September 08 - Just ladies with babies

[pacita]

I thought I'd start a new thread before we run out of space...

jenpet re the HV - at least I am independent and resourceful enough to ignore her advice and go elsewhere for help, but younger or less confident mums would definitely cave in.
No problem with your GF comments! I haven't read the thing so I am in no position to criticise, and there must be some good stuff in it or it wouldn't be so popular. It was just distressing to see what a negative effect it had had on my friend, totally wiping out her confidence.

hello again peeps.

I re-read GF the other day to see if it might look any more useful now A is nearly 10 weeks. And concluded it's bollocks if you've got my baby. All the advice on routines seems based on being able to keep your baby awake after feeds/whenever - but there's no way to wake A up when he doesn't feel like it!! It's very cute seeing a baby swinging in the air while fast asleep...

He seems to have two different routines - one involves going out like a light after a feed round 7pm, and then you can't get any more food into him until 11ish. Then he wakes at 3,5,7, and by 8 or 9 I give up and get up.
The other one is feeding at 7, and most of the evening, refusing to sleep until around midnight, when he then sleeps until 5am and then settles again until 9.
The latter is hard in the evening but I get a decent amount of sleep. Not that I have any idea how to get A to pick one or the other, either. And having said that, he'll probably do something totally different tonight...

thank god we had a better night, i decided not to wake elli to start his bath boob and bed routine, abd he didn't wake unti 10.30, by which time i decided that it was too late for a bath, so goes to show i cant keep a routine going for more than 1 day lol!
anyway got him to bed and he fell straight asleep and woke up at midnight with his tummy pain which didn't last long and after a feed he fell asleep again, he woke at 4,5 and 6 for a feed but i didn't mind, he went back to sleep at 7 and only woke up at 10.30. so i feel much more refreshed and alert. i even got dressed and put make up on to see my friend! I would normally get dressed but the make up is usually optional!

Those of you who ate breastfeeding - have any of your boobs started to get closer to normal size? There seems to be more room in my bras but I can't remember how long it takes for them to shrink a bit. I DESPERATELY need another bf bra but I might wait a bit if they're shrinking!!

jenpet i'm with you on GF, used it last time and going with it again. The key is just to use it as guidelines and not to worry if it doesnt work. We're still far from being on schedule- some days he does her timings perfectly- and the evening routine is a non starter at the moment as he likes to feed constantly between 5 and 8! But if ds1 is anything to go by, by 3 to 4 months we'll be there

Better night last night, slept from half 1 to half 5, longest yet!

ninja - I've found mine are up and down still (ds 10wo). One week they seem to be back to normal, the next they are full and bigger all the time. I've got the Bravado bras that look like a sports bra, rather than ones that have cups, so there's room for growth and shrinkage.

When my boobs are massive during growth spurt feeding frenzys I wear my soft cup night time bra all day as it's more comfortable.

Ninja If i havent't fed for a few hours(7 hours last night) mine are like barrage balloons. Usually all morning till early evening they are large but if she is having her feed fest from 5pm onwards then they seem to shrink and go all floppy. They definitely feel smaller then usual then.
I would stick with the same size for now as when they start going longer on a night you don't want to feel all squashed in.
A soft cup night bra is really comfortable but i find i lose my breast pads in them and then leak everywhere, even the sticky ones.

plusonemore Guidelines absolutely! The one thing I always keep in mind is where she says "it takes a long time to establish a routine" which is so true. Sam is 12 weeks (and 2 days!) so I think that is why I am seeing him settling into a better pattern...things like settling down to the "bedtime feed" in the dark, in his bedroom, with no talking etc I think have made quite a difference. Do what works! I've come to think as well that a lot depends on the temperament of the Mum & the baby. I'm very much a "plan ahead & lets get organised" kind of person, and both boys have responded well to that sort of parenting (so far lol) and it suits us to be a bit more routined...

ninja I would hang on for a bit & see what happens - did I read somewhere that the milk changes composition to suit the babies growth needs too? that would surely change the shape & size of your boobs as well? I've found if I wear a feeding bra to sleep in it is causing blocked milk ducts, so consequently I end up washing milky sheets almost every morning.. how long is everyone intending to continue BF'ing for btw? I enjoy it, but wonder constantly how long to go on for (usually in the morning before the 1st feed when I'm sat on the loo with milk dripping onto my legs!! tmi, sorry!)

T has been perfect baby today. Think my MIL thinks I'm mad with my hysterics over the past couple of days! He had a lovely hour's nap in his cot this morning, and we took him out in the pram at lunch and he's still asleep in it. So nice and relaxing compared to the past couple of days.

I'm trying not to get too relaxed though, as I'm sure it's worse when I think he's back on track and then he has a bad patch - best to assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised.

pacita lol at you following my sleep crises! I am like that with everyone on here, waiting to see what the next step is for their babies.

ponymum I know people who've gone mad with GF too. It suits me brilliantly because I like having something really concrete to aim for, but don't melt down if it doesn't happen (I attribute my meltdown over the past 3 days to growth spurt/missing a nap and getting overtired rather than GF).

Jenpet, I was going to write a note saying that your baby has naturally fallen into a GF routine, then I noticed your comment to ponymum and I see you're following it too! There are more of us routiners out there than I had first realised .

Glad the skin's better pacita, I was worried for you when you weren't sure whether there was any need for antibiotics for one so small but perhaps some docs do know what they're talking about!

hopefully I really hope things get consistent for you again. My ds was waking at 2:30 and 5:30 every night, but a couple of nights ago we put him in his own room. The first night I heard him stir at 2:30 and next thing I knew it was 4am. Last night he slept til 5:30, his longest sleep yet! Then I had to wake him at 7:45. I think I had def been picking him up too quickly at 2:30 coz he was right next to me, but obviously he just comes into a light sleep at that time.

NC before our boiler broke I used to bath ds several times a day to wake him!

ponymum I really feel for your friend who was made miserable by GF. That's why I think it really is a personality thing. You know how much I love it but I actually recommended one of my friends not to read it. And it is a shame its written in such a confrontational style, totally unnecessarily so.

Well we are still without shower and boiler, but, praise the lord, dh has just been told the size of his christmas bonus and it covers the cost of the new boiler. Happy christmas me...

Ponymum - Your experience with your HV is pretty much what I have come to expect, sadly

Anyway, AFAIK, bf babies do tend to drop down the centile charts a bit at about 10-12 weeks because bm isnt as fattening as formula.....However, I am sure SL or Foxy can put you right on that rubbish advice and tell you if I am right or not.

Re: routines....having already had one baby (who is now 5) I am totally against these sort of books on a personal level as they made me feel really inadequate when ds1 was tiny.

However, I know people who swear by these sorts of routines because it was important to them to have their children in bed by the same time every night and have set nap times etc etc....If you find it useful then follow it, but for gods sake dont beat yourself up if your baby decides that they dont want to eat or nap at a set time of day!! Motherhood is hard enough without putting so much extra pressure on yourself and your baby.

OK, getting off my soapbox now!!!

Toby has a cough He is a velcro baby today.....

I have just (I think) put some pics of ds on my profile page.

Hello all!

Hearing about other people's routines is so useful!

I am finding that I've got the 'you know who's book" sliding depression "I'm totally inadequate I just can't do this routine thing at all".

But I think some of the princilpes
Self settling
more sleep at night
less in the day
being really full at the end of the day etc etc

are all good practice but I just can't get past the screaming in her moses basket. She clearly has the wrong sleep associations but I don't know how to change them without a screamfest! I can't seem to find out how much yelling and for how long is considered 'sleep training' and how much is considered mental cruelty!! Any ideas?

DD will settle but can cry really scream off and on for over an hour and sometimes I can bear it and sometimes I just can't!

carrieon - great to see some photos of your ds, and your dd is such a smiley girl isn't she?

Thamks becaroo about the weight thing. Yes, I would love to hear from star or foxy about whether I should be concerned or not. I am trying to be confident but tbh I actually feel a bit inadequate underneath it all. To the point that I am having a feedathon today to try to give dd more milk - I am putting her on the breast whenever she looks vaguely interested.

I also wonder whether the problem is that she isn't absorbing all she is eating. She poos A LOT, every nappy change. I was a very skinny child and was diagnosed with failure to absorb, i.e. most food went straight through me (sadly outgrown, I could do with a bit of this now!). Might she be the same? Or am I worrying too much over a few ounces on a chart?

becaroo and ponymum I'm sure thats right about the weight charts and bf babies tending to drop down a bit, I think someone once told me those charts were designed for ff babies and so don't always work as well for bf babies.

We had another good evening last night with ds2 in bed for most of it. He then woke an hour earlier during the night though than usual and then at 6.30 this morn instead of his usual 7.30. Had 1 1/2 hour sleep in bed this morn though so that was good. But then woke after 45 mins at this sleep and is now sleeping on me. So he's still quite up and down but is making progress. He is nearly 12 weeks and it has just been this week that he's been sleeping longer himself, I think someone else said their baby has started this too at about the same age.

I'm so baffled between contradictory advice I get all the time from all sides:

1] Don't worry she's awfully young, don't beat yourself up, go with the flow etc etc

2] Get her into a routine now, however painful, or your life will be shot away untii that lass is at 2ndary school!

I just want to be somewhere manageable in the middle of these 2 extremes!

I'd like her to have a routine but I can't face the blood curdling screams! And she screams even when she's, fed, dry, tired/not overtired. She just seems to know that it's a battle of wills and that seems give her fire in a belly to carry on shouting however long it takes!

W

Today's tip: M&S have 20% off everything today only. Get on the website if there's anything you need. I have just bought some jeans, t shirts and a sleeping bag for dd. (And use code FREEDELV to get free delivery and returns!) hth

Quick Q ladies is 37.1 a high temperature and should i give calpol. She had her 1st jab today

ipanemagirl - you sound a bit like me. I have two very good friends who did GF and were really happy with it. I always thought I'd do it too but I think it made me depressed a bit. N will self-settle now sometimes with no crying and if overtired with up to 10 mins crying. He's 11 weeks. What's annoying is that he'll wake up after 30-45 minutes and then cry on and off until I get him. I know he needs more sleep because when I get him he's still yawning and as soon as he's in the living room he's rubbing his eyes etc. Just recently he's been really cranky in teh evenings and struggling to make it to 7pm so I'd love to make him sleep more.

TBH we have a good routine at night and have had for a couple of months now so I'd be happy to just go with the flow during the day if he'd just 'drop off', but he wont and unless I actively 'make' him nap he can go the whole day without sleeping. It drives me mad.

plusonemore you say that by 4 months you expect your baby will settle into the routine, what is the routine now? What is and is not happening? What do you have problems with and how do hyou deal with them? Hope you don't mind me asking, it's just I'm happy to persevere wit the routine if I thought it would be successful one day. Can't help but feel it might all be a waste of time.

Finally (sorry for long post) N wont take a dummy but does like sucking and chewing on things. Does anyone give there baby anything else to self-soothe with? I know some people give their babies a muslin but I wouldn't be happy to leave that in his cot with him overnight in case he suffocated on it.

BBx

debs75 Calpol say 37.2 is a high temp, NHS direct say 38. (Should I admit that I gave dd a dose the night of her jabs without taking her temp first? )

When S had his jabs yesterday the GP said give medicine if the temperature goes over 38.5...

C had her jabs today and the dr recommended giving med when we got home and before bed, regardless of temp. Even gave me a prescription for it, which surprised me

Ladies, I'm at my wit's end. D has had a really bad day. He has been been grizzly, whimpering and crying all day. I have been unable to put him down and he seems to feed every hour. I have unsuccessfully tried to go out twice today and failed. He wouldn't even settle in the sling, which generally works wonders (kari-me). He did a big poo in the morning, which was probably making him uncomfortable, but why oh why was he so miserable the rest of the day? He is generally quite a contented child, but today the only place where he would sleep is in the sofa, next to me, if I carefully laid him down after a feed. Is that bad?

I would really like to adopt a loose routine, but so far have only achieved a night time routine between 7 and 8 involving bath, massage and feed (sometimes he is put in the cot while asleep, so not very GF). I am very happy to feed him on demand, but I would love for him to nap more during the day, and the only way that I can get structured naps is if I put him in the pram or sling and go out.

Any tips for better napping?

And after a day of CONSTANT feeding, will my boobs be empty, and am I in for a night of pain and constant feeding too? Glub. I really can't cope with another night like last night... I am so bloody tired.

Maybe this is the 7 weeks growth spurt if such a thing exists.

carrieon interesting what you say about your DS coming into a lighter sleep. When my mother comes down she's going to have him in with her for the night so DP can get some sleep, and since she won't leap up at the first wimper it will be interesting to see if he goes a bit longer then (we're not going to try to mess with anything before then, so he may not). Love the pics of your DS and DD!

ipanemagirl I think basically that with all the advice, you just have to decide to go with what feels right at the moment, and worry about whether there are problems later. If a routine will make your life easier now, try for that, and if being a bit more 'baby led' or whatever the phrase is suits you now, do that. Personally, I like a routine, but I didn't suffer to get DS into it particularly - I eased him towards it over a couple of weeks, and as I have amply demonstrated over the past 48 hours, it's not 100% foolproof!

ponymum wow, the website has the discount too? I thought it was an instore thing? I went in the shop and couldn't face thge queues so I left again!

BBaby I had a couple of days of T waking up after 45 mins, and when I did I gave myself a 15 minute slot in which to resettle him (reasoning that if he was hungry rather than tired, he wouldn't fade away in 15 mins, but it gave me a reasonable chance of settling him) and even if he fell asleep on me for that time, at least he was getting in the habit of taking a longer sleep. Now when he goes down for his lunchtime nap he will (usually) sleep for a good 2hrs, sometimes 2hrs 30.

Pacita poor you. I reckon when they're like that it's just not worth trying to be clever - if next to you is where he will sleep, then let him until you are sure that at least he's not overtired. Once that's solved you can worry about where he's settling again.
Wouldn't worry about putting him in the cot awake - during the day I put T in the cot while still just about awake, but during the night I wait until he is well and truly unconscious, or he just wakes straight up and has to be completely resettled again.