Dec 08 mums - embuggerance to it all - sleep or no sleep we love our babes

[waitinggirl]

i hope people don't mind, i took the bull by the horns and did it. title a bit naff, but more important the thread exists rather than search for a better title. hope i haven't stolen anyone's thunder...

Somebody that has lived in this country longer than I have, talk to me about the show Heartbeat. Why oh why does DS wake at 5:30 and drive me to watch terrible early morning TV?!

LadyT - Your job sounds fascinating. Maybe you can become the Jerry Maguire of the literary world?!

PMK - Jealous of your late bedtime. I used to be a night owl before the arrival of you know who.

Morning,

MOM Heartbeat is great It was filmed just up the road here and we get coaches and coaches of old people coming to see where it was filmed!! They ask where Aidensfield is then look puzzled when you tell them it doesn't exist.

LadyT Really sorry about everything. I really hope it all gets sorted out soon. Your employer seems awful especially after working there for 12 years!!

Thank you for all the nice comments about the cake.

Hope you are all ok this morning!

LadyT that is awful and such a blow to the self-confidence just as you were thinking about going back. As everyone else has said, I'm sure you would have a case if you wanted to press it but I can see that you don't want to do that now - do keep records though (I'm sure you will) in case things escalate after you return and you need to take action. You are a splendid and resourceful woman and I'm sure you will get through this but you shouldn't have to

Btw DH is on a jolly with a load of marketing people so keep an eye out for a chap in a blue serge jacket with a haunted look in the eyes

ZJ: hope you feel better soon

Trace: yay on the application! Fingers crossed...

Re the thread probs, do any of you have filter settings that balk at a little mild profanity? It's the only thing I can think that's changed.

LadyT (Unethical warning) Could you go freelance and take some of your clients with you ?

Hope things feel more positive today. Gotta go...

Right, I'm feeling a bit better now.... two coffee's later! Yep Veg can def pick up something for you in Italy, you will have to give me more detail closer to the time, otherwise i'll forget! I think he said it is in October...
Lady also sorry about the house. it's always disapointing. I remember a house we were about to put an offer on and desperately wanted. We even celebrated, and then a developer came along and snapped it up the next day. I was so upset, however I think there was a reason - as with your situation - there is a reason you didn't get that house. Something will be around the corner.
Mom yeah even when I'm dead tired, I still can't get to sleep earl and have to watch telly in bed to get sleepy. The exception was when he was waking in the first 6 weeks and all that.
Well I have to get to the bank and sign a decleration today now that the fraudulent charges have gone through and just looking at my account now, and the flippin curry the other night has double charged us! Jeez, when it rains it pours! It was a lovely curry though, so I will let the Bombay Bike Co. off!

Jerry Maguire

What a shame I don't have a Cuba Gooding Jnr or even a Renee Zellweger. Before I went on mat leave one of my clients wrote to me and told me I was solely responsible for him still having a decent career at his (considerable) age - but I know even he would baulk at leaving a prestigious agency with clout just by their name, and throwing his lot in with a part time woman at home in Oxfordshire with a baby and no proper office. So taking clients is not an option.

I barely slept but on another note, if DD goes to a nursery or childminder for (say) two full days a week I am genuinely worried it will upset her. Will those who work and are well used to this childcare lark reassure me that it's fine and I am worrying over naught? DP said this morning that he thinks it's 'cruel' but that 'we have no option'. Which has hardly helped. Right, must get ready for Henley. A friend is looking after DD for me.

LadyT Sorry thats not an option. I knew that wouldnt sit well anyway, but I dont know about you, I hate feeling impotent about such bad treatment !

My children both go to nursery now and it does feel wrong some days but it does not do them any harm, honest. Put it this way, the people that do it are the childcare experts and they know what they are doing, they have seen it all loads of times, and I found discussing my childrens development with my keyworker very rewarding as it was someone experienced, that care, and knew my child really well. Yes, they miss out on 1-1 time with you - but they gain - experiences they may not get at home, for example, messy play, loud play, mixing with other children, and just a change of scenery, and also different food.

DS1 is very confident and chatty with other adults and children and I dont think he would be if he had been at home with me as he is quite a sensitive boy.
DS2 has settled into nursery really easily, and seems to find it very exciting. When I go to feed him I find it hard to get him to pay attention to me as there is so much going on and he just wants be nosey....

The way I see it, your children will have to spend most of their life out of your jurisdiction, so getting used to other people is a good thing. This is earlier than I'd like really but I dont think it does them any harm. Though I'm sure you are aware of my own conflicts on the subject, anyway I dont know anyone who has found childcare easy, and I dont think it gets much easier when they go to school !

BTW, I dont think its cruel. My nursery has "open door " policy and I have spent hours and hours there over the last three weeks. Some children struggle a bit to settle in when they first start, but most of the time all I see is happy children enjoying themselves.

Some days I feel they do a much better job there than I do, definitly if I am tired and ratty

Right have gotta go now !

BTW, I dont think its cruel. My nursery has "open door " policy and I have spent hours and hours there over the last three weeks. Some children struggle a bit to settle in when they first start, but most of the time all I see is happy children enjoying themselves.

Some days I feel they do a much better job there than I do, definitly if I am tired and ratty

Right have gotta go now !

Well, though a very fine man in lots of ways, tact is not my DP's strong point. Thanks NJAN

Lady enjoy Henley.... I am Hope you can take your mind off all this and have some posh cheerfulness

Oh Lady it's all been said this is just terrible and way too much to lump on you. I wish I could come over make you a coffee and talk about trivial gossip to take your mind of all this. Your DP is I guess honest but I think in this case could have maybe held back on that opinion unless he had another option. As NJAN said childcare is never easy I lasted 4 months, but I'm wondering is DP works from home could you get a time share nanny in you area so DD could be at home? However really 2 days is nothing I think I could have even handled 2 days, and you are much stronger than me. Also it doesn't hurt them all that rediculous contradictory research out there has simply been done or misrepresented by the media to make mothers feel guilty about their unique role in a childs life and therefore not enjoy and feel proud of mothering. (sorry should have warned of crazy consiracy theorist rant), DD has the personality she has because of who she, is how she adapts to changes in her life will be dependant on her personality. Only if she is unloved and emotionally and physically abused will she be effected. Think about how much you love her, how could she possibly be badly harmed with that much love.

I know this probably doesn't make any of your situation better but DD is the good thing that is going on in your life right now (and DP of course) don't let that cause you stress also.

Oh and add some more weights to the basket I need some strength training.

Gotta go going to one of DS1's school friends house for lunch. This school is becoming my social life at the moment.

LadyT i too am furious on your behalf, how utterly low of your employers to try and retract what they initially said, it's worse than if they'd said no from the off. And i totally empathise about the childcare situation, I don't know what the answer is, and am obv not speaking from experience, but from what I've heard the issue is less whether nursery/CM is a bad thing, more about the quality of the place/person. Could you maybe go on a few visits and see what you think of what's available near you? At least then you would have a chance to see what your instinct tells you...NJAN and Veg seem to have some very wise advice.

And would second whoever brought Spiggy"s name up as someone who could maybe give you some pointers on the employment front?

Thanks all for your kind words (and indeed on my behalf] about the tongue tie, I am in two minds about whether to kick up a fuss as it wold be very hard to prove anything. Am I in my rights to ask to see the notes that were taken when we went in to have the first hospital stay to see if anyone actually checked for tongue tie?

How are things on the sleep front Arti? Am glad you have a bit more energy and enjoyed your b'day. I don't suppose you would be able to describe the technique Mrs Sleep used so those of us who are of your new sleeping babe could give it a try? Or maybe it's something that's adapted for the individual child. Am back to dummying in the nights and walking round the park in the days as I chose a bad time to try PuPd but would like to properly try a new technique as I feel I'm not doing anyone any favours by all this "helping" to sleep.

Effie and POison, just to let you know I've not forgotten about the visit (if you'll still have me) and will try and get a date sorted again v soon.

ZJ you sound ever so poorly. Hope you go get something helpful if you back to the GP. Are they thinking it is boob related or was that a red herring? And I hope your dh is not making too many 'helpful' meals for you
Ladyt. so sorry. that is actually hard to believe as it is so unreasonable. On the childcare front - I can definitely reassure you . Lucy started nursery at 9 months old and left at Christmas to start school. She did 3 days a week for that time and I NEVER had a complaint about the nursery, the staff, the care or anything. She never cried when I left her (although that's perhaps a personality thing rather than anything the nursery did?) and when she was old enough to articulate these things she never said she didn't want to go. She is confident and sociable and is at the higher end of her class with her writing and number work. She concentrates well and is good at playing with other children, sharing, waiting her turn etc. I know this sounds like her 'record of achievement' - and she is also bossy, stubborn, forgets her manners, doesn't like getting her own way, blah blah blah like any normal child - but I do put a lot of her 'life skills' down to the environment she was in. We viewed 5 nurseries and had a definite gut instinct about which one to choose. Phoebe is due to start at the same nursery in September when I go back to work, which I clearly would not have done if it had not been wonderful. I didn't find it easy to leave Lucy at first and to accept the fact that there are hours in her day about which I know very little, but I think it's all a process - those who stay with their parents for those first years have different advantages - but they will all have to start school at some point and if that is your child's first experience of leaving you and you surrendering some of your 'control' and knowledge of their day that has its own challenges. I think whatever childcare you choose at whatever age is part of them growing up. Sorry for the waffle . Did it sound positive enough?!!! My friend uses a child minder and would sing her praises as it works brilliantly for them. I think as others have said if you start to look into options you may find one solution is much more appealing and more suited to you and dd.

just re-read that first sentence - what? It sounds like a really bad translation

PMSL at Kayz the spiritual one Sling count-5 plus several pashminas dd spent hours snuggled in pouch style as a newborn. Jars of lentils in kitchen-2 (plus dried chickpeas, butterbeans and various others). Time spent bf so far collectively- 20 months with intention to bf as long as dd still wants it. Cloth nappies? Check. I'm only just learning to crochet though so I'm not sure I could weave much with my lentils

zj hope you feel better soon

arti the mum friends sound great. I really miss having a social life of any description. Shall have to make an effort when dd sleeps enough for me to be awake past 8pm as it sounded like fun.

Lady T for house and for job.

Dd has slept for a grand total of 50 mins today spread over 2 naps. Add this to getting up at 5.45 and I have one tired girl but she just won't go down and of course if she gets wound up trying to go for a nap she gets even more hot and sticky and so won't sleep

Just quickly popping on at lunch while at work so can't do proper reply. Lady T Will be back this evening with more info this type of situation which might help you decide if you do want to push this further.

Hello everyone,

A tip I read ages ago for cooling down a hot house is to open your attic hatch (if you have one!). It helps the hot air escape better.

zoe Poor you, blacking out must have been so scary. Can your in-laws take you to the GP or take DD for an hour so you can have some rest? Try not to pile on the woolies, even though you feel cold, you really aren't. You'll make yourself horribly dehydrated.

spot If you have the energy, complain. It is dreadful that you had problems and TT wasn't checked for properly.

ladyT What a horrible few days. Firstly, on the house, I agree with arti, a better one will come along. I really believe that.

Re the job. That is just dreadful, I can't believe that they would be so cruel as to go back on an agreement.

Finally, on the nursery issue, I am worried about putting DD in nursery for two days a week too, but know deep down that she'll be fine. Trace your post is really reassuring!

indith DD was doing the same when I was trying to get her to nap yesterday. It's so frustrating.

Oh and someone was saying about how their DC wasn't really doing anything with finger foods apart from waving them around (I've forgotton who it was, sorry). The BLW book says that it takes some babies months to get the idea of putting the food in their mouths, so I wouldn't worry. One day they will surprise you! I think DD has taken to it well as she has my greedy gene .

DD is napping thankfully. Yesterday she refused to nap for most of the afternoon. Heat + whingey baby = shortempered mother

Indith I can't begin to imagine what she would make of us lot. We must all be in some sort of cult!!

Just been upstairs for a lie down. Got a dreadful headache and I was trying to get rid of it.

Mum has bought the car for my brother and me to learn in. Very Very excited!!

Coven Kayz, we are a coven. A lentil weaving, sandal wearing coven. Right whoever has microwaves we are going to hunt you out.

ZJ I forgot to say earlier you sound incredibly upbeat for someone who is having such a horrible time healthwise at the moment. When is DH back?

Spot I seem to remember with DS1 that techniques we tried to use to get him go to sleep or stay asleep overnight seemed to kind of work a bit better around 8 months. I don't know if this was because we started chilling out a bit more or it coincided with coming back from Australia and/or him starting to crawl. It could be completely random but if you do change what your doing and try something else and that doesn't work it may still be worth going back to something you tried earlier or trying again in a month or so.

Trace that cake is gorgeous it really made me smile. I think if I were five I would be so chuffed to have that cake , it's a happy cake. You've inspired me to make DS1's 4th birthday cake next month.

Kayz when is the christening, is it the weekend? How as you coping with all the organisation, is it stressful?

Well DH has put in his request for voluntary redundacy, he things his company will try not to pay out the full package as it is discretionary. He spoke to an HR guy and he said they would push for them to pay the full wack as long as he said he def didn't want to apply for the new team. So we'll see. Unfortunately it means losing my lovely car, boohoo, but we might get a peugeot 206 which is what we used to have and I always loved it. It also means that as he will finish up on the 31st July and our driving/cycling holiday to Holland is on the 3rd August, we will have to cancel that, luckily our travel insurance covers the ferry ticket to Holland so that's fine. It would be a big cost to hire something for the trip and we probably wouldn't have another car by then. I'm not so bothered we might take a week in September to go to Italy instead and then go skiing in Jan. I have to say I'm becoming a little like you Trace, I quite fancy just staying home. I was quite dreading the idea of leaving my lovely veggie patch. Who would water and care for my babies. Who would hand pick off the naughty buggies. I had organized a friend to come harvest some of the veggies as they ripened but I love picking them and putting them straight into a meal. Tonight the DS' had home made pesto pasta with spinach, peas & broad beans from the garden. I think because DS1 actually picks the veggies, shells the beans & peas and watches them go into his dinner, is why he will now eat them. He would never touch anything green before. Gosh don't I sound like Martha Stewart, somebody sedate me!

I also set up a limited company for DH today too, well I filled out an online for made up a name and paid someone else to square it all with the relevant govt department. He is going to go freelancing as he found when he put the feelers our that many of his old work colleagues from the old days now either own or head up companies and want to contract him to do work so he will work through his limited company. I am now officially a company secretary, DH believes this entitled him to get up to cheeky things at his desk. However as this is also our dining table I think not.

Lady T First a disclaimer- I'm not a employment lawyer so can't say what option is right for you but I am an employment rights adviser (well I was, now I manage them!) so I can say what your options are in these circumstances.

Now to the problem. You said that you had agreed these changes with your employer. What form did that take? Did they put anything in writing? If it was a firm agreement then effectively your contract was varied to say that you would be part-time & work from home occasionally. Obviously if they put this in writing (not necessarily giving you a revised contract but an email or letter confirming it) that is better as you have something to point to and back up your argument. If there is nothing in writing then that is harder but not the end of the world. An employment contract does not have to be written down to be legally binding. Once you both agreed to the changes they couldn't change their mind and revert back to the old one iyswim. They could give you notice that they will be ending your new contract and offering you the old one (full time, in the office) back. The minimum period for that would be a week for every full year of service up to a maximum of 12, or what notice period is in your contract (whichever is the greater) but they would have to have a pretty good reason to do that.

Obviously they will be trying to argue that it was never a firm agreement just that they would discuss it when you returned so think about what you have that backs up your version of events (emails, letters etc where you mentioned your agreement)

The flexible working laws are crap. If you can't sort this out then you could try a formal flexible working application but tbh if they say the business can't support it then there is very little you can do.
What you may have in your favour is the comment that they didn't think you would be back to work so didn't think about it. There is potentially a Sex Discrimination issue there which you could use as a bargaining tool. It is the kind of comment that indicates that they haven't given your request proper consideration because you are on Mat Leave. If you have already made a formal flex working request then this is what you could use to challenge their decision at tribunal as it suggests their decision is not actually based on business reasons.

So options open to you? My first stop would be your hotshot employment lawyer friend who ccan give you proper legal advice on your situation (rather than a random person from t'internet .) Then decide how to play it. If you had firm agreement and are confident about fighting it then you can claim that you have had a variation of contract imposed on you and make a claim for unfair dismissal (you can do this even while still working for them) Add Sex Discrim to the claim as well for good measure. This is a very hard-core option- as you said this can mess up your employment relationship with no guarentee that you will get something.

Softer options are to raise a grievance and appeal their decision- gather evidence to support your case for homeworking, why do your clients even have to know that is what you are doing if it is all by email and phone? You can go in as soft or as hard as you like. For a soft approach you could say something along the lines of "your comments about how you did not expect me back made me feel unappreciated and that I have been punished for taking maternity leave" If they have any brains in their head they will pick up on the Sex Discrim issue and try to resolve it in case you escalate it. If you do take it further you'd have to make it clearer that you regard it as SD but phrasing it that way at first means you can all pretend you aren't really saying it so they can face save and back track.

Option 3 is of course to ignore it, inwardly seethe and look for a new job.
Only you know what is best for you and ignoring it can sometimes be the best option for an individual so if you pick that then don't feel bad about it. Personally, I have done option 2 (issues combining breastfeeding and works request that I stay overnight for a training course) That approach was successful for me as it resolved the issue and there haven't been any long term impacts (I even got promoted afterwards!)

As for nursery- it isn't all doom and gloom. My 2 go 2 1/2 days a week. DS loves it (even complaining cos he had chickenpox and couldn't go in) and DD doesn't seem to have had a problem so far. When DS refused to sleep at nursery they did a form of co-sleeping where they snuggled up next to him. He now sleeps quite happily. I was so happy that they tried to deal with the issue in a similar way to how I would do it at home.

anyway dinner is ready so I better go, if you want any more info tomorrow then give me a shout. I'll be around during the day as DD now has chicken pox so having been back at work 4 days I have to be off again! Really though I think you should talk to your friend, just so you can make a proper informed decision about how to handle their rubbish behaviour. Good Luck

The thing is we do have a microwave!!! We use it quite a bit but we do make most things from scratch.

Christening is on Sunday. Everything is pretty much planned. Just need to finalise the cake. Really looking forward to seeing my uncle who I haven't seen in 5 years. My brother and me idolised him as children.

Isn't this place great

Veggie I'm tittering at you and your dining room table

I forgot the nursery bit when posting earlier. Ds goes a day a week and adores it to the extent that I have to avoid going that way when going out for a walk as he will throw a tantrum outside the door if we can't go in! You try explaining ot a toddler that it isn't his day or that it is a holiday so there is nobody there! The place is fantastic and I trust the staff 100%. He is really confident there, chats away to all the staff and generally has a ball. The manager has just gone back to work after maternity leave and ds was nattering away to her like he'd seen her yesterday. He started going at 9 months when I went into the final year of my degree and by the end of the year was pretty much full time.

We have amicrowave too. Gets used for defrosting meat when we forget to get it out of the freezer and for making that chocolate pudding in a mug