June 08: I see it, I want it, it's mine!

[spongebrainmaternitypants]

Welcome to our new thread .

No worries BDQ, didn't even notice!

Hello. I'm studying and keeping my head down. Shhhhh. don't talk to me until next week.
essie we have the same shoe/walking outside thing, we cracked and bought some at the weekend, as well as a front facing car seat (not entirely convinced at all that C is 9kg - I lied in John Lewis ) We are also in 9-12 months clothes. Does anyone else find Next particularly generous sizes?

don't answer that, I have to study...

Morning everyone,

I'm impressed by all the people on here who manage to fit in working and studying. I find getting the washing up done enough of a challenge.

I'm feeling a bit pissed off at my best friend. The past 2 evenings she has sent me some whingy text messages. She doesn't have any real problems to speak of but is very indecisive and can't decide what job she wants to do, where she wants to live etc. I replied to them trying to be supportive and helpful then last night suggested we meet up sometime soon with one of our other friends. Her reply was that the four of them (2 couples) are going out for dinner tonight and did I want to come? I realise that I pretty much always can't make it when they invite me to these things due to being skint and having J (plus it is normally short notice), but it would be nice to be invited, especially when she is going to get in touch with me just to whinge for the 2 evenings beforehand but not mention anything until prompted into it. I don't think I would be so annoyed if she hadn't been in touch at all then I found out afterwards that they had gone out.
Sorry about that whinge of my own. Don't know why it has annoyed me so much.

Planning to go to Ikea today, hoping it won't be too busy. We need some curtains. What an exciting day!

Hello to all!!!

Abd - I still bf ds and probably will until he about 2 so you are not alone.

Suddenly having three is making me very busy! I enjoyed the summer holiday as the kids really enjoyed each others comapany and I didn't miss the school/after school runs at all. Feel exhausted with all the the rushing around I have to do now they are back.

DD2 is having grommets put in this afternoon which when she had her hearing test three weeks ago I decided I really wanted to be done before the end of this month. We only saw the consultant yesterday and he booked her for today - no time to think about it really but very glad to get it done so she can hear!

Inhaste from work. Biut lots of 'me toos'

I;m still bfing. D is still only about 8.3k (but in big girl car seat as too tall), and she just seems too teeny weeny. Also cracked on shoes for outside, as socks get taken off and she gets too chilly otherwise.

Hey, Going, good to hear from you. Can imagine the school run to be a bit hectic! Urban Angels North opened their books last week so I sent pics of E and T - but they have rejected E! How very dare they . They haven't got back to me about T yet. My sis also sent pics of her little girl but they rejected her too. Oh well!

Ali, I think you def made the right choice with villa 1. Enjoy your break! We were thinking of maybe going for a holiday but have decided just to take a week off and stay at home. The twins are so much happier at home in their normal routine it will actually be more enjoyable for us. They go to sleep at 7pm at home whereas on holiday you just never know so it can actually be a lot harder work.

I think T and E had a virus this week, but T also has a big lump in his gum where a molar is coming through so probably that too. I also think he was not eating because he wants to do it himself. He is actually quite good now. E is still happy for me to spoonfeed her although she will take the spoon and put it in her own mouth.

ktpie, I would be annoyed too. Do your friends have kids? Maybe they just assume you won't be able to make it and don't want you to feel bad for having to say no.

Good luck with the studying Viva. Stop reading this and get back to work.

PP, definitely understand where you are coming from re your father. It is understandable that you are a bit defensive. It's like it's not your fault you are in this situation, it was his 'choice' not to be there iyswim so now he has to work for it.

Ooh, mine keeps going black text to normal to black again

Hi guys, just quickly marking my place cos you've dropped off 'threads I'm on' !

Dog tired at mo cos Alex's sleeping has gone to pot - we're sure it's teething but it's killing both of us . Dh is doing all the night wakings bless him, but I'm worried about him driving on so little sleep.

If anyone has any tips on getting a teething baby through the night then we'd be v grateful .

I assume Calpol and Nurofen are not helping Sponge? Perhaps it is developmental, T has been through similar recently, but not crying, just not really sleeping that well. Sitting in his cot muttering to himself etc. Could A be having too much daytime sleep? I know they go through a developmental 'leap' at 15months so perhaps it is that. How are you dealing with it? Cuddling him till he goes back to sleep or sitting with him or leaving him? I would comfort as far as possible but not try to get into any new (bad) habits! Hope it improves soon [sympathy].

With my two I would comfort but essentially do cc, which brings me on to my next question: Has anyone read Why Love Matters? It is an anti-cc book which says stress levels rise in babies left to cry which damages them and makes them angry and violent in later life! Does she just mean babies who are terribly neglected or does she think any form of cc is bad? I can't believe leaving a baby (over 6m) to cry for 20 mins or an hour can really cause such serious problems later. If so my two are screwed. She also talks about separation, if your child is without you regularly eg when you are at work, this can cause major problems later on. T and E have gone to the CM for the first time today, yesterday I left them with her for an hour and E started to cry just before I went to pick them up. I obviously don't want to think of them being upset and wanting me and not being there, but surely they will get used to the CM and be quite happy. I think this book says no they are not happy, just cos they are not crying doesn't mean they are not upset - they just learn to manage the stress! But so many kids go to childcare and are very happy and grow up fine. Should I read this book or will it just scare me too much . I see my SIL's baby who has never been left to cry and he is just so clingly and wakes up every 3hrs or more in the night, I couldn't cope with a baby like that. My two are so independent, are such happy kids and they sleep great, are they just pretending? I know cc does teach them 'not to cry' - that is the point, but they must know they are so loved so surely that is not damaging.

Goingto - hope the grommets go well.

UDC - definitely getting to shoe weather. I understand why it's good to wait with shoes but if it's not nice and sunny and the floor surface isn't suitable they don't end up getting much practice outside without them.

Neenz - hope the virus' clear up.
My friends don't have kids (although one of them is pregnant) so wouldn't normally worry me too much, I think it was just all the contact from her in the past couple of days but no mention of the meal until I suggested it that annoyed me.

Sponge - wondered where you were! No idea on the teething, we've got off pretty lightly so far here, J still only has 2 teeth, will try and remember any tips others have as hopefully at some point he will get some more.

What happened to Rolf? Didn't she go on holiday ages ago?

Sponge calpol here for teeth. Sure you are already using that though, so sorry I'm not too helpful. Hope it passes soon and you and your DH can get some rest.

Neenz I can answer your question, but I am nervous about doing so in case it is taken the wrong way by anyone. However as a disclaimer, this is not to say that I believe the following, I just happen to have read the theory, and you did ask the question . You mentioned a Stephen Biddulph book a few weeks back. I was in the library after that, and saw his book "Raising Babies" which I borrowed. To paraphrase one of the arguments in his book: when children initially go into nursery their cortisol (a stress hormone) levels go up q dramatically, and they can be upset and clingy . However, after a while they appear to settle in and aren't visibly upset anymore. However their background cortisol levels remain permanently higher than in those children that are cared for by a parent. He concludes that kids in nurseries suffer constant low levels of background stress which in turn may be a factor in the behaviour problems you mentioned. I really don't know what to make of this, as I know lots of lovely kids who are in nursery etc. I am sure that cortisol levels must go up when children cry too, hence the theory about long term damage. P is screwed in this respect too as he normally cries for half an hour when he wakes up at 5am each morning, and again when he wakes up from his afternoon nap.

Neenz, I would avoid parenting books like the plague if I were you - most of them will only make you feel crap! I don't read any and I'm a perfect mum .

Tbh, I would have thought childcare in this country is too new a concept for there to be any real studies as to the effects on small children - when I was a child it was practically unheard of for mums to work so very few adults of my generation had any separation from mum until they went to school. I have one friend who is 40, whose mum was a very high-powered career woman and left all three children with their gran while she returned to work f/t - her and her two sisters are now all SAHMs!! Read into that what you want .

As for cc - we have done it from time to time and again I know it's controversial, but can we really say what the long terms affects are on children who come from a loving, stable home but are left to cry when too young to remember?

Talking of which, yes we have tried painkillers, some cuddling but not much and then cc. He is comforted by cuddles and I'm sure he'd sleep with us but we can't go down that route again now - it would be a disaster with a new baby on the way . It's so hard to know what to do.

ktpie, bless J with only two teeth - hope he gets the rest before new baby arrives!

x-posted Ali!

SB much hated on MN !

In my very small experience (i.e. as a teacher) of behavioural issues I would say that most of them either come from a specific disorder (e.g. ASD) or poor parenting - and poor parents come in all guises, some are SAHMs, some work p/t, some work f/t, some are rich, some are poor, some are bright, some are thick as the proverbial two short planks. I couldn't have told you which ones went to nursery though .

My mum's number one tip on parenting (as mum of four, midwife, health visitor and school nurse)? Stop reading books on it!

I meant which children went to nursery, of course, not which parents!

Well Sponge and Ali, that's what I thought really. Obviously they are upset when you do cc, but it works so quickly and the alternative is so long-winded (and my mum did it to us and we turned out ok ) that I can't believe it is a long-term problem in kids who are brought up in a loving home who get all the love and support and boundaries etc that they need. I have read that Biddulph book and he says best place for kids is with own parents, if not then with other person who loves them eg grandparents, then CM then nursery. Well obviously it is nice for kids to be with the parents all the time but not very practical and there will be lots of delinquent kids soon enough if he is right as almost all go into some form of childcare. So I suspect it is not the major issue he says it is. Also, for example, E cries herself to sleep every night but it is not a distressed cry, it is more of a winding-down cry, so maybe her cortisol levels are not raised? And maybe some kids love nursery or their cm so their cortisol levels are not raised. Who knows .

Interesting that you could not tell which ones went to nursery, Sponge. That is good to hear. The DTs have been happy enough at the CM today anyway so panic over.

Sponge I agree. Across a population you get huge variation in all aspects of a person be it physical or in personality. Some will be down to nature, and some down to nurture. It just isn't meaningful to look at correlations within your own circle of friends and draw any conclusions from that.

I know SB is not popular on MN. Only read it because Neenz had wet my curiosity.

x posted Neenz

X posted before Neenz, I wouldn't worry too much (although that is pretty hard), you can stress about pretty much all aspects of bringing up kids, you know if they are happy or not.

Been to Ikea and had a good rummage in the bargain bin, got a £50 pair of curtains for £5, and a load of throws for £1.50-£2.50 so feeling pleased with myself, I love a bargain! Also got some of their coffee to try, at £1.25 a pack got to be worth a shot (anyone else think that coffee seems to have gone up in price a lot?), plus I got some 49p bars of chocolate, just to test of course.
Just ordered a pushchair for J from Asda for £25 (I don't know if you remember but I was going to get one a couple of months ago but never did), their baby event is on at the moment and has some pretty good bargains if anyone needs anything.

Only problem is I haven't done anything about dinner, hmm, scampi and chips maybe!

Interesting discussion. We haven't used childcare because of the ridiculous cost of it in London. However I am delighted that it has lead to DH being a SAHD because he is getting the chance to be with his son in a way that very few men are able to (although as more and more Dads lose their jobs, that may change). When (if) we go to NZ, I intend to work part time whilst Ry is with family (SIL has a 8m old, so we can share childcare) and DH will go back to FT work. If you'd suggested this to me when I orginally read Oliver James' "They F*ck You Up" whilst planning for pregnancy I would have laughed in your face. I was going back to work at 6 months and having a nanny. Hmm, that didn't work out so well did it!?

Anyway, the conclusion of "They F*ck You Up" was sole carer best (Mum, Dad, Grandparent or dedicated Nanny), then CM then nursery. Up until 18 months anyway. However if the Mother/father is depressed by being at home then that negates any benefit. It is highly likely this is based on the same studies as Biddulph (which I haven't read). However I think that most nurseries now have a key worker for each child which may change the studies a bit.

NB: I used to be an avid reader of the Times Alpha Mummy column and each week there would be a new study saying SAHM was best then Nursery was best. But there is some really good stuff there: timesonline.typepad.com/alphamummy/2006/12/10_things_every.html

Sample quotes:

• Paul Gregg's research found "Employment begun later than eighteen months and part-time work undertaken at any time has no negative effects."
• 'Perfect stay-at-home mothers are producing a generation of useless monsters'
• "The study of 3,400 volunteers over 25 years found that the length of time a child stayed in education and their future earnings was directly linked to the hygiene in their homes." (uh-oh!)

Btw Oliver James seems to think that all parental/childhood problems can be solved by something called the Hoffman process, which costs about £5000 per person. I'm sure the matured child trust funds will cover that if needed. (I am joking!)

Sorry for the lack of personal replies, gotta go though as I am very excited to be going to the first class of a new creative writing course tonight!!

KT - I'd be a bit p'd off with your friend too. Yum to scampi.

Forgot to say that tomorrow I will be telling work that I want to be made redundant !

No reply from Father today.

So P's cortisol levels will be sky high right now as he has just screamed his head off for 50 mins which is completely unlike him. If I pick him up he falls asleep. Put him down and it's a complete drama. Finally all is quiet, but I can hear rustling over the intercom, so think he might still be awake and is just suffering abandonment issues silently

Ktpie meant to say earlier that I have similar uncharitable thoughts about one or two of my friends. I try to surpress them, but they are still there.

PP Good luck both tonight and tomorrow. Interesting what you just posted too.

I'm thinking that I may need to name change as I managed to out myself yesterday....whenever I think of a new name it is already taken.

ktpie I'd be miffed at your friend too.

Viva I'm studying too Although have only written 500 words of 2,500 word assignment so far. Hoping to crack on with a 1000 words tonight It doesn't help that I feel quite ill all of a sudden.

Still no sign of my ebay item... Amber I've used auction sniper a couple of times but what I don't like is that I don't get a notification if the bidding has gone beyond my max bid. I suppose that's a good thing but I seem to be a bit cautious when I put in my max bid, but quite reckless on the closing seconds .

Still got bold font here. Still find it shouty...

ktpie I don't actually get too much studying done, and poor DH does tons to free up time for me to get on with it. Which I promptly waste on the internet

Viva we've now caved in on the shoes and are going to get some this weekend. Although in our defence S has completely given up crawling (in favour of reckless climbing)

Sponge on bad teething nights we often give in and bring him into bed with us... Once he's feeling ok again he usually goes back to his own bed ok, so it's never usually for a night or two at the most.

Neenz - ditch the book!!! I don't read anything on childcare because tbh its not really an option for me to be a SAHM without making huge sacrifices which would affect teh quality of life we could provide for him. While material things aren't important, love alone won't provide the experiences in childhood that I'd like him to have. Also, I don't think I could actually cope with being a SAHM and would resent S for it. Which would be a lot more damaging than 3 days a week at nursery. He's well loved, has a full day of quality time with me on a Monday, with DH on a Tue and for the most part spends quality time with us all weekend.

We have also done CC 'lite' a few times and the only consequence is that's he's learned to settle to sleep. I don't believe that he's learned not to cry, because he DOES cry when he needs us. E.g. those nights recently when he's been upset all through the night and we discover a wee tooth poking through the next morning.

I also genuinely don't understand the CM is better than nursery argument either. The ratio's at nursery are much better than CM (AFAIK) and I'm also stumbling across things like toddlers being traipsed back and forward all day for school pickups etc. I think at the end of the day what works for your own family is the right thing for you. I'd rather be a working mum than a SAHM that stuck their kids in front of cbeebies all day while they did the housework/surfed all day/chatted to their pals/had a few cans of lager while smoking fags watching jeremy kyle. Obviously, I don't think that's what most SAHM's do, just an example of a fictional SAHM who'd be a worse mother than me

Right, on to my next 1000 words!

Right, was going to do a long post but Iestyn is currently crying in his cot - so, er, cortisol levels sky high (me and him! ) and long term damage (again, both cases ). So this may be a quick one... Plus, I'm leaving him overnight for the first time tomorrow night. Does the fact that I'm dreading it make me a better or worse mother? I was back to work when he was 8 months, but he genuinely loves nursery, and is a generally sunny little boy. Oh, and he gets me, sometimes Tim, my Mum and nursery every week. He probably doesn't even know who his sole carer is!!

Sponge sorry to hear about the bad sleeping. Would love to say 'no problems here' but I've just admitted, above... Iestyn's teething. Ktpie 4 here!
And also he tried to walk 3 times today!

BDQ it's pronounced Yes Tin, just like that. How were you saying it? Just out of interest - we get all sorts and don't mind at all! It's probably a version of Justin, Justinian etc, but it's a v. old one - 6th century.

What else? Can't remember. I'm way too cold to type any more. Love the bold though - it's ever so easy to read!

Viva, BDQ - not studying exactly here, but writing an index for my book [horrendously dull emoticon] and I've reached j. But it's a lawbook, and that's where justice, judge, judgement etc is!

Ali where did you out yourself? Here? I didn't notice. I'm rubbish at thinking up names.

PP, good luck with the request for redundancy, and with all stuff related to your father.

Maybe there's something cosmic going on with the LOs - after our vast improvement to bedtimes following CC, last night and tonight have been a nightmare. Last night B screamed for an hour until I gave up, brought him into the living room, and he fell asleep immediately. Which ruled out teething pain/post MMR symptoms. Tonight I gave him prophylactic Calpol, he went down as usual, but within five minutes, the screaming started. I've been in and out since 7.30, and he's just fallen asleep (9pm).

I don't know if he's suddenly become very clingy - great timing! When I took him to nursery yesterday, I left the room, and he became hysterical. After 15 minutes, we gave up (he was also sleepy), so I took him away, and we went back in the afternoon. I stayed in the room with him, and he was fine, but he started whining if he thought I was getting up to go.

Today, our babysitter came to look after him, and again, he was hysterical after I left

BDQ - I like what you've said about the childcare stuff. Makes sense. Good luck with the next 1000 words.

I don't like bold type.

Essie, are you off anywhere nice tomorrow [nosey]

Wave to everyone else. I have been reading and keeping up, but my cortisol levels must be soaring now, and I'm feeling a bit rung out. Going to try and bring them down with a nice glass of red. Hmmm, maybe that would work for B....