July 2008 - Living in the Twilight Zone of never quite enough sleep to be compus mentus

[libralady]

Just thought I'd better set up another thread as the old one is just about to run out.

Just dropping in to say hi and catch up. Disney, glad Sam on the mend and at looking after 4 kids on your own Minkus.

Have just had my much awaited booze order delivered - 6 white, 4 red. Mmm hmmm. Sound like an alcy but you would not believe what a pain it is to get round here and the price - i won't tell you cos you'll choke. So, a nice glass of nz sauv blanc awaits me.

The boys' Godfather is out this week which is lovely. Settling in more each day now and looking forward to trick or treat for the kids on friday - there are 60 of them going round the compound and I'm dressing them up. Then there's a barbecue for the grownups later.

Just keeping an eye on the Logan for signs that he wants food but he still has the tongue thrust reflex in place so I'm guessing it'll be nearer the 26 weeks than the 16. He's still not going through the night and my plans to let him just start going through naturally and drop his night feeds as a when have gone to the wall - am about to reintroduce the dream feed as the 1am and then 4am wakenings are driving me bananas.

Anyway, wine is calling me..ttfn

Jadey,
i hope the increased infacol and teat help.

CilC has a good point about the baby rice, if it is still colic making her cry then it won't help.
I know it's difficult to figure out when the colic has previously stopped, if they are crying because of colic or increased appetite.
Im not suprised Cilc's husband gave baby rice a go, i know you can get desperate trying to figure it out, and will try anything!! hold on in there, once the colic has passed it gets sooo much easier!! I used to dread jacks feeds as his little face looked in so much pain with colic, now its smeared in food (me too half the time) with a smile!!!

Hiya everyone

Im not going to give her baby rice and wouldnt without insruction of hv.
Ive heard so many different mothers in other forums too that say they started their lo at 12 weeks and was fine where others waited longer. It seems its more a case of when baby is ready to me rather then doing what they all say.
I have heard in some cases that hvs have adviced some moms to wean their babies a little early due to what ever reason..reflux or being hungry babies etc.

I dont think Grace is ready to be weaned in my opioion..she certainly dont watch us eat. Well sometimes but i think thats coz she likes the fork lol

I already changed her teat 2 weeks ago to 3 mt one and she was choking on a few occasions at first and i kept having to put her back on the 1 mt teats and try 3mt again few days later coz the flow was coming out way too fast for her but she has in the last week became use to it now.
She seems happy so i spose thats the main thing..im pritty sure she wont let herself starve at end of day and will eat if she has too.
She taking in about 25ozs a day at mo so dropped a few oz but its better then nothing i spose. We had this problem before but i changed her milk then and it worked a treat & she was fine untill nw that is. I dont think its the milk brand tho so not going to change it.

She is a loony toon. sitting on her daddys lap watching tv and smiling and talking to the tv and almost laughing at it.

Thx for everyones advice

xxx

xxx

ar jadey you sound so relaxed and chilled, really in tune with grace. so nice to hear. Louis likes the tv too, especially backyardigans on nick jnr!

with ds1 and weaning, i waited until i knew his routine (the one he set for himself). But with ds2 there doesn't look like he's going to set one for himself so guess I'm gonna have to help him achieve it- and thats going to take a while I suppose so another reason for me to not think about weaning really until that's established ok. He seems so little in comparison with ds1 at the same age- not just size but in his habits. He's still a "little" baby in my eyes rather than one charging up the development charts like his big brother was. Maybe that's just me though wanting to keep my last baby a real baby for as long as I can!

I got my period back yesterday
with DD1 it came back 4 weeks after lochia finished, DD2 it was 11 months, shows you how much DD2 fed. I was told that if you have more than 4 hours between feeds it can trigger ovulation and then periods. Probably explains why I have been so tired and grumpy recently.

B is a little TV junky too and she is so nosy likes to know whats going on and be in the thick of things. She does watch us eat but she watches us do everything, she loves to watch her sisters running around the room.

Re: early weaning theres a million threads on here about BLW and the reasons to wait until 6 months etc, I'm just too lazy to do purees and baby rice, I'll wait until she can feed herself or probably more likely one of her sisters feeds her, I always remember finding a raisin in DD2's nappy when she was about 3 months, DD1 must have given her it

No advice re colic/teats etc but I have 2 friends both with DSs both had loads of problems with keeping milk down/reflux/growth and I think they both weaned early and took them off bottles completely at about 9 months and they have never looked back.

smudge123 - hello and welcome

oh teething forgot to say that a dentist told me that the most painful part of teething is before the tooth comes through, the tooth moves through and up the gums and this can be a while before it pokes through, so there maybe no signs of teeth but can be painful

morning ladies!
lovely - a sunny monday with no appointments today!

i like to do social things with Elodie but sometimes a few quiet days can get her back on track really well. i tried to "re-Gina" her a bit last week - just really roughly following feeds and sleeps and it sorted her out a lot. She's going down well for naps - even lunchtime and sleeping until 6 or 7 at the moment, with an unsuccessful dream feed at 10.30 or 11 (doesn't take much).

the best thing i ever did was get rid of the dummy and rocking to sleep - my back is so much better and she sleeps well and wakes up all happy.

on sat i went out to an indoor market thing with friends and bought her loads of nice cheap clothes from a lady selling off all her things. She had loads of designer labels for kids - some nice like Kenzo pram suits are sweet but Burberry jumpers for kids? Yuck . . .

but we ended up staying all afternoon and evening at my friends place and elodie just went to bed in her carry cot from the pram! glad she is easy going like that - i remember being dragged around to parties by my parents - me and my brother in our pajamas in the spare room, while they partied!

sk - i got my period too but wasn't very proper. still, its weird to think that my body is ready to go again!
feel a bit guilty about tv watching as sometimes let E watch baby einstein online or just tv but did some research last night and seems like its not a great idea, particularly because her language development may already be slowed down because she will have to learn danish when she starts nursery.

the whole weaning debate is interesting. to be honest, i don't really want to deal with it for a while yet and she isn't showing all the classic signs so i think i can bury my head in the sand for a while longer (especially if you count in the fact that she was a little bit premature).

her hair has really grown in! - check out the pics ;)

i saidboo sounds like you had a good time at butlins we are going for xmas this year
gilly im sorry things are tough for you right now i know how hard pnd is i had it with samuel and am on meds now and ok but without the meds who knows
all i remember was i didnt eat wanted to sleep all the time
but interestingly i was at the docs last week and he said at 30 wks pregnant women hit a natural high energetic nesting etc....
but at 3mths post birth we all hit a low it could explain why all of us got a bit weepy recently
gilly i have no family here either most of them are in the USA and i have no parents and like you said you are ok till the baby goes to sleep then youve had enough
but its ok to cry and be sad and like you said you are counting the days till you move a big hug for you you are doing so well and a lovely mummyjust be kind to yourself for a whie xx

Hhahahaaa

Tjuice - that is the best laugh I've had in ages! She is adoreable

Are we talking about routine? Aidan has been pretty all over the place lately. 15 weeks and I'm pretty sure he's over 16 lbs now. He won't take a dummy but we sure do rock and feed him back to sleep. Thing is the last few weeks he's been really fitfull in his sleep, throwing his legs up and rolling his head about but his eyes are still closed. Of course DH comes over and changes his nappy, waking him up crying and I feed him back to sleep. UGH!! Is he too cold? Our room stays 16-18C and he's got a longsleeve bodysuit, sleepsuit, and sleepbag. Is he feeling "penned in" in his basinet that I know he is too big for? We have to wait until the weekend to get a mattress for his cot.

SK - I hate it, but we're going to re-home one of our cats. While Aidan was blissfully sleeping through the night..our cat was howling all hours of the night and trying to knock open the bedroom door with her head! DH ended up sleeping on the couch to get her to quiet herself. Not working.

About weaning..my mom keeps hinting that maybe the baby thinks its time. Aidan keeps chomping on my left nipple and pulling back his head while he is latched on. WTF? OWWiiee!! He does watch me eat..but I still would like to leave it a bit longer. He does seem much hungrier lately..but we decided to wait until he's doubled his birth weight and just give him a bit to taste. (head in sand)

There was something else..but I forgot due to lack of coffee..thanks for letting me warble.

Gilly, sorry to hear you are having such a hard time with PND. I have no epxerience and so can offer no advice, have you tried local mumsnet? I am sure you could find someone to pound the streets with you at 5:30pm it might help to have company.

Donutmum, when growing up in Kuwait alchol was forbidden (not a problem for me obv) so one of my earliest memories is of the house stinking from the smell of homebrew and dustbins (clean!) full of home-made wine!

Minkus - I am sure you have already tried this but have you tried keeping him in his cot and just using a dummy to soothe. Alex still wakes 2-3 times a night but at least goes back in his cot quietly after a feed, can't imagine how exhausted you must be.

TJuice - you use GF the same way as us to get some structure but still have a life, it it gets too awry a few days back on GF gets us back on track. A still isn't sleeping thru the night but we have dropped the dreamfeed as he wasn't really interested and still waking up 1-2amish anyway. Have you tried just dropping this feed?

Welcome smudge and jadey.

Weaning is such a hot topic!! Personally I am hoping to wait until the 6months as I would like to try BLW, mainly because like SK I am too lazy to do purees. However I also think sometimes signs can be misread, Alex was watching my toast very intently the other day but I think it was just because it was moving from face to plate so rather than me misread the signs I am just going to wait until told it is ok

disney - thanks so much for sharing your feelings. I didn't know there was things would drop off at 3 months but that explains a lot. Obviously I'm in the same situation you are with my family being in the states and all but certainly haven't had to endure the challenges that you have. In my experience, it's not as much depression as feeling really anxious about going back to work soon, and trying to sell the flat and unjustly terrified of someone breaking into our flat at night while I am alone. It's really rediculous, I know, but I don't feel safe. I've not even been out of the flat all weekend and it's starting to really worry me as these thoughts can become cyclical.

what did I type? "I didn't know there was things would drop off at 3 months but that explains a lot" What I meant was I didn't know that at 3mths post birth we all hit a low.

where's that coffee?

mcchesers - Poppy does the looking around and fidgeting while still attached to the nipple! It's a sign of nosiness not readiness to wean! Thirty years ago babies were weaned at 12 weeks, so it is hard for our parent's generation to believe a baby can wait for 6 months. I tried Poppy in her cot last night on the theory she might sleep better with more space. She still woke up at 1:30am and slept the rest of the night in my bed.

Morning all,

That 3 month 'downer' makes sense, when I had DS1 the HV said you get baby blues at 3 days, 3 weeks and 3 months, also can happen at about 9 months again. It makes sense, had a BIG falling out with DH yesterday and I told him to move out! luckily he just realised I was being completely unreasonable in my argument (I basically felt fat, ugly and boring, We used to be quite sociable and now I'm not, but he still is, and on Saturday night he was out with a crowd of 'bright young things, all childless and all attractive, just felt abit of it all, and spent all of Sat night and Sun morning in tears ) It's all alright now and it's our 5 year wedding anniversay tomorrow so I hope he does something nice to surprise me!

Sorry about that long 'me' bit.

Hope you are all doing OK today

Tjuice Great pic, I spat my coffee out in a huge 'gaffaw' when I saw it!

As for weaning, I too CANNOT be arsed with purees and baby rice yet, so Sam can wait! Would really like to try BLW, so going to get a book from the library next time I venture into town.

Gotta go Tesco's has just arrived to re-stock my (very) bare cupboards!

Hi All,

TJuice- Love the pic very funny!

Donutmum- Hope you enjoyed your wine Hic!

Jodie- Sorry the hear about your fall out with DH
Hope youve been dropping enough hints about Tomorow

I too was another one in tears last night.
I was soo tired after our hectic and sleepless weekend and so glad to get to bed. However Abigail had other ideas! Gave her the 11pm dreamfeed as normal but when we went up she was wide awake. Fed her but she was still awake and didnt go off till about 12.30.. I was so tired and everytime I thought shed gone off she would wake again. I was crying as I just wanted to sleep!!
Thankfully DH did the next feed at 4.30.
After the next feed at 7.30 she was awake again for about an hour then went back off till 10- so so did I! Much needed.

Abigails sleep is becoming abit of a pain at the mo. Im hoping shes not going to start waking for her night feed now .
Before we did the dreamfeed she would feed at about 11pm then go down to bed till about 5/6 am.
With the dreamfeed she goes down at 8, then dreamfeed at 11 then through till about 5/6. So the bedtime was much better for her as she was less grumpy. However lately shes been waking nearer 3/4am. Sometimes she doesnt take much of her dreamfeed and others she drains the bottle... but either way it doesnt seem to make much diference.
Im not sure whether to try without the dreamfeed on night and see what happens...Im guessing with bed at 8 she will wake about 1am. But then will she go back off or want to play! Arrgghh!

Sorry for that ramble girls! My peroid is due and Im feeling grumpier than normal at the mo and less patient when it comes to nighttime wakings!

Def agree with the 3mth lull!

Well at least its sunny here, Bloody cold but Sunny!

Just had a look and that's a fabulous photo TJuice.

Please can we have photos taken of the LOs in their halloween costumes posted up this Friday. I KNOW they aren't toys or dolls but sometime's it's just too funny to resist.

libra- of course... Abigail has hers all ready

Thanks for the lovely words everyone, especially Disney, I know you have so much more to contend with looking after your brood, I had no idea your LO had really been going through it in the last few months as I've been away so long. I hope he and the rest of you are getting on well.
I'm battling every day to get Nate to take his naps, he gets soooooo cranky and just fights it. He is the windiest little boy and I suspect this is what is waking him up after 45 mins and he really isn't getting the restorative sleep he needs during the day. I can be trying to wind him for an hour before it all comes out!
Had another bite my lip incident with the clueless in laws yesterday. SIL took him so that DH and I could get an hour or so together. We told her he was due a feed at 2.30pm, we went round there at 4.30 and they'd only just tried to feed him, by which time he'd been screaming for over 2 hours and worn himself out and wouldn't take it. My MIL was baffled as to why he was crying, I noticed he was in a different outfit, turns out he was not only hungry, but wet through too. I wanted to strangle them all. I mean who in their right mind leaves a child to scream for that long? No common sense at all. Makes me not want to leave him with any of them but don't want to cut off my nose despite my face. Written instructions next time I think.
Oh well, there goes Nate screaming again after only 20 mins of sleep. I love him so much but he's such a grumpy guts in the daytime, we get very little quality time together.

gilly are you bf or ff

gilly - have you tried carrying nate upright in a sling? The wind can work its own way up and baby finds it very calming. If poppy is having a cranky day I keep her in it and let her nap while
I potter about.

gilly - am totally shocked at your SIL, did it not occur to them he was hungry? Usually it's the oppposite way round relatives feeding them every time they have a moan. I think you are going to have to be very stern with them next time. Don't know what to suggest re the wind I have been lucky in that my 3 have always been one burp and it's out. I will say though that this is a hard time, it does get a lot easier once they are taking more interest in whats around them, playing with toys etc you sound so down I just want to give you a hug and tell you it gets easier.

libra - a friend gave me the cutest little pumpkin outfit fo Bethany, DD1 never had one and DD2's is too big. DD1 wants to be a Dalmatian so I was out sourcing white tights and a white top (difficult) and a black marker pen so I can add spots (she has an outfit already but needs something underneath) DD2 wants to be Sully from Monsters Inc have ordered the outfit hope it comes in time.

pigley - it's so hard re sleep, although Bethany usually wakes she goes straight back to sleep again probably as I feed her lying down, jsut try not to disturb/stimulate her as much as possible at night thats all I can suggest.

Jodie - I agree must be something in this 3 month low, I'm feeling very down and alone right now too. DP is doing my head in about lack of relations too, he thinks the minute the DDs are in bed we should be at it but all I want is some peace and a cup of tea. I do feel sorry for him but sometimes want to shout leave me alone I had a baby 3 months ago, have 3 under 5 and am constantly knackered

mcchesers - B does that as well, throws her head back to smile at me with my nipple still in her mouth, all I'm saying is what until they do it with teeth! I agree it nosiness, B can hardly hold her head still or sit up I think theres no way she's ready for food, it's like her body's too wee still. When I had DD1 everyone was saying "oh when you starting solids yadda yadda yadda" and that I would never be able to feed a baby on milk for 6 months, now they don't bother. Agree with our mothers generation being so eager to wean, apparently I was having mashed potatoes and mince (not gravy) at 6 weeks old and I was a 34 week premmie double and was on cows milk at 3 months! Oh how things have changed.

Re the cats wish I could rehome mine they drive me insane, I know it's not their fault but I don't have the same feelings for them as I once had pre DC, I see them as just something else to clean up after, they make loads of mess and as you say loads of noise too, can't shut a door over as they scratch up the carpet and ruin it. Two of them are 11 now so it wouldn't be fair to rehome them.

Tjuice - what a brilliant picture, Elodie is so cute as well. I think the TV is OK in small doses when you need to get something done. We don't have it on during the day but I put it on at 5pm when I'm making dinner and they have some down time. Once they start crawling and exploring they don't bother with the TV much (too much trouble to get into elsewhere)

Right better go one of my long posts again, B has just woken up and my boobs are heaving!

Oh forgot to say best night ever last night 7.30-11pm quick feed then 6.05 this morning 7 hours of sleep why do I still feel like death then?

TJuice - she is adorable

Note to self - get a Bumbo

Hiya everyone.

Minkus- Yeh im pritty calm..she writes well pulling out what hair she has left lol.

Libra- ty for the welcome
I agree it is soo easy to misread signs and assume they are ready for solids when they watch you eat..however if they are tryna grab ya food then id say thats a good sign they are ready lol.

Pigley- Sorry to here you was upset last night and anyone else and hope things settle for you all soon. I feel so lucky compared to what some of you have to deal with. Grace is usually good at night time..did try and pull one last night and i was getting frustrated but dh just put her in cot and said ignore her.

Jodie- Hope ur feeling better nw & congrats on the 5 yr anner and hope u have a good day .

3 month low..ive been a right hormone monster starting the day i got the blue line. Im am just evil and i feel so sorry for my dh..he does try bless him he really does but kinda lacks a lot of common sence and i have turned into a nag which i hate and makes me feel worst..he isnt good at cleaning or just anything really or maybe im being too picky i dunno but either way i am shocked he is still with me. And sex yeh forget it.

Just to let you all know Grace has improved 2day and hasnt been fighting us well feeding. For some reason the infacol was giving her some distress so held of it y.day anyway today so much better and taking 5ozs again and she also had a dodgy poo so beginning to wonder a tummy bug was reason..cant belive i didnt think of that..she had been sick a lot more then normal but nappys were fine till today. If it was a tummy bug then infacol prob just upset it more so gonna resume again with that nw.

xxx

jadey - glad Grace is feeling better today

I am going to disagree with you in the softest nicest way posible and say that if a baby is grabbing at food it doesn't necessarily mean they are ready for it, babies grab at everything, toys, hair (ouch mine is always tied back now) and try and get it in their mouths it's how they explore their world. Everything in the mouth. There's nothing that divides MN more that the when to wean debate though, theres another thread rattling on now.

I think you just have to read the research and guidelines and make your own mind up really.

Isaidboo he's just too heavy for me to carry! The after effects of the SPD together with my need for a foot operation leaves it impossible to carry him for more than a couple of minutes.
Disney, I'm exclusively breastfeeding.
He has cried for most of the day today, rubbing his eyes and yawning. We're not having much fun at all. He had just three 45 minute naps and a 20 minute one at lunch but has awoken screaming from all of them. I'm now wondering if there's something wrong. He was too tired to take all his 7pm feed but I'm guessing it's cos his body clock thinks it's 8pm. How do tell them the clocks went back?!
This 3 month thing is so true, sleep deprivation starts to really take hold and the blues set in something chronic. I do hope Nate decides to nap for longer soon, it's so upsetting for both of us.

When nate goes for a nap have you tried lying down with him? You get to rest too, and when he starts to stir you can shush / pat him a little to see if he goes back off. Your smell close by might help him stay settled a little longer - ok you won't get anything done but so what??? Sometimes Poppy won't settle until I feed her lying on the bed and stay there! (I am exc bf.)

I know with my first I was too eager to put him down as soon as he fell asleep because I thought I ought to be tidying up or whatever. Now I know a rested baby is a happy baby, and a tidy house isn't so important.

Please ignore these ramblings if you like! Just trying to suggest things which might help!