Nov 2008 - sleepless nights and exploding poo, dear oh dear now what do we do??

[Dozymare]

Sorry that is soooo crap but we needed a new thread!!!!!

Obs no offence taken
pinkali don't feel bad about it you have done fabulously well to keep it up for so long and you should be very proud of yourself.

Goodness, i haven't been on for a few days due to feeling utterly rubbish and having had a quick scan of the posts it looks like i am not alone... 9 weeks today and i think the shock of everything that happened at birth combined with my crippling exhaustion and all the worries the little one has been throwing at me along the way (including a stopping breathing episode on saturday night ... which has really done nothing for my quite overwhelming and consuming fear of sids) has all caught up with me. all i want to do is sob and sob my heart out but i can't, i have to stay jolly for ds1. I so hope i am not getting pnd again, really thought ihad escaped it this time. Hopefully its just the tiredness that is messing with my mind...

hm2j i experienced similar with my very refluxy ds1 and now again with my quite refluxy ds2 who also has laryngomalacia and although i am struggling with the unbelievable frustration of never having my hands free again, for me a large part is about expectation. So, certainly with ds1, as soon as i accepted the situation and stopped fighting it (so wearing a soft sling at home for example, to allow me to at least to empty the washing/make a sandwich etc) i felt a little less frustrated and fed up. and although it may not pass quickly it WILL pass at some point. But your ds3 does sound a little refluxy to me, the screaming, the poor sleep and the nighttime noises sound all too familiar. Not sure i have expressed myself too well, eloquence is not my forte on an hours sleep.

Happy belated birthday to pinkyminkee and i am so excited about receiving the blanky! I understand that slightly detatched feeling... although i am also getting huge pleasure from my boys and absolutely adore them both i don't feel completely 'there'. Yes, must be the tiredness.

Belated birthday wishes to pinkali too and sending you a hug at this emotional time... how amazing to have come as far as you have

Would like to write more to everyone i have missed, especially to those feeling equally knackered and down but i just can't think straight through the tiredness.

hi all - i think M has his day/nights confused a bit as he has been sleeping from 12-4pm, 7-10pm, 11-2/3am then seeming wide awake so I am now trying to keep him awake from 2-4pm (feeding and playing) but I was having trouble and then I found this website which woke him up a treat.

Just thought I'd share in case anyone else is interested.

sorry for grammer - am nak

I was thinking of buying a light that projects images on the ceiling for M. Does anyone have one of these, do you think they are any good?? If so is there one you can recommend?

Thanks!

Pinkali, sorry you are having to stop BFing , but as obs and pinky have has said you have done the very best for her to manage to express this long. I can only imagine how stressful that must have been. I was really disappointed when I couldn't feed DS1 as I had just assumed I would, but once we had swapped to formula and all the worry and stress faded away we never looked back.

And don't worry about the meet up, it's all kind of fallen a bit flat (maybe a wee bit too optimistic with so many poorly, unsettled babies and knackered mums)

Hey zonedout, choco, and pinkyminkee (hugs to you, feeling glum)

heartmum, hugs to you too. I am also feeling at a loss with bumba as my other two were in a much better routine by this time as well. DS was sleeping 6 hours at 2 weeks old and DD from about 4 weeks (certainly we went on holiday when she was 6 weeks old and she was sleeping from about 7pm until around 1am)

We have roughly followed GF feeding timings today, but it's all gone pear-shaped now as he fed from 2.30 until around 3.15 and has gone back to sleep and no amount of gentle prodding is waking him up. Not that I'm trying too hard, as I'm a firm believer in letting sleeping babies lie , and tbh with DD to look after it suits me that he is asleep. However, I realise I can't have it both ways; asleep in the day and at night.

Also, looking at GF, it kind of assumes you only have one child at home to look after and don't need to do things like school runs, outings to toddlers, and bed and bathtime for the older ones as well. Now if someone could write a book with all that in as well as newborn routines, I'd buy it!

Oh MN is so fab for this. Obviously I am not happy for any of us feeling down, but it is great to hear that I am not alone.
I too feel detached, at times, from DS, looking forward to the mornings and hearing my lovely DDs voice.
Today has been a good day, in regards DS is very settled, but then I worry that he has been on his bean bag all day and, again, I have not really interacted with him at all! I should be doing / wanting to do more with him? Shouldn't I?

I think it was choc who said her DS has started taking more feeds. DS has been the same for the past few days but, thankfully, he has been settling well after them. He has a couple of unsettled times during the night but I just let him get on with his groaning, knowing that he was fine. Again, I am bad aren't I? My parents pull those faces that say, I am saying nothing, when I tell them that I leave DS to it.

choco i was given a vtech one when ds1 was born... it is actually quite lovely (have recently fished it out again) but i have found with all these things that if they are happy and calm they will enjoy lying down watching and listening for a while but not a chance if screaming/hungry/wet/overtired etc

I would recommend the one we have although, from memory, they are a bit young to watch the images just yet as, iirc, they are quite small and if projected onto a ceiling, quite far away so not 'grabbing' enough for such wee ones. They will prob enjoy listening to the annoying lovely tunes though

Daisy I have the new GF book and it does have ways to manage the routines if you have other children / school runs etc but I think this is a new addition, if you're interested maybe worth buying it?

Also Daisy see the link I posted (if you do want to get you LO up) as it worked for M and he's just been a smiley happy awake baby for the last 45 mins! Which is lovely as yesterday we didn't have much daytime awake time to enjoy cause it was in the middle of the night when I didn't want to play!

hello all - very quick post from me as have lots to say but will be back on post 7pm when they are all tucked up....(fingers crossed)

daisy as I have always said, I don't believe that LO's can be in a perfect/strict routine before 6 weeks - let F sleep now but wake up for a split feed at 5pm follwed by play bath and then another feed. Try to get into bed by 7pm as this is what I do as Tiger does not follow the awake/sleep patterns. I let her go with the flow but keep her up 5-7pm to ensure that early evening sleep until 10/1030. I have fitted the routine in with school run/nursery run/housework no problem. As I have always said, I follow the feeding patterns and sleeping (although play this but by ear as also agree that at this age, babies should sleep when they need)

zonedout so sorry to hear about the breathing incident - what happened and why? Must be so, so worrying.....

pinkali you have done amazingly - as you may remember, having BF 2 DC's problem free for nearly a year each, I was expecting the same for Tiger - unfortuantely due to medical condition my milk didn't come in and so after perservering for 2 weeks I admitted defeat. Still very sad about it, but once you make that decision, it is best for your baby and you and obviously having tried everything..well done on that one.....

Choc I have the Tomy winnie the pooh lullaby light projector - might be vtech as well??? Not sure, but very good and relaxing at bedtime....

will be back on tonight - xx

hello all - very quick post from me as have lots to say but will be back on post 7pm when they are all tucked up....(fingers crossed)

daisy as I have always said, I don't believe that LO's can be in a perfect/strict routine before 6 weeks - let F sleep now but wake up for a split feed at 5pm follwed by play bath and then another feed. Try to get into bed by 7pm as this is what I do as Tiger does not follow the awake/sleep patterns. I let her go with the flow but keep her up 5-7pm to ensure that early evening sleep until 10/1030. I have fitted the routine in with school run/nursery run/housework no problem. As I have always said, I follow the feeding patterns and sleeping (although play this but by ear as also agree that at this age, babies should sleep when they need)

zonedout so sorry to hear about the breathing incident - what happened and why? Must be so, so worrying.....

pinkali you have done amazingly - as you may remember, having BF 2 DC's problem free for nearly a year each, I was expecting the same for Tiger - unfortuantely due to medical condition my milk didn't come in and so after perservering for 2 weeks I admitted defeat. Still very sad about it, but once you make that decision, it is best for your baby and you and obviously having tried everything..well done on that one.....

Choc I have the Tomy winnie the pooh lullaby light projector - might be vtech as well??? Not sure, but very good and relaxing at bedtime....

will be back on tonight - xx

THanks for the hugs- much appreciated.

twinkling I'm sure you are a lovely mum to both your children.

I think we are all suffering a bit from winter blues and tiredness, no?

choc I don'thave a projector thigmumy as such, but we do have a planet light from ikea that projects stars and planets around the room, and all the children love it.

I do rate the tiny love mobiles- DD1 still ahs the music box on her cot and the tunes are quite pleasant.(ebay specials, of course )

zonedout hope the blankie arrives soon, it is very snuggly!
I am a bit tempted by merrym's idea of a big one for meself.

lol at full sized blanket Pinky . Do you do cot sized at all, or just pram? Ours goes everywhere with us, it's great for tucking over his knees in the car seat..

dozy, I think we will just try and keep to the feeds at the minute and see where we go from there. although he has fed loads since he woke up at 4.30.

this is our teatime now so the GF routine just doesn't fit at all, but once DH is at work I'm going to feed the kids earlier and then DH and I will eat later, then kids will get leftovers the next day. I suppose we just need to adapt to having a new person in the house with their own needs and wants.

Thank you everyone for your kind words... I feel such a let down and have been out to buy some more Aptamil and nearly cried when at the till. I wanted to tell someone in there what I was doing (which sounds nutty). I am feeling so awful about this. I feel like I should wait until all my milk has gone but i know that as it decreases and I have to top up from with bottle after bottle of small amounts I will get myself into a bit of a state so the decision has been made.

Northern MEET UP I think maybe a New Year meet up should be a good idea. When everyone else has gone back to work it will give us something to look forward to?

Happy birthday to Pinky or sorry belated birthday!

I need to change my name to be festive but can't think of a name

Sleepwise, Esme is very good. We are on a routine of 7am 11 3 (bath, bottle, bed) 7pm, 11 and then 7 again. It seems to work and if she wants more in between she gets it.

She has started talking to me which is lovely.

I hope everyone is ok. I am sorry to be tied up in my own problems at the moment but hoep to be back on track shortly! xxxx

Pinkali You're not a let-down by any means so please don't think like that. You've done the best you can and many women would have given up bf weeks ago under such stressful circumstances. You've given Esme the best possible start in life as others have said so please take heart from that. It must have been an incredibly tough decision to make to stop bf, but it was beyond your control at the end of the day. Try to focus on the good stuff now, like Esme talking to you. It is lovely isn't it? E babbles away to me frequently now and has been smiling for a couple of weeks too - makes my heart melt!
Heartmum I'm having exactly the same problem you describe - as soon as I try to put E anywhere (Amby nest or car seat in desperation!) after she's fallen asleep during the day she wakes within 5 minutes and starts screaming. This has only started happening in the past week or so - did Z settle himself at any point or has he always been like this? I've taken to wearing E in a sling during the day just so that I can get things done. I've also been reading the NCT book of sleep but as Dozy has said before, there doesn't seem to be much point in starting bedtime routines etc before they're 6 weeks old so another few days to go yet. And there's nothing in the book about daytime sleeps! Don't think it's reflux in my case as E sleeps quite happily beside me at night (I really would like her to sleep in her cot though!) Hope our babies grow out of this phase soon!
Choc Thanks for that link, looks really good! Will try it tomorrow.
Sorry so many of us seem to be having such a hard time at the moment with sleepless nights, unsettled babies etc. The run-up to Christmas probably doesn't help either with the pressure of everything that needs to be done. It's quite overwhelming at times Hugs to all who need them.

Evening all

Thanks for the projector recommendations - I will have a look at them all on t'internet and maybe put an xmas present request with one of the grandparents!

HM2J and Cricri I also have trouble getting M to sleep in his moses basket in the day for his morning and afternoon naps - he is ok in there during longer sleeps (night and lunchtime) but for the others he either sleeps on me or I take him out in the sling (he also won't sleep in his pram )

M has done GF almost perfectly today and has had lots of awake time and lots of food so I really hope tonight is better.

Pinkali You mustn't be so hard on yourself, you have provided Esme with the most fantastic start in life and I agree with Pinky that feeding must not intefere with your relationship with your daughter. It is easy to get hung up on how we feed our infants, I have been there with ds1. Sending much love to you. HUGS

Rather than go through everyone individualy (would take forever as am OHT and trying to make soup), as it sounds like so many of us are starting to reach the peak of our tiredness and most of us are having some issue or other, I suggest a huge group hug. As sad as it makes me to know that so many feel this way, it makes me feel better to know it isn't just me.

Cricri The screaming/being really unsettled is fairy recent development, although he has always been a cuddlebug!. I was doubting the reflux thing as he does settle on hid side/back at night when in bed with me, but he does still gag/choke/cough when lying down. He is worse during the day strangely enough. However my best friends son had silent reflux and wasn't really affected at night either as proven by a probe in hospital.

Evening all

Owen is 10 days old now and an angel. I am bfing properly for the first time and really enjoying it.
He is feeding every 4.5 hours but is going 6 hours in the night so i feel like i am having some rest.

xmas shopping on saturday was a joy, owen fed well considering we were out and i had never fed in public before and we managed after 9 hours to get all the xmas shopping finished, thank god.

hey all - am back....all quiet in dozy household and dinner on...this is why I love routine

I think we should set up a seperate thread for those of us who want to follow a routine, I know for me and my family, if we are not in a routine, it all goes tits oop!however, totally appreciate that it is not for everyone but having had 12 weeks hell with DS1 (constantly on me feeding/colicy at night/inability to sleep anywhere unless on me or DH/awake most of the night and only little snoozes in the day) and the minute I introudced some sort of structure, it totally changed our lives. (we had one!) To get 2-3 hours every lunchtime to myself, plus all kids in bed by 7pm are my driving forces......I just structure our days around that....

I can vividly remember when DS was about 9 weeks old, he had been constantly feeding/crying all day and when DH came home, I literally gave him the baby, and broke down in tears...He then spent 4 hours walking up and down trying to settle DS singing oasis songs.....(didn't work!) We also then had to go through controlled crying to get him to sleep somewhere other than on me....not nice....

anyway, I could waffle about the benefits vs negatives forever, so shall stop

On to other things.........

Pinkali as you will see from my earlier post I am totally wehre you are concerning breast feeding. I keep telling strangers (literally) why I am bottle feeding rather than breast. I really have an issue with it and feel very cheated that i couldn't breastfeed tiger. Especially as I had no probs with DS1 and ds2. I need to move on and accept that it can't/won't happen but at the moment, feel very sad/angry/cheated

tegan and hana you both sound as if you are doing very well indeed - well done you 2!

pinky I am with daisy on the blanket front - ours goes everywehre and we all love it! As you know I want to order one for BF who is due PFB in Jan - can we use the same jungle print????

DH in now - hope you all have good nights

DM x

Evening all - it was DH's official first day back at work today although he was working from home - hence why I have not been able to get on the computer all day!!

Ladybuzz wow, J is a star sleeping through already - am v DS1 went 7pm-7am from about 4 weeks (he never took to the 'dreamfeed' concept) so I have been very spoiled in that respect and I can already tell that Sam is not going to follow suit!

Obs so sorry you are feeling like sh*t and it sounds like your DH is being a bit insensitive....what is he expecting??? Life to just return to normal?

Pinkali please please don't feel bad about your decision! You have given Esme the best best possible start in life - even more admirable considering all the barriers you have had to overcome. Most women would have given up weeks ago. Now just keep chanting happy mummy = happy baby to yourself and take the time to relax and enjoy Esme!

Tegan you managed 9 hours of shopping really?? Am astounded and extrememly impressed by that!!

Northern meet up - I would definitely be up for a New Year one - it seems much more practical and I agree with Daisy that it was perhaps a bit ambitious to think we could do it before Christmas!

Pinky I am also feeling a little detached from things I love Sam to bits and he is so easy to look after (only cries when he is hungry, feeds and settles straight away, generally settles himself to sleep during day and night) so it is not him - it is DS1. I know I keep going on about it but his behaviour is really starting to get me down . He has always been such an easy child to parent (although a tad on the overactive/boisterous side me and DH are now at a loss as to handle this whinging, pathetic little boy we seem to have acquired these last few weeks. He just mopes around whinging (today it was because he got the tiniest bit of water on his socks and wanted them changing fgs) most of the day and it is really tiring and testing our patience to the limit. I actually look forward to Tuesdays when he starts his 4 days at nursery which is as I should be enjoying the days I spend with him - not wishing them away. I just feel like such a crap mum to him and don't know how to handle it.

Also, Dozy (or any other GF followers) - just a quick question. I am trying to sort Sam's feeds out - like you, I just do the feeding schedule and let everything else settle round that. However, I am struggling to start the day at 7am as Sam is usually awake for a feed around 5-5.30ish which means he doesn't need another feed until 8 which throws the whole day out - any thoughts on how I can get round this as it seems like a vicious circle

Sorry, this is a bit of a me me me post aswell - just feeling a bit down tbh - guess this is the 3-week blues hitting me now.

Well, I got DS fed and asleep by about 7.15 . whether he will stay like that until 10 is another thing though.

What today has shown me though is that he is roughly following the GF routine by himself, so either he is very clever and read the book already , or else she wrote her routine around babies naturally ocurring body clock!

I am really dreading DH going back to work next week.

Here's to better nights all round.

hana, I'm not a routine lover, and wish I didn't need one, but with two other DCs it's more a case of the baby having to fit in with everyone else. Obviously no-one has bothered to make that fact known to my little man

Ah well, that lasted

He is back on DHs lap......wind that he can't get up or down.

ceebee in the GF book she suggests the following feeding structures to ensure baby feeds well at 7am:

If baby wakes:

• before 4am give them a full feed
• between 4am and 7am give one breast (half feed) and the second at 7.30

Treat these like night feeds - I think she means that if you only give him a small feed at these times then he should wake up sooner wanting more.

Hope this helps!

She obviously hasn't met my DS ChocO; if I try and put him down before he has decided he's done, there's hell to pay.