Dec 08 mums - embuggerance to it all - sleep or no sleep we love our babes

[waitinggirl]

i hope people don't mind, i took the bull by the horns and did it. title a bit naff, but more important the thread exists rather than search for a better title. hope i haven't stolen anyone's thunder...

Row my DS2 was born 13th dec and is the only one born on that day. We did have a list kicking around, where is Bisou when you need her? Also calpol takes well over an hour to hit full efficacy and ibuprofen about 30 mins. I use pulsitilla & chamomilla for short term remedies as they work within minutes and help their mood as well as the pain. Have a look in boots or holland and barratt for them.
Well look out me-fest. This is pretty silly to get upset about but around lunchtime I rang a number I had taken down of a village hall that I could hire for a couple of hours in August for DS1's birthday party. It's nice because it's right on a park so if it's sunny the kids could go outside and has a little wood next to it so perfect for a treasure hunt. An elderly sounding WI type lady answered the phone and seemed quite pleasant if a little standoffish. But they have been because I started the conversation by saying I had rung a week ago but no one had called me back. She asked my name and I told her and then spelt and to be fair it is difficult to pronounce but she kept pronouncing it as if she wasn't listening to me and thought of was an odd name, but whatever. Anyway I was talking about what days I wanted and she was saying what was available. It turned our the day I wanted there is a annual jumble sale and the day after there was a unconfirmed booking. She was pretty keen to fit us in as I think they depend on bookings like this for funds to run the place. During all this DS1 who was building a pirate ship on the couch made some noises to do with his imaginary play and I guess was little loud but not often and def not distruptive and hey it's our house. She made a comment about the noise and I said yes that's one have the birthday you know how they are at this age. She said if it was her daughter she wouldn't be making all that racket. I ignored the comment and continued on with organising the booking when DS2 who had been pulling himself up to try to see DS1's couch pirate ship suddenly fell backwards and let out a scream. This she also commented on and I said well you know when they are learning to to things they inevitably get some bumps and I said what he had done. We tried to continue but DS2 was quite upset I said I might have to call her back after I settled him. She then got quite rude and said he needed discipline! And ranted on again about her daughter and childrens these days. I couldn't help myself and I said, of course things are different now these days we actually cuddle our babies when they want us. She said children need discipline (bearing in mind she is making a judgement on my childrens discipline on the phone) so I said so tell me how & why would you discipline a child who cries because it has fallen over. She then claimed to not have known he had fallen over, even though I had told her couple of times why he was crying. She then continued to go on about her daughter (who is probably now 60 and a bullied reck) so I said I didn't want to make a booking because our 4 year olds party would clearly not be to her liking and way too rawdy. She suddenly back tracked and yabbered on about how she didn't know the baby had fallen but I just said I didn't like her ends judgemental comments even before he had fallen and didn't want to deal with her and said goodbye. I was so riled by the way she spoke to me. To make things worse at the same time DH was on the phone to the big company boss who is refusing to let him take voluntary redundancy because they need him for the new team they are setting up. He doesn't want to stay there but he has basically said he has to resign to leave. It means he doesnt get any compensation from them completely changing his job description. He came down after his phone call and I was in tears after my phone call.

I am also feeling really trapped and stressed as DS2 is really trying to climb upwards anywhere and everywhere but is just to little to sustain any standing up long holding the couch so goes flying backwards and hits his head so screams. Just trying to go upstairs to the toilet is hard. We have a playpen (nicknamed the rage cage after the incredible hulk) but our livingroom is so small here it's not really workable. So I have to carry him up with me everytime I go upstairs even just to find the wipes. I know it sounds ungrateful to resent his development but I just feel it's too early to be having to watch him so much I want him to be a passive lay about for a while longer...sorry that's sounds horrible and not sure what you will think of me but I need to express it.

veggie at thatlady, an old lady came up to us once when we had DD in the carrier and just said straight out 'in my opinion babies should be in prams, not fancy strapping things', I blathered on something about the pram having a puncture (which it did that day) but so wish I'd just replied with 'in my opinion you shouldn't be a rude old bag'. Rudeness is my biggest bugbear so well done to you for standing your ground - I'm sure you'll find another great venue for DS's birthday, but it sounds like that place is less likely to get another booking so its their loss. And on the development, my Mum actually used to push me over (gently I hope) to delay my walking, which I always thought was incredibly cruel of her but now I totally understand where she was coming from - so you're not the first to feel trapped by your developing baby, and you won't be the last. Do you have any chocolate in? You deserve some this evening!

Row I have a copy of Bisou's famous list and we have one other boxing day baby - hattyyellow's DD was born that day. She still pops on from time to time, but as she has two older DD's as well (twins) her hands are quite full!

Thanks ZJ giggling a little at your mum pushing you over, I wonder if it made you more determined. I did have chocolate, I had my usual butterscotch G&B delivered with the groceries yesterday and was quite proud that I hadn't eaten it by this morning. I was saving it for after dinner tonight to share with DH after all his work crap but I ate all but 4 little bits and that's only cos DS1 guilted me into giving him a bit and then I managed to halt my progress through the block to save some for DH.

Continuing with rude oldies, my friend and were walking down bethnal green road with our baby DS1's on a chilly winters day. Her DS refused to wear mittens and would kick off so she gave up on them. An old man saw her DS with his naked hands flailing above his blanket (he refused to keep them under) and pointed right into his pram and said 'tha' chil' nees' miiens'' we were so shocked neither of us could repond because the old geezer was using a lit cigarette to point out my friends neglect!! He wandered off with us still open mouthed that the old dude had put a smoking cigarette so close to a tiny babys face.

Veggie: have you got a travel cot? Would that help for bunging DS2 in? We have one of those inflatable ring nests (a loan) and it's pretty good tho DS2 keep getting himself stuck so not ideal for long periods. I am not looking forward to DS2 being mobile, it's hard enough running round after DS1! Tho he still isn't well, poor chap (DS1 that is), despite an afternoon of snoozing and watching Fireman Sam. DS2 is grumpy as well, hopefully the tooth rather than him getting ill too. That woman was very rude, I'm sure you can find a great venue that isn't policed by an old bag. Who would think it a good idea to give a complete stranger parenting advice over the phone?

Invisible: great to see you back

Re dates, DS2 was born on New Year's Day, Oli's DD was a couple of days later I think - and I don;t think there was anyone after that. Verso and LadyT's babies are among the oldest as I think they were both end of November. So we're pretty spread out

Oh and I overestimated DS's weight - got him weighed at the clinic at bang on 6 mo and he was 20 lbs 8. He's jumped up to the 91st centile which must be down to him gobbling down anything within reach!

veggie - that's outrageous!! (Both stories actually). Your poor DH as well - we had that kind of situation a few years back where DH was desperate to get made redundant and he kept getting missed off in various rounds and was refused voluntary. He eventually did manage to badger them to give him voluntary somehow. I guess its flattering that they are so indespensible, but really thoroughly rubbish. In any case I'm no expert on these things, but if his old role is no longer on offer and they insist he should do a completely different role, that might be constructive dismissal in any case...

Just nipping in as it's that hectic time of night!

Just wanted to say good luck for tonight Indith - what did you win?

Veggie - sorry you have had a mauling from an old dear. She has got nothing better to do than carp. Don't let it get under your skin. It sounds very difficult for your DH, poor bloke.

Zoe - I am so glad you are feeling better...good to see you back in the land of the living!

Row - my DD was born on Nov 25 as was Verso's. And DaisyD's DS snuck in the day before, I think! Oli's was the last on the thread and Turnip's was quite late on too. Who was Christmas Day - was it Summer, WG and Bisou?

Must dash!

Veggie good on you for telling that silly lady what you thought. I can't believe she would be so rude - and stupid!
I had a funny moment today when an old-ish lady from across the road came over to me while I was gardening with dd2 in the buggy. She looked at her and said "I can't believe that's the little baby you had at Christmas - babies grow up so much more quickly these days" (?!!) she went on about how she had to stay in hospital for 10 days when she'd had hers, and how she was told to swaddle the baby which hindered their development (!) and that she thinks it's great how today's babies are doing so much!! All she was doing was sitting in a buggy playing with a toothbrush (her favourite toy!) - how advanced!
I remember taking Lucy swimming when she was a few months old and a lady there said "ooh isn't she long for her age" - which I found baffling and amusing considering she had no idea how old she was! And Lucy was in fact far from long as she was so prem!
DH is watching Tour de France and keeps updating me and filling me in on 'interesting' bits - " look at the way that group has been split because of the wind from the right" - I just nod and "mmmmm" a lot because it seems a little rude to say I could not find the cycling any less interesting!
ZJ - loved your romantic scene!
Invisible that's very reassuring that your dd just weaned herself off the night feeds.
Veggie - you're not sure what we will think of you?!! I think it's safe to say we all think you're Wondermum! You seem to have such energy and enthusiasm and inspiration in your parenting - and yet you are so real about the hard stuff. I'm not surprised you're feeling trapped - don't feel bad about it. I often get a sinking feeling when P wakes up from her nap! I think we just enjoy our freedom and having someone so dependent and always there is exhausting.

Row - P was born on 11th December and I think babyKayz was very close.

Trace is right. D was born on the 12th, his due date and he weighed a wopping 10lb 5oz!!! I actually still can't believe how much he weighed. I also think he was one of four that was born on his due date. I love those stats that Zoe did. Does anyone have them saved?

hello hello hello. thanking you all so much for your kind and reassuring words. i can't quite believe how much this group means to me - such a wonderful place to splurge on feelings and thoughts and experiences with such supportive people.

went swimming today (after last night's maelstrom) where she seemed perky enough - then she napped on and off all day (including a mammoth 2 hour stretch on me - wonderful for writing long neglected emails). she also did a mahoosive vom which kept on coming - it didn't seem to bother her, but it seemed like an entire week load of feed came out. i was, unfortunately walking in the rain iwht her in the buggy, so i couldn't clean her up much. then she fell asleep, so i let the poor girl sleep in her own vom until she woke up (with more vom, bright yellow this time, would you believe it?). all this vom makes me think she is actually fighting a bug, so that probably had something to do with the past bad nights. aside from vomming and being difficult at night, she is pretty much her usual smiling self, so reasons to be cheerful.

this evening she giggled her head off at dh dancing like a lunatic, and found a hilarious laugh in her bathtime fun which we have never heard before. it really makes up for the shit. i have got her off to sleep with relatively little fuss (getting her off isn't the hard part, though). we await the night with interest, and renewed faith in her and ourselves. dh rang me in teh middle of the day to say he has decided to think positively about things - regardless. he made a list of what was important in his life, and his list started with "i love my wife, i love my daughter and i don't need anything else". i knew there was a reason i married him.

thank you all for your thoughts - i'm sure they are helping.

can't remember much from other people, but vg - ooooh, that woman!!! you did well! and hello invisible - i remember you live in east finchley - not too far from me in bounds green.

and yes, bisou, sl and i all have the christmas day babies - all emergency cs, too. weird.

thank you

WG I'm very sorry to hear you have sleeping problems again. As others have said, this will pass and I doubt its anything you are doing, DS1 and DS2 are so different and I honestly havent handled it any differently.

I used to want to throw DS1 out the window too. Just to get him to be quiet for a bit. One of my friends also said she wanted to push her baby into a canal and go home and go to bed when she was out on a walk once too. I think these are normal feelings if not nice ones - we have to have some outlet and way to cope with the constant demands, we wouldnt be human otherwise. The fantasy at 4am is the safe way.

I have nothing else to add to what anyone else has said except to say that is it worth getting her checked out at the GP ? I only say this because DS1 went through a phase of very similar sleeping to what you describe once and in desparation I went to the doctor and it turned out he had an ear infection and the doc reckoned its unpleasant for them to be lying down when they have them, and they feel pretty rotten, hence the frequent wakings and general unhappiness at night, as THEY cant sleep even though they want to. DS1 had ear infections quite regularly.

I feel for you (and Veggie) with home stresses too. We have also had those with bereavements and DHs work stresses, its very hard. Dont be too hard on yourselves, our children are too young to remember if some days we are merely coping, and arent the parents we would like to be. The only way I have taken to deal with it is to take 30 mins for myself every so often and also try to be nice to DH, as sadly he gets the brunt of any anger/resentment or stress I am feeling and vice versa. When W had one of his nursery visits I was able to sit in the grounds of my work for an hour and not have to do anything. This was when I felt able to think about and shed some tears for the sad things that have happened recently. It really feels like there was no time until then. I hope that you can get into a bath, get out for a walk and just get some clear headspace.

TBH when DS1 was 6-7 months old I could not believe anyone would want to do it again, I was having such a bad time, and part of the reason I had DSs as close as I could was to get it all over with. It will get better and in the end it didnt put me off.

Blumming heck, long post. I just really feel for you WG as I remember how that felt, I really do. Every weekend I was desparate for just a bit of my old life back.

Hi to everyone else ! Thanks for your formual tips, I am going to try a variety of cartons next week, given he has never refused any concoction I have given him I'm sure I can find something he will drink...

On the developmental side, DS2 can roll, but doesnt much. He can sit for quite a few mins on his own, but has to be watched as he may fall over. He doesnt crawl, pull himself up on things, or anything like that. He has bumpy gums and no teeth. HBut he is a lovely laidback dude Most of the time he is fighting off his loving but a bit heavy handed big brother..

Veggie My friend has a theory about rude old people. She reckons they are jealous because we have better lives than them and more opportunities. This may well be the case, but they should stick to being rude in their head, like I do

WG X posted, but think lots of vomming can also be caused by ear infection, but I'd have to check as fortunately DS1 hasnt had one for ages. And my head is full of shopping lists, work related stuff and sleep deprived fug at the moment.

thanks NJAN I imagine her as a sad grumpy old bag and I'm the 'young' happy mum she wishes she was.

WG it would be a good idea to get ears checks at GP if it isn't that it could be a UTI, sometimes unexplained vomming can be that, she may be crying when she wees.

Hey thanks for all your kind helpful words I'm feeling better now though am a little surprised by how much it upset me, might be premenstrual or just a bit stressed. Trace your just lovely.

NJAN - my dh mentioned it might be ears just this evening. have an appt with the doctor tomorrow morning. oh, all of you - trace, too - thank you thank you.

she has settled tonight with not a huge amount of fuss - she grizzled at 10, but silence since then. hurrah for now. let's see what happens tonight.

watching state of play - wow, it is fanastic - the series, that is, not the film (saw the film a couple of months ago). surprised to find a friend of mine plays the hitman in it. gosh, he's scary!

good night, all, and good nights for all. fingers crossed.

Yet again I'm failing to go to sleep. Useless.

Wg am so glad you feel better this evening. I remember having weeks like that with DS. As everyone says it's perfectly normal to feel as you did with DD. I used to make myself feel dreadful by knowing that if someone offered to take DS away and make my life back to how it was I'd bite their arm off. I now can't believe I ever felt like that - it's really hard to write as I love him so much and spend far too much time worrying that something might happen to him.

If I were you I wouldn't worry too much about feeding to sleep either - I know that's probably bad advice according to sleep gurus. But you won't be doing it for ever. I really miss feeding DD to sleep.

Anyway. Am actually much cheerier than this all sounds. I braved a trip to the Natural History Museum today with the 2 of them and DS loved it. Absolutely loved it. Even though we had to queue for 20 minutes to get in. I've hardly ever seen him so excited. Only problem is it slightly undid my reassurance that dinosaurs don't exist. Also he is already correcting me on my mis-identification of them. It's as bad as hucking Thomas (with thanks to LadyT).

Veggie grrr to that woman. How unpleasant. Just console yourself with the knowledge that even when you are old you won't be anything like that (imagines veggie as old woman surrounded by young mothers listening to her wisdom).

ZJ am glad you're feeling better. And at your romance...

Effie DD is one of the oldest - born on 29th November. She can move about - not proper crawling - but can't sit up on her own and no teeth. All so different. DS has only just - at 2.5 - learnt to wave and he 'should' have done that aeons ago. In all other respects he's genius obviously . Can see why you worry though - similarly as DD probably had meningitis I'm much more concerned about milestones. Stress for nothing though as it's not like you can change it.

Probably possible to re-order that into coherent English. But am too tired, sorry.

Night all.

Morning,

Ds2 woke up at half 5 so I had to get up. Tried to make DH get up but I was wide awake.

WG Hope you had a better night.

Zoe Glad you are better. I did have a giggle at the romance at your house!!

Lal I am very of your trip to the Natural History Museum. I love it there but haven't been for years!!

Veggie That lady(I use the word lightly) is a loon!! How on earth do you discipline a nearly 7 month old anyway?? On a lighter note did you here about Van Persie???

Shameless plug here but if anyone fancies a whole pig for a spit roast then please visit my Mum's website She keeps pigs(which are so cute) and they have now set up a business. Extremely free range piggies!!

Hope everyone is well.

Morning all, quick one from me, just wanted to add my thoughts to those for WG to those who've already expressed them so eloquently.
I could have written your post a few days ago when T was waking all night, not napping in the day, being grumpy for me and then smiling the moment anyone else came near him. Assumed teeth. Still no goddamn pegs. But it's just the total "am I ever going to sleep again and will this person stop crying have I damaged him by sometimes ignoring his cries he's already got the genetic predisposition who am I where have I gone I never thought it would be like this will someone please take him away" awfulness. Sorry, totally incoherent.
Just yesterday DP asked me "do you enjoy having him around, do you like being with him"? . I couldn't believe he'd said that but he said all i ever do is complain about how tired I am, how much of a drudge I'm feeling like etc etc. And I couldn't explain how it's all to do with sleep deprivation and finding a new identity and the sheer relentlessness of it all, but that I wouldn't change him being here for anything.
sorry ramble, we're off to my mum's today, am hoping t lets me leave him with her for more than a second..

oh, and am on your behalf veg, i hope she gets fired for turning away business, i wouldn't blame you for wanting to tell all the other mum in the area about it....

morning....
Veggie I'm surprised you didn't march down to have the conversation with that woman in person! How bloody rude... Bummer about your dh'd job situation, but he must be very good at what he does so that's a nice feeling!

Lal, we went to the Natural History Museum when ds was 1 week old! I remember being obsessed with where the baby change facilities were, since i'd never had to pay attention to these things before! Then my nieces were trying to get me to stand on the scales and compare my weight with an elephants - not ideal a week after giving birth!

WG, glad you are feeling a little better now...

I haven't had ds weighed at the clinic for literally months, however I plonked him on the bathroom scales yesterday which are hugely inaccurate at low weights or any weights for that matter, but he was 8.2kg. He was born on Dec 10th and has no teeths yet, still doesn't sit up for long on his own, but has perfected the art of blowing raspberries at 6am

Where's Kim these days? Pixsis? And remember Beans from way back? Wonder if she ever lurks....

and Katie is very quiet these days - you lot lurking still I hope?

I just looked back over my really old posts and it's funny there is still a few of us that are regulars on here - from way back. it's a really strong little group of core regulars isn't it

Q for P&T users.... which way around does the cocoon go? (ds too big now but just wondering) the box shows head facing the front but everyone says the other way as then you can see the baby's head? Also, it has little clips on the side but doesn't seem to attach anywhere on the buggy? Someone said the clips are only if you have the "Vibe" model? I didn't get instructions, and also having a battle with folding it up and down but usually get there after pressing many different buttons!

I always had it so DS2's head was at the end so I could see him. On ours the cocoon has bits of velcro that go into some hoops on the pushchair. But I never used them.

Right I am offically mad!! But I'm going to book a holiday for next July so I have to be able to drive!!