July 2008 - Living in the Twilight Zone of never quite enough sleep to be compus mentus

[libralady]

Just thought I'd better set up another thread as the old one is just about to run out.

Hello fellow Julyers (and June and Augusters!). Nice to see all the familiar names, feels like a long time ago that I was amongst you. Been battling PND for a while now and not had a minute to myself in the day to get on here and speak to you.
Nate is thriving, I've managed to exclusively breast feed since week 2 and he's just over a stone now! He was really settled in a great routine until about 5 weeks ago when he began to drop his long nap and now seems unable to get back to sleep after 45 mins, you could set your watch to it! I just about manage to get washed and dressed in the morning and throw lunch down my neck in the middle of the day but I'm invariably walking the streets with him come 5.30pm as he's screaming from overtiredness. He goes down really well at 7 after his bath, we wake him at 11 and he was sleeping till 5 or 6 until he got a cold this week and it's been nearer 4 but I'm hoping this is a blip.
As you may remember, all my family is up in Liverpool and I'm down here in London with very little help or respite and am finding it really tough, especially between 4 and 6 pm when the poor little mite is sooo tired and I'm starting to flag. I manage to hold it together whilst I'm around him but I'm a wreck later in the evening when i know he's tucked up in bed.
He doesn't seem to take a full feed anymore and wants more when he's sleepy, so we enter this cycle of feeding to sleep where he gets increasingly windy as he's getting little and often. He's drooling a lot and may be teething so I guess I just have to wait for him to settle back down but it's so heartbreaking to see his little crying face when I know a good nap will sort him out.
We're moving back up to Liverpool after Xmas and I'm counting the days till I have my family and friends around me. DH's lot have really let us down. FIL who dotes on his partners grandchildren has seen him only a handful of times. MIL comes for an hour on a Thursday as I was going to aerobics but I'm now waiting for a foot op (I'm falling apart physically too!) She was here yesterday and there was a pile of dishes, cat fur everywhere, I went out to the shops and came back only to be told that Nate had slept for 40 mins so she had a nap on the couch..hmmm, very helpful.
I hope you and your families are doing well and my heart goes out to all those struggling, my LO is healthy and happy and for that I'm so grateful but the depression and lack of help is taking it's toll, I know it's not forever and that things will settle down before too long but sometimes I just feel like dropping!

PS I'm normally asleep on the couch by 9 but was so wound up by MIL that I couldn't drift off tonight!

Oh Gilly so sorry to hear this...but good news you are heading closer to home. I sooo wish I could be closer to home and have some help. When there is absolutely no back up it is a lot to carry. I have days I can hardly remember...you just get through.
I have no experience personally of PND but have seen other's suffer and it is so tough on top of everything else you are battling with.
My little Rafferty has colic and watching him screaming and crying and his sweet little face covered in tears breaks my heart too. Luckily for me he is getting better and it is not every night now...

Hang in there and take care of yourself. Sounds like you are doing a great job considering what you are dealing with. As to in laws...I can only recommend moving country. It is the major plus to living away from my true home.

cilcx

Ty Disney

Cilc- I hope ur lo starts to get better with the colic.. Its just so not fair that they have to deal with that.
Grace suffers colic but more with the wind..past 2 days she has been so bad she has gone off her feeds and when she does get it down has spat it all back out and crying and squirming when we are trying to feed her. I dont look forward to feeding times now its such a battlefield to try and get her to take some milk.

I wanted to ask everyone how they feel about putting their lo on solids at 6 months?
Are any of you going to do at 4 months or even started already?
You prob already discussed this already lol.
I just wanted others opionions on how they felt about it.

xx

hey gilly i lived in kensington liverpool for years before i moved to gloucester when i was the bank i worked in kirkby, i would much rather live there than here in the uk
busy planning a 3 week vacation to disney world florida right now for me dh 6 of my children and my grandson my dd is panicking as she has never flown but her son is going but i wanna go mom il be ok hes only 3
we were thinking of june but i know from experience man is it busy that time of year weve done october november january as well and jan is so so quiet but the weather isnt good we cant win
anyone have any suggestions for a good month they have been

as for solids jadey i always have done BLW and i dont have much choice with samuel as he has a cleft palate and sicks through his nose not his mouth so we have to wait till hes is ready also hes having his cleft reapaired at 9 mths so we might have to wait till then
i know people say dont start solids till 6 mths but some babies are so ready and hungry all the time i think you have to go with your own baby and what they need

Hey girls..another frustrating week. DH spilled tea on my laptop and the keyboard died so had to wait a week for the keyboard to come in the post.

Gilly - You have my deepest sympathies.

tea time will be back in a bit when I'm not so anxious..

gilly I'm so sorry to hear your having a rough time of it. PND is so indescriminate (sp?) horrible, horrible thing. I hope things start getting abit easie for you soon, esp. with the move back home.

Jadey I weaned DS1 at 17 weeks, he'd gone from sleeping 7-7 to waking at 10 and 2 and 4, so wasn't doing me or him any good (he was getting so crabby, he couldn't drink enough milk to fill him up) He was 'ready' though, he was watching EVERYTHING we ate and was always trying to 'swipe' our food. Sam on the otherhand is now 16 weeks and completely different, showing no signs yet, I guess what I;m trying to say is I'm not a 'wait until 6 months' person, just go with what your baby needs.

On the subject of weaning, have any of you with the 'older' babies started yet? (Tjuice Peanut minipink)

Hello all - I'm back from Butlins with a pile of washing bigger than me! We had a lovely time and Poppy was an angel. (DS were a bit whingey but that's not unusual!!)

Have read the thread but can't poss remember everything.

SK - for your poll - Poppy is exc bf and has slept through the night for 2 nights running. Last night from 7pm until 8am, and the night before 7pm until 6am. I am hoping she will remember this new found skill now she is back home! She is 18 weeks now, and her night time waking has vastly improved since she decided she loves to suck her 2 middle fingers. I think she is settling herself back to sleep instead of wanting my nipple.

Re weaning; I plan to wait until 26 weeks. Poppy is def not ready yet. I did the DS at 16 and 21 weeks.

Gilly - really pleased to hear from you, hope the pnd eases up - being closer to your family will certainly help.

Disney - hope Sam's bruises are all better now x

peanut - I saw your pic in the paper (recognised your unusual real life name), and was surprised because I didn't think you'd had a prob with pnd even though you'd had a hard time with Charley being prem. Hope you kick that journalist's arse!

hello ladies and welcome to jadey!

Disney - we went to florida at the end of march/ begining of april and the weather was great - warm and dry, plenty warm enough for shorts/t-shirts everyday. We were there for Easter week which was heaving but the week before easter was great.

RE weaning, Isaac is almost 14 weeks now and seems satisfied and happy with just the boob, dd started solids at 16 weeks as she was like Jodies's ds1 -watching us eat, trying to swipe food, almost drooling when I ate in front of her! I'll wait until Isaac seems ready then we'll start the baby rice.

several people have said they think girls are hungrier and ready for solids earlier than boys, I'm a bit about it, anyone else any opinions?

Gilly - so sorry you're having a pants time at the mo, take it one day at a time and hold on to the fact that it will pass and things will get better.

My neice (8) and nephew (nearly 4 like ds1) stayed last night. V cute, all three of them in ds1's bunk bed! But guess kids don't know about the clocks changing and stuff like that...

Big sympathies Gilly. Wonder where you'd been, sorry things have been tough for you- hope it starts to improve soon.

Re: weaning- started ds1 at 18 weeks because (and I am v ashamed to admit it ) I was bored. He didn't show any particular signs of eeding it but was absolutely fine and took to it really well. Didn't improve his sleep a jot however! Won't be doing that this time though, Louis is 16 weeks and although he's following every morsel I eat with his eyes he still seems so small, so will be waiting for as long as I can. It's so much more hassle too- having to remember to take food with you for them as well as the changing bag etc, I found it much more of a pain tbh.

hi ladies

i actually gave elodie a teaspoonful of baby rice yesterday but to be honest, i may hold off a while as she isn't terribly interested and isn't giving out mad signs that she needs food.
she is 20 weeks now . . .

Hello Minkus. I too have been up since 5.45am. But I can't really complain as he's sleeping through the night, and we did trick Charlie into going to bed early (6.30pm) last night.

isaidboo - we have asked for a printed apology and some compensation for the libellous article. Will let you know how we get on... not convinced they'll shell out for it, but fingers crossed.

jodie - Charlie is now 22 weeks old and is still exclusively breastfed. I'm astonished how much easier breastfeeding has become, with Charlie only really feeding 5 times in 24 hours now. Weaning is on my mind, although I can't say I've seen any 'signs' that Charlie is ready. Mind you, they say to go by premature babies' corrected age when weaning. Don't think I could wait that long though as he would be 29 weeks old by then.

It's an interesting topic and I've organised for our local Surestart dietician to come and give some local mums a talk on the subject on Thursday. I'm very interested in baby led weaning, although have also heard that it's hard for babies to get all the calories they need from this method. I hope to gain some insight and make up my own mind. I'm certainly in no rush as I'm enjoying the state of play with Charlie at the moment, and he's BIG so no problem with weight. He's also sleeping through the night and has no sign of teeth.

Gilly - I too was wondering how and where you were. Sending you hugs too. You must feel so isolated and looking forward to being closer to your family. I don't live that far away from you so please let me know if you ever want to catch up for a coffee/drink, etc. Would love to see you.

peanut - I want to do the baby led weaning too. this book is out in November so I am going to buy it. Gill Rapley is the expert apparently.

Poppy woke up at 1am and 4am so 2 nights sleeping through was a fluke...
I might try putting her in her cot in the nursery tonight to see if she sleeps better there. She has been in a travel cot while we were away so I wonder if she wants more space than the moses basket. Do you think she could be waking up trying to fidget and not having room? Also I know it is recommended to sleep in parent's room for 6 mths. I can't fit anything bigger than the moses basket in my room. Anyone else got their baby in a different room?

Morning all raining as usual here today (yesterday was awful) despite the extra hour I am still knackered, B was up about 4 times I think last night she is really good during the day, moans a bit I put her in her cot and she goes off to sleep. Even at night she's good at getting back to sleep.

weaning - I'm holding off to 26 weeks as I'm lazy and cannot be bothered with purees, DD1 was 24 weeks, DD2 26 weeks, few purees then straight onto BLW, I just make them little bits of whatever we are having stick in on their high chair and let them get on with it, then maybe give them a yoghurt too. DId the whole pureed carrots/ice cube Annabel Karmel thing with DD1, too much of a faff plus is a few spoonfuls of baby rice going to give more calories than milk?

isaidboo - we moved B into a travel cot downstairs yesterday, it's multipurpose, for naps during the day/paypen/somewhere safe for her to be dumped if needs be. She was toppling out the moses basket nearly. We have the bedside cot next to my side of the bed upstairs she starts the night in there usually ends up she's in the middle of the bed with loads of room and I am half sleeping on the bed half in the cot!

gilly - sorry to hear you are having so much of a hard time, don't feel alone as you are not there are so many of us feel like it too.
I have no help whatsoever, my Mum has seen B once since she was born, she has actually only been in my house twice this year and when she is here she sits and expects tea and lunch nad hardly interacts with the DDs. I see MIL once a month and she doesn't really help either so I know how hard it is. I get very when I see friends Mums dropping DC off at nursery etc and them helping out. Keep posting on here I find it helps a bit to have a rant sometimes

hello to everyone else I have missed hope the extra hour doesn't mess the babies up too much, I'm off to get ready for the Singing Kettle which is a childrens show thing like banging your head against a wall for an hour but DDs love it.

Hello all,
i'm new to mumsnet, thought i'd give it a go as im feeling a little lonely nowadays!

I saw your posts on weaning, im really impressed at how many of you are managing to hold off. At 12 weeks i gave in and let my son try baby rice. He kept screaming whenever he smelt our food or saw us eating!!! He hated the rice but loved the cow and gate apple and banana cereal. He is now 18 weeks and having 3 square meals a day including pud for dinner. He still has milk with them and 2 other bottles squeezed in elsewhere.
I found that he was much happier and he would then sleep from 8pm till 8am!!! Not bad as he had horrendous collic till he was 10 weeks!

With regards to sleep time, i also found that a bath followed by bottle (boring low lights not talking to him)then bed really helps. He knows his routine better then we do! You could set a clock by him now! Routine does seem to be the key for us.

Hi All

gilly sorry to hear you've had a rough time...can totally understand as have ahd PND with every baby and on meds now hope things improve for you aoon

Re weaning....Abbie is almost 20 weeks and only 15 adjusted but she has been soooooooo hungry lately that I gave her a little puree the other day and she loved it...seemed like she knew what she was doing too....am only giving a little each day and am monitoroing her sleep and nappies before I increase or decrease. Other dc's had puree at about 5-6months too

Oh forgot about halloween smileys so.......

Hiya Ladies

The reason i ask about weaning is coz Grace has been unusally off with her feeds past few days..she gone from taking 5oz to 3-4oz and i dont understand why.
Thought maybe wind but she seems a lot clearer with that and burping a lot more nw back on infacol.
She gets very fussy and restless and squirming about when we feed her and sometimes cries out as if in pain. Even when we give her infacol she gives that reaction which is odd coz she never minded it before.
She dont appear ill and when not feeding is happy and smiling.
Im getting a lil worried nw so gonna have to speak to hv on wednesday. I checked her gums and cant feel anything and not red or raised so dont think she is teething and her tonugue looks fine too.
She is 14 weeks old nw and not sure if to give baby rice a try or not.

xx

Jadey is it time to move up a teat size maybe? Perhaps she's getting cross because the milk isn't coming out as quickly as she wants? Just a thought.

Well I am a bit tired after my mega early start with the cousins, (looking after four children on my own, as dh was away last night, is what I believe is known as a contraceptive) plus Louis decided to wake up every hour last night . His sleeping is really deteriorating- as if it could get much worse- he goes to bed at about 7.30, I feed him to sleep lying on our bed then transfer him to his moses basket when we go to bed. Then when he next wakes, prob about 2ish, it's touch and go whether he settles and so ends up in with me, at which point he snuffles and snorts and squeaks until he finds my boob for what feels like the rest of the night. Well it definitely was last night. And during the day, although he goes into his basket ok, he wakes and won't resettle at the end every sleep cycle so never goes more than 45 mins at the most. Which is hard work. And now I'm worried that he's starting to do the same during the night. Need to help him settle himself but don't know how, any ideas out there? Could really use the advice!

Hello all, sorry haven't been on here in a while, not much happening with us really... P is generally quite a chilled little thing, she is just growing out of her 3mth clothes, can't believe it! DS on the other hand is getting his molars which on Friday turned him into monster child. Fortunately he has been ok since!

However one friend of mine her DP proposed to her and then about 6weeks later said he wanted to split up altogether - - what an arse, kicked her and their 18mth old DD out of their place, so they have been staying here there and everywhere. Obviously well shot of him but grrr... and another friend, DS's non-religious-godmother and my bridesmaid, her dad died suddenly last week so I have been trying to be strong and helpful for both of them.

Sorry to hear about PND Gilly, hope you are getting some help.
Minkus not sure what to suggest, have you tried the baby whisperer's E-A-S-Y routine? Worked for DS, essentially teaches them to settle themselves to sleep.

Hi jadey,
My son had colic and i gave him infacol, like grace he took it fine then one day it wasn't enough, i gave him the max dose (2 droppers i think, read the box!) it helped but i found occasionally he needed gripe water as well to help after the feed.
He screamed like mad while taking the gripe water but quickly settled down after he'd had it.
Minkus has a point about the teats! Jack got really stroppy if enough milk wasn't getting through. I gave in at 12 weeks and gave him baby rice, although too bland for him, he loved the baby cereals and has never looked back.

Your hv will say don't try baby rice, but it's your call if you think she is ready. they go by government guidelines which are based on an average baby, but all kids are different and develop at varying rates. Plus the baby food says from 4 months on the box!!!

jadey - your baby does not sound ready for baby rice imo. You suspect she might be in pain - adding solids to a struggling tummy is not a good idea.
Try a different teat - it could be the flow rate. Also try feeding in a very quiet, dim place - it could be that she is just distracted too easily at the moment - the world is very interesting. Could be teething signs - try rubbing some calgel / bonjela on the gums before feeding. Have you tried adjusting your feeding times? Perhaps she will feed better if you leave the feed a little late so she is hungrier.

Hi everyone.

I changed her teat flow 2 weeks ago so she is on the 3mt one now and she wont handle the nxt size up cause she has just got use to this one.

I will try giving her another doppler of infacol.

I am still demand feeding..usually every 2 1/2 3 hours.
Tried routine feeding to every 4 hours but didnt go down too well and spoke to hv and she said some babies can only handle small amounts at a time which i think is Grace to a tee and im the same with my feeding habits.
I wish she could go longer..i will try her again. She could take 5oz before no problem its only been like this a few days.
She happy as larry otherwise.

She could be teething..does their gums have to be red/raised when they teeth or can they look normal does anyone know?
She dribbles a lot and has been chewing her hands since 2 months old and does pull her ears sometimes so will give teething jel a try.
Thx for the advice

xxx

Jadey agree with isaidboo, especially if you have a collicky baby like me. Quite often their stomach is very sensitive. I would definitely hold off. I found Rafferty was acting like he was starving, but once we tried a new teat he was so much happier. But then...I was out at book group last week and my DH gave him some baby rice thinking he was starving...the pain, cramps etc. he suffered as a result were awful.
Obviously all babies are different. I weaned my DD at 5 months (they used to say 4 months and now it is 6 months)but am definitely waiting longer because of Raff's colic.
Oh by the way welcome!
SK forgot to say Rafferty is exclusively bf, except for the occasional formular when I am out and DH has to feed him and I have not been able to express enough. His last feed is about 9.00pm and then he wakes usually between 5.30 and 6.30am.
I will be going away next week so I think I will be formular feeding him more from now on.
Time to put tea on...

Hi All,

Gilly- Sorry things have been tough for you. Wont be long before you have your families support

Clic- Hope Raffetys wind improves soon.

Isaidboo- Glad you all enjoyed Butlins.

Re weaning- Abigail is 13 weeks and hasnt shown any signs yet so will let her take the lead there.

Smudge123- Welcome

Jadey- I agree with Minkus about the teat size.. Abigail has been on number 2 teats for weeks now as she was getting frustrated that she wasnt getting it quick enough.
Abigail can often be really fussy when feeding and we usually find its because theres too much going on and shes so nosey. She will toss about like crazy but moved to a quieter room usually helps.

Minkus- not really sure what to suggest. Abigail occasionally decideds to stay awake after a night feed which is most annoying!
If she wakes and its not for food, Sometimes just letting her fuss abit helps and she settles herself back off.

Had a manic weekend here. We have had 5 friends round for one of our regular poker nights.
Was great fun and had my first proper drink (or should that be bottle!) since my BFP.
Things didnt wind down till about 2am so was not impressed when Abigail woke at 3.30 and refused to go back to sleep for a good hour! Typical! I swear she knew!

Be interesting to see what happens to the bedtime routine tonight with the clocks changing.

oohh.. Thanks for the photo comments on Facebook
Jodie- DH says Yeah, you can reserve her- but it will cost you!!