September 08 Remember what we were doing this time last year?[wink]

[Debs75goldrings]

So what were we all doing this time last year?

ehem, here

Happy birthday ILTHH! lol at picking your bday present - I live in fear of DP deciding he's capable of picking me a present.

T's been incredibly sniffly and chesty today, but been in an amazingly good mood considering. We bought him an enormously tacky snowman outfit from mothercare which he's been wearing while we put up the tree and drink mulled wine today. He's so cute!

Very long. so long I will have to watch the end later

sorry Foxy, didn't mean to worry you. Poor use of smileys on my part.

NC that sounds great and really useful.

M had a 3.5 hr sleep this morning (I wish she'd sleep that long at night! It was good to be able to do stuff with dd1 though.

Has anyone seen the (short) review in the Guardian Family of the Huggers vs Schedulers survey? Foxy and Starlight I think you'd find it interesting

here's the internet link

Very interesting ninjiglebells*.
I'm so very tired, however we did have a better night (ish) E went to bed at 10.30 with us, we've moved his cot into our room and dropped one side so he can still feed when he wants to but, at least now dh can sleep back in his bed. then he woke at 12.30 but was so very sleepy still, so after a lonnnng feed he settled again for 2am then after a dreem feed at atound 5ish slept til 7. I think thats not too bad, considering he wouldn't go to sleep until 4am last week.
Its MIL birthday tomorrow, so it'll be a long day.
We've finally put up our christmas tree, and I must say it looks good. but still have presents (to buy) and post, cards to write and post, food to buy and cook. I'm so unorganised. I think I need one of your spread sheets Hopefully to make me get my finger pulled put
Have been singing the grand old duke of york to Elliot in a funny helium voice today, made us all giggle!

Happy birthday ILTHH!!

really of present... still waiting for mine from when I had DS, never mind this time round! I mentioned it recently, and DP looked mortified (I reminded him I didn't even received flowers from him!), and I thought it was just an italian tradition he wasn't aware of (being born in this country)... ok, they're our children, he emotionally suffered I suppose seeing me through pain (he said he can't go through it again!!)... but I went through the pain, and still am I'm sure I deserve a bit of recognition!!

anyway, never mind.. interesting that study ninji

Thank you for the birthday wishes ladies .

I was thinking of all the members of the 4.30am club this morning as I was feeding M. Somehow it's a comfort to know that there are others in the same position.

Happy birthday ILTHHH

Have been keeping a diary of Robyn's sleep patterns and it seems her 'night' is roughly midnight till 11am. She feeds 11pm ish them 7ish and 11am ish. Whilst we are taking B to school and over the holidays it isn't too bad but when B goes back on transport i want to get some routine in where me and dp can have some time together in the evenings.
Any ideas on the best way to shift her nighttime.

What is 'pfb'?

Potxola Lovely post! Hope your 2009 is as good or beter than 2008.

ninja Thank you for your vote of confidence. I've just been accused of not listening and having no imagination, but tbh it's my own fault. foxy warned me to stay away from that crazy thread.

I have no idea how much BS sleeps in the day. Not one clue! I find it amazing that people know these things.

Happy Birthday ILYMIMI Great to have a birthday at the weekend!

Foxy I've bookedmarked that link for a break in between packing. Thanks.

ninja Thanks for that link. I visited his website which was very interesting too.

Debs Precious First Born

Woe is me... I dropped my laptop in the floor when BF (it fell off the sofa ) and it is now totally dead! Have borrowed DH's to get back on MN for a quick catch up, then need to pack up mine to send to the laptop hospital (or possibly the morgue).

Still fighting this #@% thrush. I have taken note of all your tips, notcitrus* and I am so encouraged that a fellow sufferer has come through the other side. (and the SPD too... how are you getting on now? I have just started pilates and it is fantastic.) Well done on the thrush and thanks for the encouraging example. Do you mind telling me where you bought the grapefruit seed extract? I too have had no luck with H+B, and because of where we live I need to find somewhere I can order on line, that I know will actually send the right stuff.

I am seeing a BF supporter tomorrow morning so I really hope this helps. I really thought we had turned the corner a week ago. I had no more symptoms or pain, and remembered GP saying keep up with treatment until symptom-free for 7 days. Then on Wednesday it came back and is now worse than ever. My poor, painful breasts. I have now been on flucanzole since 25 October...

Ninjingle that's quite an interesting little article, although the most important point that it makes is that a ridiculously small amount of study has been done into the issue. Also frustrating that of people who are 'schedulers' there was a far higher likelihood of, for example, having the baby in its own room at a young age and stopping BF, so it's hard to link cause and effect (difficult to know whether those mothers would have done so anyway, or whether the schedule made it more likely, or what). A bigger study taking into account more variables would probably be very enlightening.

starlight clearly you need a copy of the anal retentive's guide to parenting, then you would know how much sleep BS gets!

Ooh, just googled the study referenced in that feature - it makes some other interesting points, suggesting that a middle ground parenting route leads to the most satisfied baby. So probably what most of us do in reality anyway!

Poor little T is still being v brave through his cold - he's ridiculously snuffly and coughing and sneezing, but constantly smiling and cooing inbetween. He's so cute

tbh Hopefully I don't think you come across as an anal retentive at all in your posts, but as a genuine new mother trying to do her best, figure it out and find some pattern and predictability in a brand new uncertain world.

Gosh, that sounds a bit patronising but I really don't mean it like that. Just I suppose, that your posts are a good example of a typical mum with typical newborn issues and if other mums could read about it, it could help them. I dare say other Sept 08 people have benefitted already from your honest accounting. I think you should keep hold of them in any case.

Poor you doneymum! My SPD is non-existent now - I saw the physio 2 weeks after birth and said the pelvis seemed better but I was getting other pain. She told me that I hadn't used my walking muscles for 5 months so it was just tired muscles. D'oh!

So been doing loads of walking with the pushchair (often an hour a day doing errands), and now the hospital post-natal exercises which is a low-inpact circuit and some pilates under strict supervision. I'm supposed to ensure good core stability before getting preg again, but all my joints were beautifully stable beforehand and I was quite fit, so I guess it's luck of the draw.

I got the grapefruit seed oil from Nature's Path, a local indie healthfood/hippy/organic store. Along with lots of the sugar-free chocolate which was vital! (but do heed the warnings not to eat more than a bar a day...)

ninjingle interesting article. I'm not sure I agreed when it referred to schedulers putting babies in their own cots so therefore they could not be sure they were actually sleeping through (as they could not hear them waking). C does normally sleep through on our schedule as she is not co-sleeping but is still in our room in her basket (and will be for the forseeable future). I am also a semi-scheduler but would not let C ever cry for more than a minute or so.

Interesting to read though - stimulated some thought.

Oh dear - credit card bill arrived and we've spent more than we intended on xmas! Hey ho. I also find that just going out with C costs money - breast or bottle fed, we all need somewhere to feed our babies and that often means a cafe, which costs! I have fed her in the car but it's not very nice.

Thank you starlight! You're so nice.

imsantasmum I have started spending loads of money going out with T - a cup of tea, a slice of cake, a sandwich, a bit of shopping... Need to cut back as my pay drops soon! Thank heavens it lasts until the end of jan, so we were able to afford some xmas presents.

hopefully can you link to the study? I couldn't find it.

I agree that it's a small study which probably therefore has no statistical significance, but it did make me think and realise that most of us have some middle ground.

Starlight yes, some issues are to be ignored on mn. We've all had our fingers burned at some points. It is tempting to want people to realise the 'truth'! But when I look at how you are on a thread like this when you 'know' the people you are speaking to, you DO listen.

santasmum and hopefully drink the coffee, eat the cake, hang the expense! Once your LOs are crawling things will change drastically. The first six months with my dd were the most wonderful time, going out for coffees and nattering with my friends, with my gorgeous little girl happy just to be there with her mummy. Once they're crawling and aren't happy to sit in coffee shops, bouncing on your knee, those days will be over for some time (to be replaced by equally enjoyable but very different activities!) so go and make the most while you can!

I find the routine debate very interesting, I think serious damage was done by the routiner on that 'bringing up baby' program, who claimed that babies didn't want to be cuddled, and let them scream forever in the name of getting them to sleep through. I like the phrase 'parent directed' which I think best describes how I've done things. The clock doesn't rule, but guides. The aim being to get the majority of food in the day, and sleep overnight, and that routine and structure provide predictability and security, and to know for example that you don't want to be feeding/rocking an older child to sleep, so you don't teach your younger child to be fed/rocked. I know ds doesn't always sleep through, but if he's making pathetic wimperings, or sucking his thumb, I don't go and feed him. Both dcs get tons of cuddles and love and physical contact, and if they cry, they are paid attention, but bedtime is bedtime.

Probably shouldn't have written all that after a glass of wine, given I'm prone to waffling at the best of times!

...and for donkeymum and your on-going problems.

Just caught up after not switching the computer on since Friday (probably a record time).

Have had a good weekend, we had some friends round on Saturday for Christmas dinner and opening of the presents we're not taking up to Scotland. DS1 got a garage and an easel so they were obviously quite big. He loves them both and we all had a really good day. It did feel like Christmas and I'm now excited about the real day. DS2 was a star and slept for 2 1/2 hours over lunch so that made life easier too- esp as we had a 6 week old baby there too who didn't sleep. After cooking a 3 course lunch, cleaning and tidying the house before and after and entertaining everyone all day I was shattered today and slept on the sofa for 2 hours this aft!

Can't remember who was posting about these things but there were a couple of things that jumped out at me to post about:
Giving occasional formula- I give ds2 1 or 2 bottles a week of formula, I was giving expressed milk but like you found I couldn't get enough for a full feed. I find that for the rest of the day that he's had the bottle my boobs feel fuller (obviously) but I don't think it makes much difference to the supply as his feeding pattern doesn't change afterwards. Only thing is he's sometimes more spluttery than usual for the next couple of feeds because he doesn't cope too well with the high power milk that he gets!

sleeping during the day- ds2 has about 45mins in the morning, 2-2.5 hours lunchtime and about 45 mins at 5ish. That's if he sleeps in his bed, if we're out and about he varies but still probably has about the same amount of sleep. He doesn't go to bed in the eve till about 8pm because we've found that fits in well with ds1's bedtime routine so he needs that teatime snooze. If he was going to bed at 7pm he could probably last without it. Also I like him having that sleep as it means I can get the tea made!

Just caught up after not switching the computer on since Friday (probably a record time).

Have had a good weekend, we had some friends round on Saturday for Christmas dinner and opening of the presents we're not taking up to Scotland. DS1 got a garage and an easel so they were obviously quite big. He loves them both and we all had a really good day. It did feel like Christmas and I'm now excited about the real day. DS2 was a star and slept for 2 1/2 hours over lunch so that made life easier too- esp as we had a 6 week old baby there too who didn't sleep. After cooking a 3 course lunch, cleaning and tidying the house before and after and entertaining everyone all day I was shattered today and slept on the sofa for 2 hours this aft!

Can't remember who was posting about these things but there were a couple of things that jumped out at me to post about:
Giving occasional formula- I give ds2 1 or 2 bottles a week of formula, I was giving expressed milk but like you found I couldn't get enough for a full feed. I find that for the rest of the day that he's had the bottle my boobs feel fuller (obviously) but I don't think it makes much difference to the supply as his feeding pattern doesn't change afterwards. Only thing is he's sometimes more spluttery than usual for the next couple of feeds because he doesn't cope too well with the high power milk that he gets!

sleeping during the day- ds2 has about 45mins in the morning, 2-2.5 hours lunchtime and about 45 mins at 5ish. That's if he sleeps in his bed, if we're out and about he varies but still probably has about the same amount of sleep. He doesn't go to bed in the eve till about 8pm because we've found that fits in well with ds1's bedtime routine so he needs that teatime snooze. If he was going to bed at 7pm he could probably last without it. Also I like him having that sleep as it means I can get the tea made!

whoops sorry, thought it had crashed and was glad I'd thought to do 'control c' but I obviously didn't need to