May 2007 - They are off and running, wobbling and falling down again.

[JamInMyWellies]

New thread needed.

All excellent advice. I am going to do it. We can't carry on like this.

Lups

Good luck Pink - online tonight if you need a hand to hold (well if I can stay awake [grin} )

Quick question - is it ok to go swimming in early pg or are you advised to wait bacause of the chlorine?

Go PJ you can do it. Ignore horrid RL friend she will get her comeuppence one day. Thankfully no-one i know uses mumsnet well not that I know. I think my mum lurks but I have never posted anything mean about her so am ok.

PJ are you on MSN? if so chuck in my email [email protected] and I will log on tonight to give you a cyber hand hold or kick up the bum whichever you prefer.

Go PJ. Go PJ. Go PJ .... You can do it. It may be a few nights of hell but then it could be sorted forever and ever. We've now had about 6 weeks of going down at 7.30-8.30 am. Its amazing how much difference getting a good night's sleep makes. Be strong mate

Can I ask you lot another dilemma? I'm starting to experience a few ishooos with my mum. Sorry to burden you all (especially you Lups) but I need your advice. To put this into context, I am an only child, and have an extremely close relationship with my mum, who, as you know, looks after L two days a week. You also know that on the majority of evenings since L was born, she has come round to help me, for up to a few hours.

There are three examples:

1. L being bathed by mum and me, I did something (can't remember what) and then I said, 'mummy's rubbish isn't she', to which my mum said, 'mummy is just a big kid'. For some reason this read to me as she was saying I wasn't being adult in my parenting. I know this sounds stupid, but it really felt as if she was calling me a less than responsible and authoritarian parent.

1. On Sunday, I was wearing quite a low cut dress. I said to my mum in front of a couple of my friends, 'I felt a bit self conscious in church because my boobs are on show'. She said, 'why change the habit of a lifetime'. Now I do have big boobs, but I swear, they are very rarely out!

1. On Sunday (again) Mark's aunty commented that my mum had said she had no time because she was 'always at work or looking after the baby'. My mum must have been talking to her about it, and somehow it hurt more because it came from a member of Mark's family.

1. On Sunday (again) Mark's aunty (again) commented that I should do something, (can't remember what) and I said, 'oh I haven't got time'. To which my mum and her burst out laughing, seriously, they thought it was hilarious, and she said 'Oh yes, you have such a busy life'.

Now, if I tackle my mum on any of the above, she will go straight into defensive mode and start shouting at me. Definitely. Or am I just upset because she's probably right in that I rely on her a lot. What was the boob comment all about? And does she think that by relying on her support, this somehow makes me a less than responsible parent?

Swimming is fine Lups.

PJ - not a great one to give advice on rl with mums (I don't get on with mine and we try and avoid each other as much as possible ) but it does sound like she's either:-

a) feeling a teeny bit "put upon". In which case, you need to have it out with her and say that you really appreciate all her help, but worry she's not having enough time to herself and if she wants give the evenings a miss and/or wants you to make alternative arrangements for the 2 days, then she just needs to tell you

or

b) She's just feeling a little bit weird about her only child now being all grown up and a mother herself and is wanting to try and "babyfy" (not even a word but ykwim) a bit.

Maybe give each other a bit of space for a while and knock the evenings on the head ? I would imagine L might settle a bit better at night if she doesn't have the added excitement of having Nanny around ?

Sorry if I'm way off mark

Tilly - I fear you are right. On all counts. Getting L's sleep sorted out would help us all. Although there is another lady in Sleep who is trying to convince me not to do it.

Jam, we still give D lots of milk at home though I'm not sure how much CM gives him (I know she does but not the quantity). We also offer him water quite frequently as well. I'd ask anyone who challenged us why, but no one has.

PJ, is it same friend who stayed who's on MN (and if so why?) or is this 2 different people. You sound like a very loving mum, and I'd take advice from all those wise people here who have it sorted on the sleeping (we don't at all, and our latest routine seems to involve a longish walk in the buggy as he can't seem to wind down anywhere else but that still works at the moment). I'd put those ahead of the views of people with no children yet or at all.

As for your mum, she obviously did bring you up, but on the other hand, she's one person close to you. I think the value of mumsnet is that we can get a variety of advice that comes out of different experiences, but also from people closer to us in age.

Hi elkie - no, its two different people - RL friend who stayed on Saturday has no children, RL and now MN friend has two.

PJ - its entirely up to you on the cc thing. At the end of the day, if you really do not want to do it, then you won't be able to. I know there are people who are against it (and I very much classified myself as one of them). There's no way I would feel comfortable doing it to a 6month old or even a 10 month old but it got to the stage with us, where she was a year old and her non sleeping was making us all (including her) grumpy and unhappy.

I think when they're tiny and they rely on you totally, I wouldn't do it but now they're a bit older and they know how to play you, then you need to do something to show them who's boss

What's the worst that can happen ? She will not remember it. She won't hate you (although I had this fear as well which is why I went out and let DP do it....but she's still a big daddy's girl so clearly doesn't hold it against him) and she won't be physically harmed by it

But - like I said before the onslaught of utter waffle - if you're not happy with it, then you just need to accept the situation as it is for a while and wait for her to grow out of it (in which case, I'd suggest investing in some bed sides or putting your mattress on the floor so at least you can put her to bed without having to go with her)

Oh PJ, on the mom front you need to put her in her place. My mom and I have a great relationship, but when it comes to my parenting and life choices I put her in her place when she makes unhelpful comments. How does she expect you to be more of an adult, when she doesn't talk to you like one.

You should send L to MKG sleep bootcamp. After a week I'll send her back to you with much better sleep habits.

I wanted to say that even Mateo who is almost three usually still has a good cry before falling asleep. I think it's their realization that the day is done.

MKG - that sounds great!! She's on her way, let me just finish taping her up...

Tilly - I am so encouraged by your success story. I am just so worried about what is to come. What is wrong with me FFS!!!

PJ - I had knots in my stomach the size of a small country for a few days before we did it. Its natural. Its your little girl and you want to protect her to the ends of the earth and don't want to do anything which will make her unhappy...but its for her own good (a bit like having jabs - I hate it - but know its got to be done)

Sorry to hear about your ishoos with your Mum PJ. I have always been close to my mum and have to bite my tonge a lot. She is always going on about how I should be more organised but since looking after C for a couple of full days and seeing what my life is really like she does seem to be relaxing a bit. I txtd her on Sunday to say I didn't really want to go out for the day as I had so much to do and she txtd back "the work will still be there tomorrow,go out and enjoy yourself". DP and I nearly passed out - I think she had a brain transplant for the morning!

The latest ishoo is the blardy potty! She brought one round, I took it upstairs - she looked after C again Saturday pm and it is downstairs again! The woman is obsessed. Apparently we were on it from 6 weeks and trained by 18 months. DP was furious when he saw it and will probably say something to her if she persists - I just smile. DD1 and I taught him to put it on his head last night as a hat - possilby not the best move for when he does start using it .

We all have stinking colds at the mo and I am really tired - supposed to be resting now but just been doing jobs while C in bed. I'm sending my ironing out again - very naughty but necessary as I will never do it and it is one less stick for my mum to beat me with!

Sky - my mum has started with the potty thing too!!! Apparently we should start 'holding her over' or something.

Tackled said friend about what she said. Apparently she has just had a termination and was feeling a little defensive on Sunday when surrounded by so many kids.

Potty's at 13 months you have got to be kidding. I have never potty trained a child before 2 normally 2 1/2.

PJ cant give you any advice re mum situ except be honest. Sorry about your friend though bet you feel a bit foot in mouth.

I am the worst mother in the world today I went to the loo and forgot to close the stairgate cue me sitting having a pee and hearing thud thud thud etc screeeeeeaaaaammmmm. Poor Archie had fallen down the stairs . He seems to be ok has been running round the garden and chattering away as normal have put him down for his pm sleep will have to check on him lots this arvo.

Oh Jam - that is a nightmare - I have often wondered (mid-wee) how you would get off the toilet in that situation.

Glad to hear Archie hasn't taken any harm though, I'm sure we've all fallen down the stairs as kids. I broke my arm when my mum was at work and my dad was looking after me, when I was 3. She still berates him for it 28 years later.

mid wee running meant having a little dribble down my leg and pulling my knickers up as I ran.

Oh Jaysus.

Where is SOH - I've just seen her posting on another thread - I've been waiting for her to email me, like, forever!

Has she indeed... i will have words with that one.

Pink sorry about your mom, i think once you have controlled the sleeping ishhoo and she isnt round every night it will be much better. You can sort of phase her out of the evening. She will have more time to herself and so can you and dh! Less time together and more time you are in control of your own family. She will be ok and will find other things to do.

Do the sleep thing if you are ready, it's no good starting it if you already have an excuse ready. Be firm, be strong, i know you can do it! The routine you have planned sounds fab too.

Oh my god B has been screaming all day or sleeping. He had his Men c jab yesterday and has been utterly miserable. I am worn out. Too many things to do and a grumpy baby on the hip while doing it all.

TYG i hope you have rested today! The names are so lovely Which buggy did you get?

Lups glad the doc went ok, all will be well. Sit on it for now but share the news when you need to, your mum will be great. Lemony things you have eaten today???

Cocktail woman, a fire??? Good lord. We have bright sunshine here You wanna come over for a holiday? I need a J squidge. Did you get new chickens?

Bought B a cup today, went out without his bottle. It is an Avent magi cup with toddler spout, he took it! Comes out much better then the anyway cup.

Right screaming baby again

Oh no LG&T, poor you and Beau.

I'll only come for a holiday if I can bring Margaret, dump all the kids on her then you and I can go off someplace romantic quiet. In the meantime I'll be sending J over for a squidge because he starting to complain. A lot. And that's not how he has been for the past year. If he doesn't stop I'm sending him back.

I'm gutted because the chicken man has run out of our special chickens til the end of the year He is going to ask around and see if he can get me some. I could buy some from the side of the road but they are all scrawny and white and not healthy and bonny looking like the other ones. Bastard mongoose.

Now can you all just update me on what jabs your bubbas are having just now, I need to keep up to date at this end.

I didn't need the fire in the end. Luckily the sun broke through in a watery haze long enough for the dc to play outside and for me to take off one cardi.

Now it's cocktail time here, anyone want to join me in a G&T before I go out? Hahaha, none of you can because you are all pregnant. Sorry. I best have one for you all.