a parent" header. I've got stage freight!

I am so tired I can't sleep at night now. I feel the pressure 'must sleep, must sleep' when Toby goes down at night and it takes me ages to drop off. DH came home early and made me go to bed just now for a nap - could I sleep though? No!

Scarlotti glad your DH is better!

Trikken also in awe of you. I'm struggling with 3-4 hour blocks at night.

Oh well done Pav and Long ! I knew you'd be here soon!

maman do you at last get the luxury aftercare with the laundry help and all?

No sleep here either the last two nights, plus our friends after invitng themselves, promising but not bringing food (not paying for the pizza either) schlepped the cold into our house (oh no, she's just teething).
but feel really and purely happy to have my two girls. it is fab to have something that is just pure good, no questions asked. just thinking back to ttc makes me feel so lucky I have them...

Hi all sorry iv havent been on in so long! Huge congratulations to all the new arrivals. been quite tearfull today , my mum has gone home after staying to help out so prob partly due to this and also pearly has been quite tearfull the past couple of days and not sleeping well after being so good you wouldn't have known she was there. Every time she has cryed so have i , i just felt soo guilty that i didn't no what was wrong with her. BUT i think we have solved the mystery - we had stopped swaddling her the when she was going to sleep as so we decided to try swaddling her again and hey presto she fell straight asleep and only woke to be fed going straight back to sleep. Oh i wish babies could talk and tell us whats wrong! hope your all well il try and update myself on everyone news soon, reading the pages iv missed! Hope everyone is loving being a mummy and surviving on lack of sleep and healing nicely!!!!

Congrats pavlov longwayaway and katster!

Had a pretty tiring night with Isaac. He was crying all early evening and wouldn't settle in his moses basket at all last night so he eventually slept for a couple of hours on dh's chest from about 12.30-3.30 and I've been up with him since then. He won't let me put him down at all so I've got him in a sling. Will try and take him for a walk later and see if I can get him to sleep in the pram. zzzzzzzzzzzz

Oh Lemontop poor you. Does he have colic?

Swaddling is great - I'm a big fan. I've always swaddled all three until they are about 3 months and able to sleep in one of those gro bags (makes them sound like a tomato plant!).

Morning all.

I have a couple of questions if I may? Excuse the selfishness of diving straight in without so much of a how are you. I promise I will be more civil in a moment!

1. Breastfeeding. I have very very sore nipples. Reuben appears to bite down when he first latches on, and while he then settles after a couple of suckles, he has really hurt the nipples, and now they are cracked and extremely painful. I am not sure if he is now latching properly and they are just still sore or if he is continueing to make them sorer. MW came yesterday and said his latch appeared fine and he was swallowing, and he threw up golden sick which meant he was getting plenty of good colostrum. Is this pain normal? I had pain with DD but she struggled to latch well for a few days, where Reuben appears to be latching fine once he has done a little grinding with his gums first(ouchy!). Any advice/reassurances would be great from those already going through this.

1. Sore down below. Again, saw MW yesterday and right up to seeing her, down below appears to have been healing ok. I had a 1st degree tear with no stitching. It smarted for a couple of days, but bearable, and improving, keeping clean. Almost as soon as MW went, it stung like a mofo to go to the loo (along with current poor pelvic floor so could not steady flow to ease pain!). I have started to douse with warm water as I go to the loo but the pain is quite excrutiating and sore straight afterwards, and seems to be stinging more, not less. So is this normal too? And also, is having a salty bath a good idea?

Thanks!

BBL am sorry you have been having it so rough, i really hope you get a break soon and can catch up on some clearly needed sleep.

lemontop Reuben clearly does not like his moses basket either. I have not tried him in anything else yet, he likes mama's chest/boobs/lap or DHs if he is full. MW yesterday said when placing him in the basket to put gentle pressure on his chest/tummy to give him the feeling that he is still being cuddled, have tried it, and it worked once last night, for about 1 hour! He prefers to sleep next to me on the bed tucked into the crook of my arm. I had said not c0-sleeping, but seems to be happening . I wonder if it is that the basket is colder than our bed/arms/legs .

pav I had a second degree tear which was sore for weeks! I took neurofen regularly for a couple of weeks and found sitting down very uncomfortable. I think it is normal for the area to be sore for a while, considering what has just come out of us! Also, if midwife has had a look and it all appears to be healing I am sure it's fine.

As for the sore nipples, dd used to do the biting thing, although it was more like clamping down, and for the first 30 seconds it hurt and then would be ok. She has stopped doing it now so hopefully Reuben will be the same, use plenty of lansinoh in the meantime! Hope the nipples and undercarriage feel better soon!

Pav my nipples got very sore too, and cracked, bleeding, the whole works, and I was told the latch was fine every time a MW came round or when I went to the breastfeeding drop in. I suspect it is normal for many people to get sore, esp when the baby is feeding a lot before your milk comes in - keep at it though (hopefully you will do better than me).

I do the gentle pressure on chest thing too with Toby and it works quite well most of the time. I also 'shhh shhh' at him and that works too. The thing is they are going to prefer being with us all snuggled up and warm and cosy because we smell so nice to them, much better than their moses basket. I wonder if sleeping with his blanket one night and swaddling in that the next night might help - then they have the smell with them? Just a thought.

I've just managed a bath. Whey hey! I half expected to hear 'waaaa' as I put shampoo on my hair!

pav bbl Thanks for advice! Will try the pressure on the chest thing and the sleeping with blanket (can you tell I'm a bit desperate?!). I've tried swaddling Isaac but he just kicks off all the blankets in seconds. It's a shame cos he startles himself awake a lot of the time so swaddling would make him feel more secure. I think last night's crying could be down to colic but I'm just guessing. Colic is supposed to ease off after about 6 weeks but with Isaac being premature you have to add on the weeks he was born early and go by his 'corrected age'.

He's slept for two hours in the sling this morning . I just wish I could put him down sometimes, particularly at night! Jealous of your bath bbl!

Lemontop you can buy special swaddling blankets. I think it was either Bloomin Marvellous or Jo Jo Mamon Babe that have them. I haven't got one but that might be worth a try...

I don't want to depress you but I thought colic could last longer than that... I'm not sure though. DS1 had it and he 'grew out of it' I guess at around 3 months but every evening until then I carried him around the house most evenings until he would finally settle. It did get better after 8 weeks and he settled earlier in the evening at about 7pm/8pm by then, I think but I don't remember. There was one night when he was about 4 weeks old when DH and I were desperate and gave him a bath at midnight to try to settle him after ringing my mum in desperation 'help he won't sleep!!!!'. It worked so after that we started a bathtime routine with him (not quite at midnight though). Have you tried a bathtime / bedtime routine - bath, feed, etc? Don't know if it will work but anything is worth a try...

Colic is supposed to peak at six weeks, and tail off at twelve, I think.

Lemontop, have you tried a sleepsack (Grobag) to get past the transition from Mummy's-warm-bed to cold-Moses-basket? I love those things. Arthur was in bed with me for the first three weeks or so, and I'm just now getting him in his basket all night - when he's really windy, though, all he wants to do is sleep facedown on my chest. I think he'd sleep much better on his tummy all the time, but I just daren't do it unless he's on top of me.

Pavlov, I used to use a spray bottle with warm water while using the loo, and take sitz baths with a couple of drops of tea tree oil. (After DS 1, this is.)

DH took Arthur last night at nine, and returned him at two. He was in a bit of a temper (DH, not Arthur) - apparently Arthur just grumbled, fussed and fed endlessly from nine until midnight. He then slept from midnight until I WOKE him at half-past three because my breasts were so full and painful that I couldn't sleep and I was leaking all over the place. That's the bugger of breastfeeding, even when somebody takes the baby with a bottle you STILL wind up in discomfort...

Lemontop, Paula sometimes cries for quite a while too (not as long as Isaac does though). I think it is usually due to digestion which seems to be pretty hard for her.
It sometimes helps if someone else than me is holding her , if I hold her with her face and belly looking down, so my hand is actually on her belly (in general position change seems to help at least for a while) and singing softly (and far to slowly) very close to her face/ear. Her favourite song would be Haenschen klein, a song of a boy leaving home... once again
pavlov, I think bf always hurts at the beginning, it is just a lie about the right latch would not hurt. Nipples are sensitive and usually not used so often so they have to get used to it. I had one cracked nipple and just kept going. I put breastmilk on it after feeding and let it airdry. After a couple of days it got better.
I didn't have any tear but the whole area felt strange/painful for about 10 days when sitting down, walking or peeing. And actually it was more painful after peeing. I used a bottle of warm water during peeing (usually not enough) but I have to say the best way to pee was in the shower... I was kneeling down and had the shower head directly over my labia (actually even better, if you open them slightly with one hand). I also felt that this was the best way to get really clean.
Ok, Paula needs me, I hope I didn't forget anything.

Right, I've spent two days catching up on this thread and typing in Word at the same time, so please excuse my comments, am sure they're all out of date...
Scarlotti , Helips ,Wook and Fruitpastels oooh, am so glad to hear that you're co-sleeping and that someone else nurses in bed and falls asleep while at it...
DS sleeps with me now (DH has been camped out in the spare room in order to get some sleep...) and I much prefer it this way as more often than not when he gets hungry at night he doesn't even wake up properly, I wake up to him smacking his chops and "plug him in" and he eats while sleeping. I must admit I find myself nodding off... but every person who's found out that I'm co-sleeping has tutted/rolled their eyes or just generally gone "riiiight...".

I've been told to feed one side at a time to make sure DS gets all "3 courses": watery foremilk to quench the thirst, milk and then creamy hindmilk to fill him up.

Tamlin I, too, tend to get woken up again for the winding... either that or I get vomited on. Do you know anyone in Ireland that could send you some probiotic drops? You can't get them in England but they've really helped DS. (I had them sent from Sweden so if anyone knows how to mail order from Ireland please let me know!)

Also... I love, love, love DS, like nothing else in the world. But I must say that after he was FINALLY out (must add that at that point I'd been awake for 40+ hours, in labour an unknown time and pushing for over an hour...) I do remember asking why he wasn't crying (apparently it only took a few seconds until he did so I don't know why) and then... just shut my eyes and rested my head on the back of the bed, as I'd pushed him out on all fours. I probably even fell asleep. Then I delivered the placenta and got stiched. I didn't see DS until they handed him to me to BF... and I've felt guilty about it afterwards as DH keeps talking about what he looked like when he entered the world. I think I was slightly in shock/disorientated and it didn't really sink in that he was in the world, and I'd given birth. I felt so spaced out that when we went back to the room and the MW came over to explain to me what I needed to do and when, and what checks DS would be having I remember looking at her thinking "n-o-n-e of this is going in... must keep eyes open and keep nodding my head".

Lemontop OMG... I know having babies is not a competition but you should have some sort of an award - I can't imagine how horrid it must've been to have to spend that time apart! Glad you're both doing great now.

Ursi I had to express in hospital and used an electric Medela one. Didn't like it much, it made me feel like a cow! Might be useful if you needed something to get the milk going, but as you're really just needing to express, I'm sure you'll be just fine with a handheld one. Mine's Tommee Tippee Closer to Nature and I love it. Also re: bras did you know that a size down across your back means a size up in cups? So if you're normally 36B, try a 34C - you might be pleasantly surprised. I only found that out after a bra-fitting, I'd been wearing the wrong size all my life!

Tamlin Hope your CS scar is healing ok after the ordeal! Can't believe you manage to BF with a sling - I've tried and tried to even get Lukas to be in it around the house so I can get things done, but I'm clearly not doing it right as he looks really uncomfortable and I have to keep one hand on him so he doesn't fall out!

TOK I'm exclusively BFing and Lukas still got a cold so no need for you to feel guilty!

Oooh Katster and Pavlov WELCOME!!! Congratulaitons!!! Thanks for the lovely birthstories, with a few giggles thrown in too. Are we all here now? Raggie?

Pavlov Re the BFing. I'm by no means an expert, but may I suggest you try manhandling your nipples a bit before you offer them to Reuben? You'll be gentler with them than he is, and I found with Lukas that if the nipples are soft he keeps "playing" with them until he's got them as he likes them. Don't know if that'll help, but worth a try? Re undercarriage... I had a couple of stitches. Defo got worse before they got better, not infected, but strangely uncomfortable (like something was pulling on them or like I had trush or something...) anyway, despite me tearing them (blitzed the house...) apparently they healed beautifully, and I basically hosed myself with the shower every time I went to the loo (1 and 2) and made sure I was all dry.
MW suggested that just as the baby needs to air his bum, so do we to let the area heal. Pop an old towel on the bed and sleep in the buff (with all those nightsweats who needs PJs anyway?)

Just quickly popping in!

Pav pour some witch hazel on a maxi pad and chuck it in the freezer till nice and cold. That's what they tel lyou in the hospital here to do to help perineum.

I co sleep too, in the worst way...not worred about it, though.

Also, quick news update from camp Broodzilla... Lukas is on day 13 of his cold. I've not slept for more than an hour or two at a time since it started. Took Lukas to A&E on Sat night due to him being incredibly congested and struggling to catch his breath. Was seen by a lovely Doc who made sure his chest was clear and no temp... suggested Saline drops and said that at this age colds last AT LEAST 7 to 10 days as they've got no immune system. I felt a bit calmer. Sunday and yesterday Lukas was getting worse, and yesterday PM Lukas was on my chest when he started to make a really weird "whee, whee" noise... so I then called the HV who listened to his breathing over the phone and told me to bundle him up and bring him in to the surgery right away. I stayed calm and got him dressed and in the carseat... and then couldn't find my car keyes anywhere. Remembered DH had borrowed my car a couple of days ago and called him mildly hysterical to ask where my keys were. Ran around the house and basically looked everywhere (the house looked like it had been burgled) but no keys... for a moment I nearly started running to the surgery with Lukas in his carseat (the pram was dismanteled) until I remembered that our next door neighbours once said to let them know if I needed anything... Mrs X let me in and I basically ended up hysterically sobbing. Mr X then bundled me and Lukas in the car and took us to the Drs (even made sure we got in ok... I was in a state...)

Wouldn't you know it, as soon as we were in the surgery Lukas was breathing better. He got checked over by a nurse and a doctor, and of course, as I was in hysterics, they then exchanged a few knowing glanzes and started the whole "you need some rest, have you got any help, can anyone come and stay with you" pityparty. So now I feel like an idiot and am sure I'm on some sort of maniac mother watch list. Having said that, I couldn't stop crying last night, even after I was home, so maybe I need to be?

So far, got Lukas on

• the cot wedge so that he's upright
• saline drops for his nose
• the snot sucker
• baby aromatherapy decongestant drops in a vapouriser around the clock nearly...

I don't know what else to do. Apparently they can't give him anything, and apparently as long as his breathing is better (not ok) between the episodes of him trashing around trying to catch his breath and making weird noises... it should be ok. Also, no fever is good news.

So I guess I can't do much else apart from wait? It really has made me re-think the swineflujab though. I wasn't going to have it, but I know BF babies would get some immunity from the milk if their mums have the jab. Anyone else thinking along similar lines? Have you chosen to/not to have it and why?

Right... will catch up on Flashforward from last night, Lukas is sleeping on the nursing pillow on my lap (on his side, which I know is a big no-no, but it helps him breathe.)

One last thing... to any new mamas out there (and why not old ones too) get your hands on "Your Baby Week by Week" (Cave and Fertleman) mine arrived yesterday and I've already spent eery spare minute reading... wish I'd have had it from day 1 as it's got so much useful stuff and written in a really easy way (useful when you've got the attention span of a goldfish) so that you can find what you need at a glance. Has everything from what's going on with the baby and your own body, to how many poos/hours of crying/sleeping/awakefulness to expect in any given week. It covers EVERYTHING. It's my new bible.

Woo, one-handed typing

We're also having trouble with the transfer from human to cot (tho now only at night which is when we really need her to feel secure in it!) - MW noticed our brand new moses basket when she visited last and said to drip some breast milk in there, and leave some clothes in that smell like you.

Sore nipples - yes, there is an initial clampdown that hurts like $#&! but after that the pressure wears off. Lansinoh on the cracked parts? That's all I've got.

Boo hoo to the eye-rollers and tutters. There is no 'right way' or 'wrong way' to bringing up a baby (except leaving them to holler in the pram at the bottom of the garden all weathers as propsed by Dr Spok or whoever it was). I hate it when people feel they need to pass their judgement like that.

broodzilla i know what ou mean about the colds, if someone had mentionned all the scary wheezing and cough i think i'd have planned summer baby!! Wasn't planning on having the swine flu jab but now i've changed my mind, what with ds1 at nursery and dp at work we've all go pemanent colds hate to think what would happen if someone got flu.

Plus I had the same reaction as you after my emcs, once baby was out I remember thinking "is he ok?" "great you can take him away now i'm going to sleep!"

Seriously fed up here as i get no sleep, ds1 has finally started to play up -at jealousy thing cue bad behaviour, i want maman and accidents at school (1 and 2!!!)Please let school be OK today v. worried they'll kick him out if he keeps having accidents. And just to round off a perfect day the time its taken me to write this milk has leaked out all over yet another t-shirt!!Bad Bad day

Hello all,

I am kicking myself for not checking in here for a while, looks like I've missed some great advice when I needed it! It is so good to here that some of you are co-sleeping, I've been so tired that I fall asleep feeding at night so Henry tends to sleep next to me until i wake and move him, I'd been feeling really guilty about it, but feel a bit better knowing I'm not the only one.

Maman your ds's behavior is perfectly normal for a lo who has just become a big brother, I know it won't help you now but this really is just a stage, and he will get through it, don't blame yourself. As for school, they will be used this sort of thing happening, they certainly won't kick him out! I hope your day gets better.

Brood thanks for the book tip, might look that up as I'd got rid of all my baby books.

Hi ladies
Brood OMG re cold - that sounds horrendous. I am so, so scared of Sam getting a cold. I really don't want to ever leave the house except for little walks. Where did you get the snot sucker from? DO they sell them at the chemist?

I am booked to have the swineflu jab on Friday, based on the assumption that some immunity must pass on through milk??? That, and the fact that I would not be able to look after him if I had swineflu. I am so so scared of flu. I really am not sure the end of Nov is the best time to have a baby.

My nipples are sore, too. But most of all, I am finding the latching business hard. Quite often, he gets on, then has about 5 slurps, and drops off in a sort of sleepy haze. Then he gets frustrated and shakes his head everywhere, and this is repeated for quite a while. On average he actually feeds for about 5 minutes, but a 5 minute feed takes about 20 minutes, with all the faffing. And this is every hour or so... Hmm.

Anyway, feel like things are getting a bit more normal now, although I am wondering if I am scarily obsessed with him - I literally can't think/talk about anything else!

Katster, Paula was the same a couple of weeks ago. Sam will get much more efficient in his feeds. During the day, Paula still likes the sucking-sleeping thing but at night, she sucks like mad and after 5min everthing is done... the last couple of nights she has been wide awake afterwards and wanted entertainment...
longwayaway, I'll try the tip of your MW. Just put a muslinsquare under my t-shirt to get some of my smell on it. Will add some breastmilk too. Hopefully that will work.

katster and ursi Oh - I also just learned that turning infants on their side makes them pass out, essentially! Great for soothing but not so good if you are trying to keep them awake and feeding. I try to tilt my LO so that her head is higher than her bum while she feeds, and rub her back or otherwise try to stimulate her and keep her slurping. Good luck!

LO was awake from 12am-5am solid last night - only breaking from crying when I fed her, which I wasn't willing to do for five hours straight... DH was a rock star and managed to get her down around 5:30am after several hours of rocking, singing, etc and we slept till noon (with one feeding break around 8). This obviously is not going to work in the long term! Yeesh.

longway, interesting point with infants lying on their sides, that seems to be (partly) true for Paula.
I quite gave up using tricks on Paula to keep her awake. Even nappy change in a rather cold room doesn't wake her up if I want her to wake up. And on other times she would drink a lot and be wide awake. Apparently she hasn't read the same books about babies behaviour than me

Hi all

Bf - yes, it hurt like hell when he latched on for the first two weeks. It's a grit your teeth and bear it job, but then one day it just doesn't hurt anymore. You can try creams and air drying, but time is the best healer sadly.
pav also a 1st degree graze here with no stitches and I found it definitely got worse about 5 days after. I think the bruising initially numbs the pain as it squashes the nerves. As the bruising eases, the pain increases. Keep a jug (at least a 2 litre one) next to the loo and fill it with water every time you pee, pour before peeing and make sure it lasts for the full flow.

No longer co-sleeping here as found that I was having difficulties getting him latched on, was propping myself up on my arm by the bed to get him on, then as I lowered myself flat he'd fall off. So now I sit myself up and use the feeding pillow. I still seem to doze off whilst sitting up though!!

Tips for moses basket - before you put baby in, take the mattress out and sit on it. If you can sit with your legs out so you cover most of the mattress even better. Give it a few mins to warm up and bingo. Also, get yourself and your DP/H to wear a t-shirt to bed one night so they smell of you both. Take the t-shirts and then roll them up, wedge down either side of baby - secure sides will help and it will also smell of you.

swaddling - babies like to have their arms across their chest so if you're swaddling with arms by their side they will fight their way out. Swaddle with arms crossed at chest level and you might find it stays better. Also make sure the last wrap of the swaddle is under them so their weight holds it down. We used a cot sheet for the first two weeks to swaddle then moved to a grobag.

All of the above it just stuff I've found from my 3 so take from it what you will!!

HV came again today - Ioan has put on 12oz in a week!! There I was worrying that as he only seems to feed in 10 minute blocks he might not be putting on weight, and now he's so big we have to move to 0-3 clothes!

Tamlin so glad you managed to get a good block of sleep last night despite having to wake him to feed. It's a bugger when they're sleeping beautifully but then your boobs wake you up have had a few nights like that!