Dec 08 babies are nearly one - PARTY TIME!

[EffiePerine]

As I accidentally filled up the old thread I thought I'd better start a new one

LadyT there is no goss really. I felt terribly fat and frumpy in the Troubadour. Was lots of women older than me and much much thinner and prettier. I saw no celebrities which is really quite annoying as my brother seems to see loads whenever he goes to London. I did like Fulham Broadway. It seems a nice place to have some dinner. I really miss not being near London, I grew up spending probably every other weekend in London from about 14 until I was 18. I would certainly treat myself to a flat or house there if we were to win the lottery. The dog show was good, met some friends that I've not seen for a while. Hoping to make Crufts next year again as a friend has 2 qualified. Oh and I love planes!!! I slept awfully, about 4 hours all night so spent ages watching planes going over. I always sleep badly when I am away from the boys. But at least I had my beloved 747s to keep me company.

Gosh what a ramble!! Sorry!!! Most of it is boring tosh!!

Love the list. Can't believe it was all a year ago.

PD, I would not be without my iPod touch. I am posting from it now!! I use it all the time and I love it.

Hope everyone is well.

Kayz, I am so glad you had a nice time but you mustn't get down on yourself, lady. You know I am totally with you on the feeling fat. I am seeing a specialist again on Thursday about my complete inability to shed weight (I know I have the odd spot but generally I am very careful) as I think they are going to have to up my dose of the pills which regulate my blood sugar and help my body to be more sensitive to insulin. I could scream every day when I get on the scales.

PD, I am such an old fuddy duddy. I thought an iTouch was an iPhone crossed with an iPod. But I don't know about this stuff.

Veggie, I know exactly what you mean. I have started to get a bit wistful about tiny babies as DD seems more and more like a toddler (a non-moving one, obviously)

ladyt I think my parents are staying in Marsa alam? So not Luxor. Have a wonderful birthday O!

veggie I get a little teary when I think of DS getting all grown up, he too is my last.

DS very upset in the night and had to put him in bed with us. He just wouldn't settle, no matter what. But I think he might be a tad constipated Yesterday we had random bouts of screaming like he was in pain. Followed by a tiny amount of hard poo in his nappy He doesn't really like fruit juice, so have been giving weetabix at breakfast and trying to get as much fruit and veg into him as I can. anyone any ideas??? Also he doesn't drink a lot really so this is probably not helping either. He just seems to have a few sips of water here and there.

LadyT, I am rather pleased you still write in longhand. Just think of the lovely archives can cen bequeath when you are rich and famous . I love seeing handwritten and corrected manuscripts and feel a bit sad that we are losing that with everyone typing direct onto a computer. I rememeber seeing sone of Patrick Leigh Fermor's manuscripts (poss on a telly programme) with all his numerous re-writings and corrections. DH has a fondness for writing in little notebooks though most of his stuff is done at the computer.

JJ: hope DD settles in to nursery, it is a big change for her so it may take time. Glad your boss is supportive.

Kayz: I'm not keen on dogs or crowds so wouldn't envy a trip to the dog show but am glad you enjoyed yourself. Despite working (and till recently living) in London for 10 years I have rarely seen any celebs. Mainly because I have no idea what they look like and I walk around in a dream most of the time. DH and I did sit next to Josie Lawrence (remember her?) in a pub once and it was hideous, she was v loud and surrounded by equally loud and fawning friends. I approve of the kind of celeb spotting that involves them saying or doing something nice to you (wasn't it WG who said Adrian Chiles was nice to her DD?) rather them invading your personal space

DD: sorry for the bad night, it's hard to know what exactly is wrong sometimes. Re constipation, I find the Organix pear and raspberry puree is pretty good, in fact any fruit puree might help and would be pretty watery.

PD: I have no knowledge about the iTouch, but I think you;d be justified in swapping or part exchanging it for something you actually want. Hope you have a great hol and a lovely birthday .

Hello,
JJ wow - I had a feeling S might be walking pretty fast! ds stood the other day for about 10 seconds but he got really proud of himself and then now when he tries to let go he gets really excited and jumps up and down so falls over, however I don't think it'll be long as he runs everything in his path down with his speedy trips on his walker! Hope S settles in at nursery, i'm sure she will very soon as she seems like such an extrovert!

kayz shame you didn't get to explore too much - the weather was shocking though and glad you enjoyed the dog show. I used to go to Yo Sushi a lot in Fulham Broadway. Love that place.

Lady Congrats on the book!!!! Will toast you.We lived on site when we renovated & never take on the size of project we did and live on site again! it's a miracle we are still together! We also were doing it as the money came in and fo a time it didn't and we lived on a building site for months - 18 months in total! We had some friends stay a few nights during it and they are used to camping and roughing it, and they left early!

veggie - great news on the school. I've gotta say, reading your posts you are very remarkable to be adapting to all this - schools, 2 kids, languages etc.. I remember living in japan for 18 months in my (ahem) younger years, and it was enough to run a very small 6 tatami flat there with just my boyfriend let alone trying to get kids settled into schools etc. My hat goes off to you.

PD not sure about the iphone although I've heard the new one is much better than the first which had a lot of glitches. They have lots of applications etc, and I suspect I would love it, however I'm a Blackberry lover so don't think I could switch.
Have a great holiday and birthday!!

Thanks for that list of babies!! Wow a year ago now.... amazing, and although I hated the pregnancy part I am strangely looking forward to it again, and I can sort of understand how I too will probably be slightly sad after the 2nd since it will be the last

Right I can't decide whether to go to Westfield this afternoon. DH has to go to Paddington so it would be an easy lift in and potential nice dinnerhmm...

Hello everyone,
Sorry I have not been on for ages, and now apologise in advance as I need to ask all your advice and I have a pukey bug so just want to go to sleep (one advantage of nursery being - I am ill, DS is at nursery, so I CAN sleep) after so will fail to do personal stuff. Also I think this is going to be long...

So DS's sleep has been a bit hit and miss since going to nursery, but he HAS been ill twice. Basically he is normally a very good sleeper (sleeps through) but he really doesn't like going to sleep without me or DH in the room recently, you can sit with him for half an hour, be convinced he is asleep and as soon as you move to leave the room his eyes spring open and he wails. In the evening this tends to be ok as he will cry for a bit (5 mins) and then sleep. In the night it is a different matter, and over the last few weeks I have either brought him into bed with me or slept with him in his room. But MOST of these times have been when he has been ill, there have been maybe three times otherwise. All other nights he has either gone back down on his own or slept through.

So, the problem is DH is CONVINCED we are getting him into bad habits. I have a stomach bug, and so last night he went to get up to him (not that he doesn't ever get up but last night it was a given), and his method of resettling him was to talk to him for about three minutes, and then leave him, with him still crying just as loudly. I told him that was stupid and no good and suggested that he checks that DS hasn't done a poo (he has had diarrhoea) or that he isn't thirsty (he didn't finish his milk). I should add that DS is sort of well now, but has had a stomach bug (presumably the same one I have got) over the last few days. So he went back in and got him to what he thought was sleep, leaves, he wails. We repeat about 5 times, leaving him longer times to resettle, longest being 20 mins! After 2.5 hrs he goes back to sleep. He wakes 1hr later wailing and is so upset and wound up. DH had earlier said "we need to teach him that we won't take him out of the cot, blah blah blah" which I think is harsh seeing as he's only just getting well, but now he decides that he needs to get him to sleep and so we should get him out. Basically we end up having a massive fight about it, and I get DS to sleep in the spare bed with me.

So the main problem is not DS's sleep - I don't think it's THAT bad. It's that DH gets so wound up about it. I think it is just a phase, he has been ill and if the easiest way is to sometimes sleep with him (and sometimes I can transfer him back to cot when he is fully asleep) we should go with that til he is settled at nursery and has had all the nasty bugs going around. DH strongly disagrees, and says DS is getting spoilt and used to us making a fuss of him when he wakes up in the night. He basically also says last night didn't work because I said that we should go back in to him the first time after 5 mins, and let the times be longer (a la controlled crying). He says this got him over tired, we should go in and comfort him once, and then leave him to cry indefinitely! I am not willing to do this. He says it would work - I can't disprove that without letting him try it but I don't want to. He says that the "controlled crying" we did last night "didn't work" so we won't be trying that again according to him (I have told him if you do it you have to be committed and it takes at least 3 nights). Seeing as I am not willing to let him do his "method" he says we will have to carry on with what I want to do. But that means that he will whinge he is tired, get really wound up about it, and blame me if DS's sleep deteriorates. I really need his help with sleeping problems seeing as I am back at work now.

Typing all this out it sounds trivial (I still think DS is a good sleeper) but I am really upset about it. We need a strategy that we both agree to and we can't agree. He refuses to read sleep articles on the internet, he seems to think he has some intuition and he is "right"

I am also really stressed that DH wants a second DC. I don't know what we will do if
we have a nightmare sleeper with our different attitudes.

I don't know what to do - help! I would post this on sleep but I think both of us would get flamed.

Sorry again for lack of personal messages. Need a kip!

Summer - I don't understand the last couple of sentences in the 3rd paragraph? "but now he decides that he needs to get him to sleep and so we should get him out" do you mean now your dh has decided that he wants you to get him out of the cot and you should sleep in the spare bed with ds? I'm confused... or am I being thick?

Well despite being insistent that we should get him back to sleep just by reassuring him in his cot, he then decided that actually no, now we should get him out and do whatever to get him back to sleep. Which seemed contradictory to me, so DH tried to get him to sleep in the cot - DS went mental, there was no way he was even calming down, let alone going to sleep. In the end i took him to the spare room and got him to sleep with me. So the whole thing was a fiasco, and you are right I am not making much sense.

hmm - if I go by what you are saying when you said what the main problem is, I would say ..... eek... I would give dh's plan a try, however, I would make sure ds has a clean nappy and it sounds to me (albeit a fairly inexperienced opinion) that there could be some sore teeth involved, so dose him up on something before bed too, make sure room temp is all ok etc and then try what dh is suggesting.... then if it doesn't work you at least have tried it. I hate to say it but my dh doesn't like that 5 min then 10 min then 15 thing either, and insisted on just sorting him out and leaving him. It worked quite fast, and I do tend to (sorry Summer!) slightly agree with your dh on the bad habit thing, except, if ds is a bit ill or some big teething pains, in those cases I have actually got ds up and downstairs and even let him watch a bit of "quiet baby telly" until he's tired and then put him back as during those few times I have (when he's had major teething pain) weI have felt that if I do the interval CC thing it makes it seem too much like I will continue to come back rather than keeping it a whole seperate thing and I've often felt and experienced that going back into him at all has not settled him, but rather done the exact opposite and he would just scream until as he knew I would come back eventually.
I think it is so much harder for the mother than the father to listen to the screams, but if it is not blood curdling, and he's not in any obvious massive pain, I would try it. However having said that, if he does go beyond the point of no return and gets massively worked up, I would get him up completely and then make it a whole new event out of going to bed. I'm not sure if I'm making sense, and I need to stress I am only saying what has worked for us, so the others might totally disagree... so please ignore me if you think i'm way off track!!

SL: could you reach a compromise with DH? I think there's a lot to be said for treating babies under 1 year differently, even Christopher Green of toddler taming fame says there's not point in worrying about bad habits in babies under a year old. Many people don't recommend sleep training before a year for that reason. If you're happy with giving DS more attention now (and he is prob going through separation anxiety as well if he;s anything like DS2) then can you say right, this is what we;re doing to get through this patch then we'll look a t sleep training when he's a year old (i.e. after Christmas). Then back your idea up with a few references (will see if I can find any, am sure that Richard Ferber now doesn;t advicate sleep training before 12 months).

Summer I just cross posted with you - that's what I was confued about - yes he is totally contradicting! Why does he want to suddenly get him out now?? Cod dh wants sleep now?? oh I would be livid at that. So it sounds as though you are not actually too bothered about trying dh's initial methods, you are just pissed about the change of plan to suit himself (your dh)? Yes i'd be completely pissed off. What did he say when you told him he was contradicting himself?

x-post there - not dissing those who are doing sleep training earlier, just that I don;t think it works that well for us (and have tried some CC with DS2, it didn;t last long)

oh and DH does that middle of the night wobble as well - he was all for stopping night feeds but was perfectly happy to bring DS2 into our bed to stop the 2am wailing despite complaining about that before! You do need to be firm and consistent with any parenting issue like this (eek!) so if wither of you isn;t clear on what you're doing or 100% happy it isn't going to work.

How long would you leave him though?? One night we were arguing about whether to go in or leave him and while we were discussing it (yes we were going round in circles in our discussion) he cried solidly for 40 mins. Which is ridiculous, and I don't want to do again.

He used to be like you say - going back in would be pointless and leaving him better, but now it has reversed. He will cry indefinitely, I think he only stopped because he was exhuasted last night. He was sooo wound up. Going in and comforting him calms him down quickly - he would basically go to sleep but he must have still had half an ear out because every time we tried to sneak out he woke up straight away.

I think he is still not right from his bug, it was only the night before that he woke at 2am because he had been sick everywhere. So I just feel that DH is being harsh and we should get him to sleep however we can for a week or so til he is definitely feeling better (though admittedly there was no evidence last night he was ill)

x-post again!
rubena to be fair yes, he was changing his methods cos he wanted some sleep, BUT when I said that was stupid he went to try and comfort him in his cot. But I have never seen DS so furious so I gave in and said we should get him out. So both of us being contradictory. I just think DH thought it would be easy, we leave him to cry - he goes to sleep - sorted. I know from other peoples experiences that it wouldn't work like that and if we do sleep training I want to be prepared and ready for a shit nights sleep or several, and not do it while throwing up with a tummy bug and feeling crap.
effie the problem with compromise is that neither of us is happy, DH thinks what we did last night didn't work because we didn't do it exactly how he wanted. and re putting it off, he is convinced we are getting him into bad habits, whcih I will accept, but surely not so fast that leaving it til life has settled down from all these bugs will make much difference.

Hmmm I have left him for 20-30 mins before but have only had to do that once or twice earlier on, and then he got the idea. it depends whether he is crying for the attention or genuinely hurting from teething or feeling ill. i would have no problem leaving him if he's not sick / teething, but i agree it's hard to know. If the crying is screaming and no sign of winding down, then 40 mins probably too long for me and that's when i'd be removing him completely from the cot and getting him in a different setting whilst administering medication. I don't subscribe to this settling in the cot thing one bit, but that's just me, however what i TOTALLY agree with is what Effie said, you have to be consistant, and your dh changing his mind about now taking him to the spare room with you is that just so your dh can get some sleep since he's given in??

SL - I think this kind of thing is really tricky, as I don't think there is one answer for every child, and even for the same child I think you need to take account of the particular circumstances at the time. I know that my two (DD especially) leaving them to get on with it can mean lots of wailing (1 hour plus), but we have resorted to that sometimes when nothing else seemed to work either (picking up, cuddling etc just kept DC awake and upset rather than helping). From what you say, I think starting nursery might well be a part of it. I know when DS arrived DD was about 19 months old and for a while absolutely needed one of us to sit with her in the room until she fell asleep. Like you describe, she sometimes calmed down, you think she's asleep and then you sneak out only for the wailing to start again. Hard to tell, but my perspective is that DS's arrival unsettled her a bit and she needed the emotional comfort of having us around at bedtime. It took a few months, but eventually she stopped needing us to be there. There was definitely an in between period where it was clear that she quite wanted us to be there, but didn't really need us IYKWM where there was scope for being a bit "tougher" and just leaving her to it, but before that it seemed really unfair to just leave her - it might "just" have been an emotional thing, but she needed us nonetheless. When it came to it, it was quite easy to tell that things had changed. Sorry this is quite long, and doesn't help much in terms of practical advice, but I do think you need to trust your judgment here and maybe accept that DS needs you even if its not illness etc.

cross posted again!!! lol

I think ds is thoroughly confused.

If he is better now, I would be dosing him up on Disprol if he has sore teeth (works a treat for me since ds hates calpol etc via spoon) and then getting your dh to agree to stick to ONE plan. His original might be a good starting point, and then try it for a good couple of nights. From witnessing my brothers kids from an early age, the 2 youngest have suffered badly from the bad habits thing and he is paying the price now.
However, if ds is still obviously ill, I don't think you should implement that sort of thing until he is better

Sorry you are having a rough time, Summer, that sucks. I think you are right in that you don't really know what you are dealing with until DS is fully recovered and is perhaps more settled in his new nursery routine. It sounds like a phase to me (albeit a tiring and difficult one) and like everything is in a state of flux, so my twopenn'orth is that you should just cope as best you can for a few days whilst you all recover, and see where you are then. It does sound like your DH is being a bit unreasonable though - he can't just unanimously announce that he is right and that is that. On the other hand, it's hard to be rational and reasonable in the middle of the night when you are knackered.

I really hope you feel better yourself soon because trying to sort anything out when you are tired and sick is a monumental task.

Righ, must get ready to go to London town.

oh, SL, tricky tricky. you're both sleep deprived and neither of you can think logically and we also had our worst fights at that time of the night - it is so so hard. poor you.

if i had to give advice, i'd do anything you can to get some sleep until you can all think clearer and make sure E isn't ill/teething etc. just take the pressure off yourselves and sod "bad habits" - if they do exist, they can easily be broken, but only if you are both in agreement as how to do it and when a consistent approach is used.

and if you want to do CC, then you are right, gear yourselves up for it, read some books, agree on a plan and STICK TO IT. don't put yourselves through cc unless you really feel you want to do it. we resolutely didn't want to do it, until we realised madam had fallen into a habit of falling asleep in our arms, and every little wake during the night meant she wanted/needed to be in our arms again. that was when we were waking 11 times a night and there were occasions when i/DH held madam for 2.5 hours in the night so i/DH could get some sleep - that way madness lies. for everyone.

i have an acre of baby sleep books from a gazillion different schools of thought - v happy to send them to you if you want them. fb me if wtih your address if you want them. i also have an extra copy of the millpond book - v happy to send that, too. maybe a bit of research will sort the wheat from the chaff in terms of your dh? a friend told me the secret was to find one book you agreed with, bin the others and stick with it.

good luck.

gosh, in teh time it took me to write that post lots of others have posted with a flurry of great advice. good luck, sl.

Just a quick one from me...

SL It might be better to do as a few people have suggested and wait until you are sure DS is fully recovered before trying to change his sleep routine. We're having a similar thing with DD. DD is waking up and we're picking her up and bringing her into our bed just to stop her crying BUT she has a full blown cold/cough and is teething (they are coming through so quickly you can almost see them move). I certainly don't want to have her get into the pattern of waking but at the moment as she is unwell, I don't think CC is anything is appropriate. Obviously once she is better if she is still waking then we'll have to do something else.

I found that when we had the sickness and dia-whatsit bug DH and I were better long before DD. She had horrible watery poo that exploded over all her clothes for about a week. So it makes sense that your DS is still not on top form.

Oh Summer I feel for you. Its so hard to know what to do when you are so tired and just want to sleep. As you may have read I have gone 'cold turkey' with DS as far as his sleeping goes. I literally put him in his cot an let him cry. But to be fair his crying never lasted more than 8 mins, but in that 8 mins I never went in once ( I just sat outside pathetically praying he wouldn't hate me). Anyway for the past week I have not been in to him. Yes he wakes but a couple of minutes of crying and he is back asleep. DH was totally with me on this and here I think is where it gets hard. You both have to be together on the method 100%, and if one of you isn't sure its not going to work as one of you will give in/up.

BUT, do make sure he isn't hungry, in pain, cold, or dirty bum etc. I knew DS had had some Calpol, didn't want milk, and wasn't dirty. I just told him I loved him and shut the door and my gosh it was hard. However, last night after about 40 mins he was still crying (I'd been in to him twice). I could just tell his crying was different and I suspect he was in pain, so I put him in bed with us, and he went off. I think what I'm trying to say is that even though I felt we'd cracked it there will be times when they will go off track.

Sorry if thats a bit rambling, just wanted to share what is so far working for us, and just know that you are by no means alone on this

SL - that's so tough. It is so important to be united in what course of action you need to take. So if you can, sit down with DH and discuss (as rationally as possible) what you think is the best course of action. I do think CC can work well, but I am rubbish at it myself! I've tried and failed. I don't think there is a definite answer and, to be honest, I think go with your instinct. It's a cliche but Mums do generally know best - something I am trying to teach my DH - to much resistance! But you're not on your own - whoever thinks having a baby strengthens your relationship, is a total div in my mind. It probably does eventually if you can weather the storms, but the amount of times I've thought about leaving DH (and probably him about me!) in the last year has been staggering. Especially when sleep-deprived. In my infinite wisdom , I even dreamed of being a single parent. Seriously, I can't believe it now, but there were moments of being totally unable to relate to him or remember why I'd married him in the first place! Luckily it's better now!

DD gone downhill again, unfortunately. No more throwing up, but squits all over the shop. She is a bit hungry, so am giving her banana and plain biscuits - any other tips on what food to give her? She's back in bed and think it could be a sleepy afternoon!

Hi Summer! We have very similar situation here - sleeps through alot of the time (maybe 4 or 5 out of 7 nights...some weeks more, some weeks less), but with teething or other disruptions, needs the extra comfort.

Here are the things I am doing:

1. Keeping track of naptimes, bedtime, times he wakes in the night. Sounds crazy but I got in the habit of jotting these down about a month ago and it is really helpful. You might go through 4 terrible days, but then look back at your notes and realise that he did the same a month ago, but went straight back to sleeping through. Helps keep it in perspective I find! For e.g., last night as I was sitting on the floor by his cot at 3 am (yelled evertime I tried to leave), I was able to remember that this was unusual, that he has slept through every night for the last week, and that he went through a phase of needing me to sit by his cot a few weeks ago but that it passed on its own once the next teeth popped through.

1. Doing as much comforting in his room/cot as possible. So rather than bring him into bed with me, I will put cushions on the floor beside his cot and lie with him there. This way I feel like it is easier to gradually withdraw from his room over the coming days/weeks as he is feeling better.

1. I try not to do something "bad habit-esque" more than 2 or 3 days in a row. So for e.g., we were on holiday a couple of weekends ago and sharing a room. For whatever reason he was waking up every hour and then awake for ages at 3:30 AM...nightmare. So I brought him into bed with me. Same the next night. But I agreed (with myself!) that if he woke on the 3rd night, I would go to the comforting in cot method even if there was yelling (of course then he went back to sleeping through for a week...then the last two nights he has woken again...grrr)

As you can see from the replies, everyone has a different method that works for them. I definitely agree with WG, though, that you need to have a well thought through plan with your DH. Lauching into a controlled crying/cry it out episode at 4 am is likely to just end with everyone in tears and your DS confused about what to expect.