Dec 08 - 9 months in, 9 months out!

[jumpjockey]

Hope you don't mind the dodgy thread name but all our babies are 9 months old now or in the next few weeks

Kayz: sorry you're having a bad day. Remember weight loss is a very long-term thing, it's about your general direction over months, not worrying about having a bad day. Hope getting out improves your mood.

WG: having said never before a year I've been doing some CC with DS2 for the past couple of nights as he has been getting much worse at sleeping in his own bed and sleeping at all. Staying with him when he's in his cot just seems to wind him up, so I tried leaving him to cry (I do go in at intervals and give him a cuddle so not strict CC). And it seems to have worked@ he's in his cot till 5/6am (a miracle) and feeding before bed, once during the night (still happy to do a night feed) and then early morning before we get up. Which I can cope with. We're only on day 2 though so plenty of time for it to mess up!

Much sympathy to those going through bad nights, I feel I'm more unsettled cos I'm having to do stuff to get him back to sleep rather than falling asleep with him in the bed, but I am getting longer stretches of sleep which makes all the difference.

Still enjoying being at work, even the 1 hour train journey is fine and gives me some peace and quiet! I get a horrendously early train in and then leave before 5 which means I get home shortly after 6. I'm lucky work are flexible: it helps that my boss travels on the same line and leaves early too.

Trace: hope L is better and the TT issues resolve themselves.

Re: checks, DS2 still hasn't had his 8 mo check, they call them under 1 year checks here and they#re short staffed so goodness knows when he'll be seen! I do have access to a nice HV so I'm not worrying too much.

Lovely day here today, I was walking along the river as the sun came up and it cast a beautiful golden light over everything .

Invis I studied early Indian history, when they were ruled by Mughals who used Farsi... And I can tell you that research is useful almost every day. Not...

hi all.
Just popping in because I won't be able to get on later.
zj poor dd with her misery - hope she settles better tonight. Does she have teeth yet?
Kayz - did you get out? are you feeling any brighter?
I rang my HV yesterday to talk about sleep but we both really knew there was nothing she could do to help, so I felt a bit of a prat really. Then last night was just shocking. I'm sure her sleep is just getting worse. It seems that she will cry indefinitely...ANyway I got to work and my mentor asked how P's sleep was going so I told her and she was so laid back and matter of fact and just basically said "if she was mine I'd just let her feed" - kind of in a lovely way not a rubbish way. I'm so used to everyone telling me she shouldn't 'need' a feed over night and she's too old to be waking up still and I'm doing something wrong - so for her to say that just made me think (and cry a little ). Would it be better to give up on it all and feed her when she wakes than to spend literally hours every night listening to her cry? I know it's a bad habit she's in, but it's not like she's about to leave home. She's 10 months. I'm in such a pickle. Can't keep up this level of non-sleep and much as we try, we're getting no-where with leaving her to cry. My mentor said relax, take a step back and maybe reassess after Christmas. I just don't know what's best.
Sorry. I must totally bore you all with my sleep woes. Do I officially have the worst sleeper of the thread? Can I ask the BFers - who still feeds through the night?
And where is indith these days?
Right must dash - ballet in 25 mins (Lu, not me! - and yes she wet her pants again today )

cheerio xxx

Oh Trace I want to hug your mentor she sounds just lovely. DS2 is still BF and still feeds through the night. For now both DH and are fine with that. It does mean my sleep is interrupted but I think I've got the advantage of hindsight with DS1. He was exactly the same and is a great sleeper now, in fact exceptional. He happily goes off to sleep by himself and stays asleep. So I don't have any qualms about teaching him bad habits. Also DS2 has slept through the night in the past so I know he can do it. I think his waking and feeding is a combination of teeth and hunger. He litterally crawls a marathon each day so he must be at least thirsty a lot. He leaps at any morsel of food (he spent most of the afternoon at the softplay today crawling around picking up bits of food other kids had dropped) so he must be hungry despite the truckloads of food I give him. If I find it too tiring i'll try to stop this feed to sleep routine (& WG has made me believe that if I need to I can as she has done such an amazing job of it) but for now I'm ok with it. Also I think his teeth bother him more in the night because during the day he is distracted a little from the pain. Also during the day he often crawls around with a soft juggling ball firmly clamped between his teeth I think this makes his gums hurt less.

Invis that sounds brilliant. Does your mum still have family there.

Kayz I understand. I've been a bit annoyed with myself lately with the crap I eat. Before I had the boys I was so disciplined with food but now I will often eat stupid amounts of chocolate and sugary things. However as wise Effie said it is a longterm thing. Were you doing WW, they are really big on doing the relearning thing with nutrition to teach people how to change the way they eat (I think I need that) maybe it's worth having a look at there teaching stuff.

Right gotta go DH is in Den Haag tonight he has three appointments with agents tomorrow to view loads of houses over there. Very exciting. So because I'm a bit shattered from house organising and general crap getting rid of my niece and I are getting a takeaway. I'd thought I'd introduce her to good British food, the national cuisine, a curry!

Hello everyone,

ZJ What a horrible evening. I hope DD went down better tonight. Have you any idea what the matter was?

Trace Your mentor sounds really nice. You have to do what is right for you and your family. Everything is so stressful at the minute perhaps it would lighten the load.

DD usually sleeps through (vvv lucky I know), however if she wakes up I pop into her room and give her a dummy before she wakes up too much. I suppose that is teaching her bad habits but I'd rather just be up for 5 minutes and get more sleep. If it got worse and I needed to be up every hour then I'd have to think again. If a quick BF helps you all then it is a good thing. It is the same with any prop or comfort that helps a baby to sleep.

WG What a lovely evening you had! Have you decided what to do about work?

veggie It will all seem more real when you find a house! Hope you had a good curry.

DD's eye infection got even worse and she is obviously under the weather. She was running a temp yesterday and I was getting really worried as she is usually such a happy soul and she was crying non-stop. It was horrible. She has been a bit better today so hopefully we're over the worst. I don't think I was prepared for how hard it is emotionally when they're ill. I've been a bundle of nerves the last few days.

Early night for me I think. Night all.

oh, trace - you poor thing. it is so hard to know what to do. if feeding will solve it, go ahead. we just realised that madam had got herself into a pattern of needing to be held to sleep.

quick question... madam has gained almost no weight for the past month - this has coincided with her learning to crawl and being more active. she is eating, however, apart from a tummy bug last week where she vommed lots up. should i be worried? she is only just over 8kg and was born christmas day, so 9 months, 3 weeks. any advice? she seems happy and healthy, but was originally on the 50th centile line, but is now nearly 9th. dh and i are both tallish and verge on teh chunkier side of things. thx

Did the HV's seem worried. DS2 is sliding down the centiles and DS1 did so at this age too in fact it took DS1 nearly 6 months to go from 8kg to 9kg. He is a very strong tall 4 year old now so I'm not too worried. Unless she is otherwise unwell or showing other problems with her development I wouldn't be worried. Oh and Happy anniversary, it's nice to have a little happy day for you amongst all the sad bits your having with FIL. How is your dads foot and what's going on with the ladyfriend.

Sorry about your DD's eye JB.

I think we have another tooth about to explode out. DS2 seems to suffer from a low level of discomfort in his mouth most of the time and then all of a sudden it will escalate and he'll have even worse nights. He has woken up twice already and was just so truely sad and sorrowful. I've given him neurofen but I really need to contact my old homeopath and get the strong chamomilla & pulsitilla it always worked a treat with DS1.

Trace - So, so much sympathy. I don't know how you are still standing. You are an amazing woman to be surviving on so little sleep. FWIW, I would use one simple test to decide whether to feed at night again - does it work? Does she go straight back to sleep after a feed and do this 2 or 3 or so times a night? If so, and if it were me, I would just feed and try again in future. If it gets you more sleep, I would do it. If you're talking about being up every hour feeding, then that is crazy. But if it's a couple or even a few night feeds rather than hours of crying, I would be too tempted not to try it. Since I stopped feeding at night I have deployed boob at 4:30/5:00 AM thinking he might be hungry and it doesn't work - he takes it and then stays awake. He is waking for other reasons...teeth, because he is bored, who knows. But he is still BFing at least 4 times during the day, usually 5. And eating loads of solids. There are TONS of BF babies still feeding overnight at this age - I know many mums who are doing this.

Speaking of teeth, Veggie what are the strengths of chamomilla and pulsitilla that worked for you? My DS seems to suffer so badly with his teeth and I hate to be using the sickly pink Calpol for days and weeks on end.

DS2 is awake and seemingly refusing to go back to sleep. He has still got this poorly tummy so we have to change him overnight and I think he thinks it is time for play. I'm so tired so fingers crossed that he'll go to sleep now.

Good morning ladies.

zj Much sympathies on your shocker of an evening, I do hope last night was better.

WG Happy anniversary, sounds like a lovely evening. Re weight gain. I wouldn't have a clue about DS as I never get him weighed. He does appear to have 'slimmed down' a bit (hard to tell given his chunkiness though), which I have put down to his crawling/standing antics. Like veggie says they must crawl a marathon I mean DS never stops moving!!

trace if feeding P overnight helps her, and you, go back to sleep then I would go with it. You need your sleep, and they really are still very little. Who says that they shouldn't need a feed over night? Only little P knows if shes a bit hungry/thirsty. I'd give in go with the flow and try again when you feel more rested.

Well DS has improved on the sleep front for the past two nights. Just a blip? who knows i'm hoping it may continue but I know that it won't. Still a couple of decentish nights sleep has improved my mood no end. However, I do think top 2 teeth are about to cut through which may explain some of the recent misery.

Oh DD awake hopefully back later. DH off today and the weekend which I love.

Morning,

Could I just ask what you think of this please?

Hope everyone is ok.

Kayz that is awful of your HV!!!! FGS your DS is still a baby, why would he need to be drugged for waking once a night!

From a mother of a baby that wakes a lot, I am getting a little bit fed up of everyone telling me DS should be sleping through by now. Well, hes not and who is to say when babies should sleepp through anyway?

Ignore your HV she is clearly mad as a hatter

I did find it quite shocking. I am in 2 minds about reporting her for it but if they will suggest it maybe the NHS won't really care.

I might look at finding something that will help me sleep when DS2 wakes up and I can't get back to sleep.

kayz thats shocking! Are you sure you heard her correctly - I just can't believe that! Wait till Veggie hears about that!

Jolly I love your fb photo! Your dog assumes the exact same position as mine does!

I just got a load of meat delivered (sorry vegetarians) but i'm so excited as it looks like real quality and the same, if not cheaper than Tesco. Massive lamb shanks so I shall report back on their quality!
The dog is convinced it's her dinner as hse often see's her food come to the door with a man in a similar hi-viz jacket!

Daisy great news on the sleep improvment

I certainly heard her correctly. She said it would sedate him so he slept all night.

I'm here Trace Lurking in an "I don't stand a chance at proper catching up" sort of way but hello everyone

Dcs keeping me busy and I am sort of starting to feel a bit more stable and starting to get things together and catch up with a lot of back log for various things and ask for help. In hind sight, way back when dd was tiny and the HV said after the PND questionnaire taht she would keep an eye on me but thought I was jsut knackered, I should probably have disagreed. But hey ho onwards and upwards and all taht jazz.

Having read your post properly trace I think being more relaxed about sleep is a good thing and if feeding gets her back to sleep then do it and, as your mentor says, give it a while and see.

Dd still does not sleep. She doesn't wake every 45 mins any more which is something but she wakes anywhere between every hour and half to 2 and a half hours usually. If I am really lucky she does 3 hours. We had a couple of nights last week when she was sleeping off a cold and her front teeth ahd finally come through and stopped bugginh her that she slept really well, just waking 3 times a night but she is back to normal now She has been a bit tricky to get off to sleep lately too, she only feeds to sleep if she is shattered. Sometimes she goes in her bed, chats and then goes off and sometimes she just cries and dh pats her back until she goes off (if I try she just climbs the sides of her cot to get to me) She does a good nap after lunch though So I am still feeding at least 4 rtimes a night and while desperate I am waiting til a year old to see what happens, she is changing, lately she is more moaning and groaning at night than crying and isn't feeding back to sleep, she just seems to be awake and in need of milk for reassurance . We'll see, at least ds is sleeping well, a few weeks ago I was up about 10 times a night because he was waking too!

Time to cook dinner for the gremlins Take care x

Kiwi - my studies were at least as "useful" as yours

veggie - pretty much everyone in family knew left Iran for the same reasons we did, so no connections there anymore . They are all over the place though, so lots of places to visit.

trace - if you're more comfortable doing it, I would go with the flow. DS has only just stopped feeding at night, maybe a couple of weeks ago and not because I did anything, he just didn't want to anymore. He's even decided he doesn't want his evening feed, if I offer he just turns away, so at the mo he only has a BF in the morning. DD did more or less the same thing. If you think about it, at some point they'll decide they fancy sleep more than food, it just depends on whether you can wait for them to get there on their own! Daisy - glad to hear things are better for yyou on that front

wg - the weight doesn't sound like anything to worry about. DS is about a week older than your DD and weighed in yesterday at about 7.7kg so he is a little monkey, but I just think mine come up small (even though having met me you'll know that I am def not ).

kayz - your HV advice sounds truly shocking. Must say, I have long given up trying to rely on HVs. Even if some might speak sense, it seems almost by accident! And if you are really after advice you have no idea if you are hearing nonsense or sense.

Indith - nice to see you on here.

Have a good weekend all x

Evening all. I am at the PILs and my MIL has got all of DH and his brothers toys from the attic so we are wallowing (well, I am) in Fisher Price nostalgia. He seems to have had all the same toys as me, clearly it was meant to me . I love staying here, it's so relaxing. Am I the only person in the world who prefers staying with her PILs to her own parents??

Trace DD is still BF and still feeds in the night. Usually just once (it took CC to get to that stage but luckily for us she never cried that long so it wasn't too traumatic) but sometimes twice if she's not well/ teething/ generally unhappy. Personally I think if she had put up more resistance and cried longer I would have given in, so I think you should just go with whatever you feel is right.

WG DD has had several periods where she's put on hardly any weight at all. She is also a little shrimp - nearly 10 months and about 17lbs now (is that about 7 1/2 kg? a bit more?) so I know it's hard not to worry but it sounds fine to me. I think sometimes they put on weight smoothly and steadily and sometimes they do it in bursts - DD is definitely towards the latter. Also, I think by now most BF babies are really slowing down in terms of weight gain if you look at the BF baby charts, rather than the red book ones. I've also just been reading a quite interesting book by La Leche on babies/eating/weight gain which makes it clear that by now their growth is really slowing down compared to early months.

Invis That was the populist version of my studies, my thesis title is enough to cure the most hardcore of insomnia

Hi folks, just a quickie from me as it's DP's b'day tomorrow and i haven't wrapped his pressie, written card etc and want to get to bed asap!
Moved on Sat, was pretty tough as T has been ill for 10 days now with this horrible D&V bug that's going around, was in hospital pvernight last weds on IV fluids as he just wasn't keeping anything down, then DP got it...I'm just tired from all this nappy and bedclothes and clothes clanging and being up all night with T so I'm just ignoring the many boxes I'm surrounded by. Great to be in a house though and looking forward to exploring the area when we have a chance!

Sorry for no personals but will be back soon!
Oh, and poisondwarf, I seem to remember you saying you might be in the area soon, please do drop in for a cuppa or summat stronger. Same invite to any of you lovely ladies, naturellement

oh cock my mum gave me a present to give to DP for his b'day before the move and it must be in a box somewhere and I can't find it . It's hear fault really as she shouldn't have given it to me before the move

OMG Kayz that is absolutely shocking, suggesting sedation is bad enough but sedation through antihistamines is terrible!!!!! I would definitely ask to speak to another HV or the head of service about this. I for one would find it upsetting to be told I shoujd sedate my child. I also doubt any GP would prescribe it. Blardy hell!

Now on the night wakings feedings etc I have been musing lately about the fact that DS2 does seem to want the boob for comfort when he is teething. I came up with a theory that maybe BF acts as a pain killer. Either something in the milk itself or in the action of open wide mouthed sucking that is needed for BF that reduces the pain. There is so much that we don't know or understand about BF it could be that it's a little unbuilt painkiller for the munchkins. We are quite highly evolved after all, surely cavebabies got teething pains and needed it soothed. Anyway we were talking about this in our BF group today and my colleague told me she had read a study that suggested that BF acts as an analgesic!!! How cool is that!!! I know it doesn't help the night time wakings but it helps me to know I'm not just pandering to him I'm actually helping his pain. I'll still need coffee first thing but I'll feel more deserving of it now.

Now I need you to all pop Voorburg, Den Haag into your satnavs cos that's were the Netherlands meet up will be. DH is on his way back to us now to tell us about our new house so will fill you in.

Oh gosh cross posted Spot sorry (ishues with Internet at the mo I actually wrote the post an hour ago but it's not always posting when I tell it to). Spot that's all so difficult and hard for you guys when your moving, poor MrT. Do you even know which box the pressie is in? I blame your mum too.

Veggie, you'll be 540 miles away from me!! Just had a look on the maps on my iPod. I'll come and visit if I pass my driving test.

Hi All

Its been weeks since I posted. Since I went back to work I have promised myself I will not go on the PC when I am with the kids and as I can't MN at work I am now rather limited in my opportunities to catch-up. I often lurk from my phone during my commute but I can't post long posts from their as my phone crashes. But I promise I am reading all your news and enjoying hearing how everyone is.

Work is great. I am still really enjoying it. Its tough not seeing the kids much Mon - Thurs but it does mean I really make the most of the times I am with them and I find my capacity for play and my patience is much improved. The kids themselves are doing great. DD1 has started nursery, her first group childcare experience, and she loves it. DD2 is pulling to standing and crawling around. She is also eating for England, seriously, she eats more than her sister. I have dropped the evening BF with DD2 as it wasn't really working with me getting back late from work but I still BF in the morning and we have a lovely cuddle in bed for the first hour of each day.

I am going to change my MN name today. Since Gordon Brown's webchat there are a few people from work are on here and I am now nervous that I have posted too much personal stuff over the years. So I need a new moniker but am rather short of ideas. I will pop on later when I have one.

I am afraid I just can't do personals having missed so much. If I try I will omit something vital. I will try and keep-up from now on.

xxxx

evening all
Nice to hear from you arti - will you remain a vegetable? Looking forward to the new name! Glad work is going so well and you've found a happy balance between work and home.
Veggie how's the packing going? You know I was so reassured by your comments about Breast milk acting as an analgesic. I have been going with the flow at nights - just giving her the boob when she wakes, which is usually now 12 ish, 3 ish and 5.30ish. She settles quite well after so I'm usually awake for 30 mins each time, rather than hour after hour like we were, so I'm not going to change anything yet. Poor P has conjunctivitis so I have to giver her eye drops which she doesn't enjoy!
Lu has had no accidents over the weekend, which is fab, but she has been pretty emotional. On Saturday I asked why she was so sad, and said I missed 'happy Lucy', and she said "it's because P cries at night and I don't hear it but you (ie. me!) do so you're tired and then you don't want to play with me". Excellent. So it's all my fault after all . We've had a nice day today though we lots of fun and smiles (apart from the major melt down which all to do with tomato soup!). She's got a terrible cough too so I think she's feeling run down but she's not the kind of girl to stop and take a rest.
Anyway, must go because I'm very sleepy and still have things to do before i can snuggle into bed.
Hope you're all having good weekends.
xxx