Dec 08 mums - embuggerance to it all - sleep or no sleep we love our babes

[waitinggirl]

i hope people don't mind, i took the bull by the horns and did it. title a bit naff, but more important the thread exists rather than search for a better title. hope i haven't stolen anyone's thunder...

Sorry to hear about your childcare issues JJ.

Yes, and that developmental movement stuff is tosh, at my nursery anyway. They have a bottleneck so everyone moves in the summer time usually and not before. Ok for later babies, but not ours which are born in December/January. DS1 was in with the babies until he was more than 1.5, which I think was too long. It has been quite an issue at our nursery.....

Actually I'm going to have a bit of a browsw around my other local ones as we went with the workplace one without thinking; if DH stays at home for a bit I will lose the places anyway so I'd be interested to see what else is about just in case.

Hi all - thanks for missing me LadyT just a coincidence that I logged on today, first time in a few weeks. Welcome Staines!!

Of course haven't caught up but will try to....our main news is that DH got made redundant (but we expected it - and actually it's a relief in some ways as his employers were behaving appallingly ...). Here's hoping he has a nice summer off and then gets a job!

But maybe the upside is, I might get time to MN. At the mo, I can only manage a bit of FBing but I miss you all dreadfully.

When/where is the meetup please? Is there a sep thread?

Turnip: so nice to see you! Sorry about your DH's job, that's been hanging over you for ages. So a good thing that it is resolved (and a summer off is great).

JJ: that's very annoying, maybe this is a Sign that you should be doing the other job? The nursery situation sounds a bit mad too. Could you look at getting a nanny or a nanny-share instead?

Staines: I'm sure you CM isn;t criticising, and if she you can ignore her! My previous CM (who as I've said before was great and DS1 loved her) raised her eyebrows a bit at some of our parenting choices (including DS1 not having had a bottle) but was polite enough to not say anything! The main thing is will your baby be happy there (and does she know what she's doing, which after 5 kids I assume she would).

Veggie: I am envious of your garden, ours still looks like a bombsite only now with a few additions. DH had a happy day ripping out some of the endless shrubbery so we have another rather scrubby patch of soil to do stuff with - any ideas?

Oh and does anyone know how you get rhubarb? I assumed it just appeared near any shed/abandoned sink but we don;t have anywhere and we have a patch (by the shed) that seems to grow nothing but nettles. Rhubarb would be a good alternative!

Hey Turnip missed you lovey. Shame about your DH's job but time at home all together sounds lovely.

JJ that is annoying and NJAN that's just terrible about leaving him in babies til 1.5yrs. DS1's nursery starts at 1.5years and they move up to the childrens house the term after their 3rd birthday. It was quite good but he was def ready to move up. The group he's in now is the 3-6 years group though some leave to go to other schools at 4.

Hello everyone

What a gorgeous day. It has been slightly vexing though as whatever I do, all DD will eat with any enthusiasm are the sodding Plum Baby/ Ella's Kitchen type purees. Nothing I make for her will do. I also tried her with various other things today - baby pasta, cheese, avocado, you name it. DP even mashed up some fresh trout with milk. If I do the one spoon of fruit puree, one spoon of something else trick, she sniffs every single spoonful beforehand like a hound and if she suspects it is not sweet, she clamps her gob shut. Furthermore, if I try to give her either a cup with a spout or just sips from the rim of a cup, she goes hysterical with rage until we give her a bottle. Where has my chilled little angel gone?

Indith, how are things going? You were having a time of it the other day.

Veggie, is your DH back from Poland? I am supposed to be going to Krakow for the weekend at the end of July (been before, it's gorgeous) but I am haven't booked flights yet as DP is telling me we can only go Friday morn to Sunday morn and I am wondering if it is worth it.

Arti, this sleep consultant sounds quite miraculous. I am so glad it sounds like it is off to a promising start. Fingers crossed for tonight.

Oh, and welcome, Staines. Kids can't be spoiled with cuddles, as I am sure you already know! I am alone I think in finding water beds uncomfy, but I hope you get a go on it soon!

JJ - that is a poo about the job. Does that really count as offering you flexible working, which they are obliged to do? It is very disappointing. Why does it have to be three days in a row? They don't know who they are going to be getting! That might not suit them, either! Let me know if you get your treat tomorrow

PMK - have you decided about Barcelona yet? If you do, go to Els Quatre Gats, an interesting bar where Picasso used to go. House I am viewing on Saturday is in a small village much like this one called Enstone, but it is a good size house, so too good an opportunity to dismiss.

Bisou, I laughed at Nut Roast City Limits. May well try that one. You are brave, predicting the poos. I saw a show about that once, though, and some people swore by it.

Trace have you made up your mind about the School Nurse post? It sounds so suitable.

JB - your first triangular poo I think DD may go down to three bottles a day from four soon.

NJAN - wow, another baby - do you think you will?

Turnip, how lovely to see you again. So sorry about DH's job but I guess at least you haven't got the Sword of Damocles hanging above your heads now...at least it is going to a be a nice summer weather-wise (so they keep telling us).

I am still walking for an hour a day and also rowing for 15 mins per day. How I hate my wobbly arms and my hol with my Mum in Italy is a fortnight on Saturday. Boo. Must redouble my efforts. Oh, and have restricted my cheerfulness to weekends only....Sometimes I feel my life is shades of Groundhog Day - never losing weight or progressing far enough with my work. Gah.

Spot, I am so glad you had a good camping trip, I meant to say.

Right, orf to bed.

JJ that is rubbish about your p/t work and about the nursery. DD's nursery did move them'up' on their birthday but it was a very small nursery (only about 10-15 children at each level).

DS was good last night. It seems to be one night on one night off at the moment. Anyway we are off to the Lakes later to meet my parents so they can deal with him tonight if he plays up

Right lots to pack and sort out. Hopefully catch up on Friday before we go to devon. Take care everyone and babies be good for your mummies

veggiemummy- no wonder you were confused by heat comment- had got my threads confused, and was replying to feralgirl on another thread! oh sleep deprivation, can i blame you for everything??

I have to say I know when you have loads of kids giving each attention is hard but I don't know if I could just put DS2 in a room and close the door on a regular basis if he was crying, I would do it if at the end of my tether and just for a couple of minutes but not all the time surely cuddles and touching is better. The sleep consultant Arti has is a specialist in baby sleep and settling and she advocates shushing and patting doesn't she.

Lady I do empathize on the feeding thing I used to cook lovely organic veg to perfection for DS1 and all he wanted was hipp organic courgette and mozerella(sp) tomato penne pasta. It used to drive me spare. I'm not sure if this is the right advice but I would just go with it. We persisted with trying to make him eat other things and now he is adverse to so many foods, so I would do the opposite of what we did. As far as I can see the Ellas kitchen and plum baby stuff is pretty good so it's not like your giving her the equivalent of baby junk food. But I do feel your frustration.

sigh. DD has definietly forgotten how to sleep. Fate, meet my bum and take a good old munch! Last night woke at 11.30, dh tried cuddling and shushing but every time she was put down she'd yell, in the end I fed her off at 12.15. Had to stay there with nipple in mouth as not even the pull-off was working, she arches up and chases it around and won't suck her thumb. Awake again at about 2, same deal, then 4, then up at 6.30 for the day. Tried feeding her to a nap at 8.30, after 45 mins of nearly there, back away, flailing around 'evil mother what are you playing at?' just gave up and left her there and peeking through the crack in the door I can see she's awake and looking indignantly around. But rubbing her eyes

Gah! If you're tired, and someone lays you down in a darkened room and feeds you til you're very dozy, you'd think you'd stay asleep. But no...

Bring back my sleeping baby, please - otherwise we're going to be lynched on the flight on Saturday!

further to the nursery situation, it's occurred to me that if the baby room is full this September, surely there won't be any new spaces next september as the 'cohort' is already there and they will have new baby spaces but none further up, unless people move away etc.

The work thing - this is what the policy says:
"A member of staff returning from maternity or adoption leave can request to return to work on a graduated basis, provided that their institution can make arrangements to cover their duties at no extra cost to the University. Any agreement to a change in working arrangements will be considered on the basis of the operational requirements of the department. A graduated return allows a member of staff to return to work following maternity or adoption leave initially for a minimum 20% of full-time. It is expected that the member of staff will then increase their hours over the following 12 months, e.g. rising to 50 per cent or more within 6 months and be back to full-time within 12 months following their initial date of return."

So if it costs them anything (eg the cost of biscuits for the interview panel ) they can say no - and apparently in the current financial situation they're not getting automatic approval for applications, everything is having to be justified really carefully. This is not flexible working in the strictest sense in that that would mean a permanent change to part time - this should mean I can go back p/t then to f/t at the end of the year which is what we'd like. But how on earth do they think the graduated return as above is meant to work - you can hardly offer someone a job and say Well it starts out as 4 days a week but by the end of the year it'll just be 1.

Am starting to wonder if it's all worth the flipping hassle... we're very lucky that we could live on DH's salary alone, so I could just quit work altogether. But then I really enjoy my work and don't want to step off the ladder - it's such a small field that I work in that jobs come up very rarely.

Oh well. It's a sunny day, dd still grizzling intermittently upstairs and has been for half an hour so I guess she's just not going to nap. Time to get out of the house and stop feeling sorry for myself!

Morning All

Last night was NOT a good night. So much for the first night of sleep training being the worst. I can't bear to go into details as if I think about it too much I might stop it. The sleep consultant made me promise I would give it three nights, otherwise she said there was no point in starting, so I am going to let her continue tonight .

JJ - that is pants about your work not offering you the days you need. Why does the other part-timer get first dibs on choice of days? (or is that not the problem?). I agree that nurseries often put logistics for profit maximisation over the baby's best interests. DD1 started in a nursery at 9 months but I took her out eventually and found a local nanny share (much cheaper than a sole charge nanny). She just needed a much more individualised approach than the nursery could manage. Oh, and also, I told DH that you thought his novel sounded interesting and he was over the moon! He is struggling with it though. He wants to use the fiction to illustrate how the workers rose in power thanks to the black death because there were fewer of them so their skills were in great demand, but that is hard to illustrate in fiction.

Veggie - I cannot believe J is crawling. Your boys are very advanced physically. They clearly take after their sporty mum and dad. My girls have inherited my approach to physical exercise and N has therefore only rolled over twice and prefers to lie around eating things (I have put some new pics on FB showing her love of food)!

LadyT - I sympathise with the addiction to Ella's Kitchen. If I am spoon feeding DD2 she will only accept sweet stuff. But if I give her huge chucks of ery soft sweet potato or butternut squash or even carrot then she greatly enjoys sucking on them and actually she eats alot like that (the chunks have to be big enough for her to get a good grip). Its a messy business though! Good luck with the house viewing. I am viewing another one at 11am this morning. Yawn, its all to boring at the mo.

Turnip - Lovely to see you back but sorry to hear about your DH's job. Are you going to take advantage of your time off together and get out of London? I do hope so.

Gah, just seen the time, I am interviewing a nanny in 1 minute and I have not brushed my hair. xxx

morning all!
JJ sorry for your bad night...this too will pass
I wonder how ARTI got on last night? Arti when you said she cried for 14/13 minutes on the first night, was that intense, cross crying or feeble whingey crying? DH went to P when she woke at 10 last night and managed to settle her back to sleep after 10 mins (5 mins mega cross cries, 5 mins of whinge), but then she woke up 30 minuts later and would only settle with boob. SHe woke again at 1 for another feed and then you know I actually have no idea if she woke again! She woke at 6.15 for the day and I really don't remember getting up between then and the 1am feed, but that would be unheard of so I don't know if I've just forgotten it because I am so sleepy, or whether she really went 5 hours
After a big chat with dh I've decided to go for the School Nurse job . SO I guess I should be doing the whole CV and letter thing not MN! I'm a bit worried that my letter will just be all about triangular poos and poor sleep and bottle-refusing and purees as that seems to be all my brain can think about. Must try to relate my application to the job rather than my baby!
Lady P also rather likes Ella's Kitchen and not so much my versions! Although she gobbled down my salmon in cheese sauce with bug smiles! And like your dd if she's refusing savoury stuff (moaning, mouth clamped shut, head turned away) I offer a bit of fruit and she gobbles it down! I have seriously relaxzed about the finger foods now though. L seems to give her chinks of whatever she's got and P enjoys it so I'm just letting her! She's had a potato smiley face now!
Well I ought to go...hope you have a good day in the sunshine

love from Trace xxx

whoops. I seem to have 'signed off' as though I was writing you all a letter

Hello everyone,

Sorry for all the bad nights. I hope they improve soon.

Turnip Sorry to hear about your DH's job.

DS2 is now crawling about. Much to the amusement of DS1. They often follow each other around the house!!

I am bloody exhausted. I have no idea why as I slept all night and got over 8 hours. Might go back to GP about it.

Hope you are all well.

Oh arti just cross posted with you. sorry about last night. Will keep my fingers crossed for tonight for you. I guess at the end of the day even if it turns out not to work for your dd, then at least you've tried it - I think if you hadn't you would always be wishing you'd given it a go. Not much consolation now though. And I don't suppose Mrs Sleep comes cheap either...

it appears I can't type this morning

Morning all,
Crappish night for me here too. Only got up to feed him once, but lots of whining and rolling over and getting stuck and then whining. And then I argued with DH cos I woke him up annoyed at 6am, and he thinks this is shit of me but 99% of the time I try not to wake him up and make sure he has enough sleep. And 6am is not THAT early.
this thread is reassuring in some ways, but in others I want to hear everyone else's baby to be sleeping 7-7 perfectly so I can dream mine will soon. Especially as DS is one of the younger ones! Everyone in RL who I know who have babies (most of whose babies are a bit older than mine) are sleeping crap too .
This too will pass (but WHEN , sorry most impatient of me!)
arti really sorry to hear about crap night. I will also have fingers xed for you tonight.
trace I did giggle at Love from Trace!! And good luck with the job.

Weaning going pretty slowly here. I think he is now swallowing small amounts, but loses interest after several spoonfuls, and most goes down his face. I haven't tried ella's kitchen yet (seems a waste when he'll only eat a small amount of one!) but he did seem to like apple which I gave him this morning. Oh and he often seems more interested in trying to pull the bib off the little monster. My approach to the fussiness would be too keep regularly trying what they don't like but not be too pushy or bothered about it. The Ella's kitchen's usually have some normal veggies don't they, it's just they usually have a sweet ingredient too?

jj I did wonder about the nursery when you said they'd have space the sept after. I guess with a big group leaving each Sept if you wanted the place they can probably arrange it so you could fit into the appropriate room next Sept, by moving certain babies up etc. But it does rather sound like moving up a room in general won't necessarily be possible. By the way if this is the same nursery you were talking about before we haven't heard from them yet. Oh and sorry about the crappy night, I hope the 7 til 4 and then 7 comes back. I miss those nights too!! Sorry to hear about the job stuff, maybe the part time job you are applying for will be the answer? More time with S and still working so keeping your eye in?

staines I am with veggie on thinking the put them in a room comment and shut the door a little weird. I know I only have one but I wouold have thought it's a last resort!! Have only done that once or twice when at the end of my tether.

Love from Summer XXX

Hi folks, so sorry for all the dodgy sleep going on round here, like Daisy we tend to have one good day one bad. He always seems to sleep better in the night of we've been swimming in the day but I don't think I can afford to do it every day! Feeling a bit sorry for myself too as I have a sinus infection and bad throat (again) so not feeling benefit of T's occasional sleepathons. Really hope he doesn't get it.
We're trying ditching the dummy but it seems to work for some naps/ sleeps and not others. If I happen to get the timing exactly right he'll drop off, but if not (as now) I just try for 20 mins and then give in and dummy him up as then he'll just be overtired and not sleep at all. We did have some success yesterday though - he slept in his cot for the lunchtime nap for the first time in months so I didn't have to do my epic laps of the park. Am really hoping he'll kindly agree to do the same today as 'tis Wimbledon and I am poorly.

Oh, and something else - my HV reckons T has tongue tie but wants me to go to GP to confirm. If it is, I'll be so mad as no one saw it when I had troubles breastfeeding, and apparently if they are able to swallow solids they don't snip it at this age, but what impact might that have on speech? I only noticed it as I realised he has never stuck his tongue out or licked his lips, and all my friends' babies do that regularly.

Arti, so sorry the sleeping consultant hasn't come up with the goods, maybe it's a case of getting worse before it gets better? Maybe they normally have a hard first night, but surely it also depends on what happens in the day too and maybe the day before yesterday was more conducive to nighttime sleep than yesterday? It's just that there are so many variables (food, daytime activity etc etc) that maybe tonight might be better? I really hope so..

Hi Turnip, so sorry to hear about your DH's redundancy, hope he manages to find something soon. How are things with three LOs? I imagine it must be a logistical challenge just getting everyone up in the morning but so night to see them all playing together.

Good news you've decided to go for the school nurse job, Trace, sounds like you'd be really good. Hope the application isn't too arduous.

Am v jealous of people doing the BLW as it sounds a lot of fun but as the dietician wanted T to be weaned early she said we had to start on purees. He does seem to like his food, but broccoli def doesn't agree with him, he gets really bad stomach pains. Trying protein tomorrow for first time, am slightly dreading the poos, but otherwise optimistic. . Would prob second Veg's advice to just give em what they want right now, as things seem to change so quickly and so long as they're still drinking plenty of milk they should be getting enough nutrients. And what they hate one day they seem to go for another...

Kayz, sorry you're feeling so tired, probably a good idea to discuss with GP so you can rule things out. I'm sure that cumulative sleep deprivation does funny things to your immune system, I feel like one of the three of us is always ill, but have been told to get used to this as it only gets worse once they become toddlers and bring all sort of things home!

Need to get some lunch in case T's sleep yesterday was one off.

Sincerely yours,
Spot
x

[puts on face mask before entering thread] One of DH's patients on Monday has been confirmed with swine flu They have a MASSIVE red sign on the door, and at the bottom of the steps, and above the reception desk, that say "If you have any of the following symptoms please return home and we will come out to visit". because after someone with suspected SF they have to take a swab (which takes half an hour because of tranches of admin) and then disinfect the room and he has to move to a different room to see his patients until that's done. On Monday how many of DH's Cambridge educated patients managed to ignore all three of these signs and then say "Oh I've got kind of coldy symptoms but I'm sure it's not swine flu, ha ha"? 5 So he had to move rooms 5 times (back and forth, back and forth...) and ended up running hours and hours late. Eeeejits. And now one of them does have it... He says he's feeling absolutely fine, so hope there aren't any questions at Canadian passport control about contact with it! (actually shouldn't matter at all, they've got loads too so we're just sharing the joy)

at my rantathon earlier. We decided that since she wasn't sleeping we'd go to a mums and babes group just down the road - clashes with lots of the other things we try to do - and it was really lovely. And now she's conked out after the effort of socialising so much hurrah

Turnip sorry about your DH's job but as you say if they were being crapsters, maybe it's for the best - and you get him for family time over the summer.

arti about the night, hopefully it will be third time lucky and all will be well. This lady knows what she's doing, and like trace said, at least you know you've tried. I see what you mean about hard to make the novel sound thrilling - but he can do it! Re the part time, I know, it makes very little sense to me either to say they'll only get someone to do 3 days in a row (especially as the girl who's covering at the moment only worked part time before so would probably be able to fit in with my plans - not of course that she'd automatically be given it but would be in a very strong position). Maybe they feel it would be easier to advertise - but people have so many different part time working patterns anyway, they can't guarantee what would be the most likely. Never mind eh! [resigned face]

trace fantastic news about the school nurse job you've always come across as such a wise and caring person, you really would be brilliant. Fingers crossed, keep us updated!

SL it's patacake that said definitely not when we'd really had our hopes pinned on them maybe they're telling their absolute no hopers first and getting round to the people higher up the list gradually once they know what exactly they can offer you? Would you be looking for part time or full time from the outset? Ace said very unlikely before next Sept, but they'll keep us on the list anyway if we want.

spot hello lovely sorry you're poorly but sofa, wimbledon, cuppa should be a good way to cope with symptoms...

can't help re effects of tongue tie, surely they would have spotted it before when you were having BF looked at? Maybe he just doesn't like licking his lips?!

brilliant news about the napping in the cot, go baby T!

Not the best out of the post dummy nights, however not the worst either. woke a couple of times however only literally a minute to settle when I turn him over... He must be unable to turn himself cause he is half asleep or something? So all in all not going too bad!
Lady I can relate to the Ella's kitchen and Plum obsession - it's over here too... I have a new trick which is to mix cream cheese with one of the puree's I made - he loves it. Enstone - sounds quaint - is it on the train line? Now that we have a new tenant our flat will be going off the market again so who knows when we will sell and be able to buy a house to do another reno on I had been going back and forth on the Barceona plan, when I decided I would go, so I called the airline and since I will be standby it looks really ugly, so I think the decisions been made, as I don't fance getting stuck sitting around airports and rolled from flight to flight with ds in tow - bad enough on my own when that happens! Now dh wants to fly back early as he entered the Dartmoor Classic ages ago, however I think may be burning the candle at both ends a touch! We'll see!
Weather lovely again - dog is shedding like mad.
Kayz - maybe you are pregnant!
Turnip - hello! I missed you too! Sorry about your DH job.
JJ- sorry to hear about your return to work stuff too.... Hope something sorts out soon.
Arti good luck with the house viewing - where is it?
Love from Pmk x

crossed post there massivly as I washed the dog before I posted! many typos / spelling mistakes JJ - about educated patients not reading / respecting!!
Spot what is tongue tie? Will google that one.

ds just sat up on his own!!!! Then I turned around to type that here and he did a total face plant and missed the rug by about an inch no injuries though.... better practise a little more though in centre of rug!

Spoke too soon. Woke up crying after 45 mins and no amount of dummy/ pupd seems to work .

Spot: I will be so so cross if T has tongue-tie after the nightmares you went through feeding him . Didn't PD have to jump through innumerable hoops to get her DD sorted even though she knew there was a problem after her DS's tongue tie? GRRRRRRRR

Trace: glad you're going for the job, sounds perfect for you . And JJ, if you can't get the days you need could you offer yourself as a consultant on X days a week? I find the block working thing a bit odd, I'll be back 3 days to start with and it's much better if the days are spread out. I'll prob be doing Mon Tues Thurs to start with. Totally agree on the career

prob, I have similar issues as if I stop working (which is frankly tempting looking at the childcare bills) it would be difficult for me to find such a good post after the boys are at school. Though nice to think that people are beating down the doors for jobs like ours!

LadyT: have you tried mixing some fruit puree in with your concoctions? I do this with baby cereal as DS2 won't touch it otherwise.

Agree on the mixing packets with finger foods, that's what we do most of the time.

Arti: only one night to go

Sleep: er... I seem to remember I had some at one point... 6 mo growth spurt def hitting here. Can't beleive that DS2 still needs SO much milk while chomping his way through lots of other food.

Tinkerty-tonk,

Effiexx

Evening all, just a quickie as putting DS2 off to sleep and DS1 may be in any minute to get me to read a book, DH is out on a ride and I'm off for a run/cycle/swim after he gets back I'm not sure which yet?

I forgot to say earlier had bad night with DS2 wiggling and kicking and waking randomly crying and feeding overnight, so it's teeth/heat/growth spurt or all of the above. DS2 had a nose bleed at some ungodly hour which freaked him out so DH was in with him so I had Mr kicksy random screamer all to myself. Surprisingly didn't feel too tired with it today but would be happy to not have a repeat tonight.

Lovely day though we had paddling pool out and I pottered around the garden a bit.

Arti I love the idea of your DH's book even more, can I proof read it?

Oooh Kayz could you be up the duff.

PMK that all sounds a bit too much hassle esp as the weather will prob be great here. Where is DH's race, could you make a weekend of it?

DH has a competition in Manchester this weekend, so we are going to go camping in the Hope Valley so he and his friend can drive over to the comp and his wife and I will chill out in Hope with the kids. They are good friends (though there son is the hitter?!) so she and I are thinking we might go to the pub in the evening to make up for looking after the kids in the morning while they go to the comp.

Lady, could you go over or come back a little earlier, or later with DD so you can be away longer?

Arti sorry about the bad night but as someone said it must have to get a bit worse before it gets better, hang in there you know we all want this to work don't you so you have collective White light/prayers and positive thoughts going to you.

Right DH is back DS2 is nearly asleep better get a wriggle on!

Boom Shanka
Veggie xoxo