December 2007. Laughing, sitting, rolling, whatever next - sleep perhaps?

[Wizzska]

Hello ladies, will you join me here?

morning,

loucee the BCG is not on the usual set of immunisations, but we are offered it as an extra down here. Maybe it's because there has been an increase in TB with immigration? I don't know. Not a nice jab- positioning really important to get the jab under the skin rather than in the muscle.

Louise . Although, i am sure that a lot of DHs are probably thinking the same, but are a bit more tactful about it. I suspect DH would like me to be more into sex, i could frankly do without it totally, and have explained to him that it is difficult to switch from BF to having your breasts fondled for another reason! I also suspect that he doesn't know the full benefits of BF for the child. Doesn't stop him having opinions, though. The classic last night- do you think we are going to her too soon when she is crying at night! WTF- she has been sick!, 1 awful night, next night i had to feed her at 3.30, following night 2 dummy relacements and some soothing, last night one dummy replacement. so she is getting better again. And it was him who kept getting up to pop in the dummy when she was 'thrashing around' ie keeping him awake!

He was replacing the dummy when we were away- dd has her own room at home.

Hi ladies, thanks for your messages. It's a tricky subject as I genuinely don't think that men understand the whole subject of breastfeeding. In his defence, macd, I think he means all 3 of us getting on with our lives as I don't particularly enjoy feeding in public and not being able to find somewhere suitable to feed dd was an issue when we were on holiday for example. I think men just look for the practical solution and he thinks formula is the answer to everything but I think there are issues with this - sterilising, preparing in advance etc.

Awen - thanks for your kind words and the message from your dp!! I hope your bruising is getting better.

I'm going to try and talk to him about it again tonight. I think that part of the problem is that we have 2 friends who had babies at roughly the same time as us and neither of them are breastfed now. In one case, she didn't even try to bf and in her words 'went for the easy option' (formula) I have to admit to being at this. In the other case she only managed to bf for 2 weeks as she had bleeding nipples and the baby wanted to feed 24/7. I feel sad for her because I think that if she had received more support she may have been able to continue. Anyway, I have to admit that I do get envious of them sometimes as they can go out together and the baby can be looked after overnight etc but I keep thinking that we will be able to do that in a couple of months.

Just adding my words of support to the breastfeeders feeling pressure.

Im all for having the option of bottles available when YOU and BABY may need them but if you give up due to external pressures its a recipe for resentment.

I dont find it ANY easier bottle feeding than I did breastfeeding. Yes, there are some benefits (ie someone else giving a feed etc ec) I still sometimes get to the end of the day and suddenly remember my milk isnt on top and have to stand and prepare feeds, washing bottles etc.

One other benefit is sometimes baby just want a little "nip", a little bit extra, a little snack or comfort feed and for me to do that I have to prepare a full bottle, faff on with milk and potentially waste precious EBM if she doesnt want it all. Instead of just lifting my top and letting her have a nuzzle.

but since we moved to bottles I can honestly say mathilda has only been given a bottle once or twice by someone else - I still want to be doing the feeding as she is my baby! and just like when i breastfed i enjoy giving her the feeds.

I miss latching her on so much. I often have a really physical need for her to feed from me, but alas, it just doesnt happen and that is sad.

Im getting better at reconciling that bottles had to be the way for us but at this point, if i had swapped because of pressures from my DH i would be finding it much, much harder.

I miss being able to marvel at how amazing my body was to sustain her and grow her.

I dont think mathilda suffers as a result of not feeding directly from me but there IMO is a certain level of closeness that I dont think you can recreate with bottles. (hope this isnt an insensitive comment, just talking from my recent experience)

Even though she is mainly getting my milk one of the things that saddens me is that when breastfeeding any germs the baby might be encountering enter your body via the saliva round your nipple and your body then creates the antibiodies especially for her at that time - how F*ckINg amazing is that!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAh there I go again, warbling on

IM SO PROUD OF YOU ALL FOR CONTINUING

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Boucing - Send you lots of best wishes for a better night sleep. Have you tried cluster feeding? I feed DD2 at 6pm, 8pm and dream feed (even though she only takes 2 oz of formula) and this usually last her to 3am.

Beanster - sending you lots of hugs and please talk to us about whatever you think might be making you feel low, no matter how small it is.

Louise - well done for make it to 16 weeks of BF. I think you might need to explain to your DH the reasons/benefits of BF and how the time you intend to BF is a small blip on the rest of your lives together.

Loucee - with regards to BCG - as I understand it is only offered to children whose parent are of certain ethnicith (primarily African/Asian)

Awen - hope you and Samuel are ok. xxx

i am caucasian as is DH. I was offered bcg as an option i think because i am in london

That was a beautifully written post pecka I'm glad you're able to manage your feelings in such a positive way AND give advice to others at the same time.

Louise76-sorry you've ended up having to deal with this, i think its quite a common problem and arming yourself with lots of info and facts (cos men love facts) is the way forward. TBH I've had such mixed feelings about bf this time (did not see that coming after a seemless 12m with dd) that i'm trying to remind myself (when feeling low) that as Loucee says by 6 m its only 4/5 feeds a day and by 9m it was only morning and night bf for dd (and instant on-tap comfort if ill/teething etc) And as for going out and staying away overnight? Can you actually imagine enjoying that right now? I don't think i would (Don't get me wrong i'd love a good night out but a few hours would be fine..) Anyway, that's bit of a waffle but i hope you get the support you need

Awen-i'm puzzled at the weight loss but its given me the kick to get back healthy eating-also the sheer terror of being in a bikini in Italy this july

BT, don't beat yourself up for having as many slobby days as you want, sometimes i snuggle up with ds for as long as he sleeps during the day. You need to get as much sleep as poss for your own health...going to have a look at your thread now

Ambi-on the last thread you asked about bf feelings 2nd time round, well as i said above i have felt dif. about bf ds, its def. been more hard work (but then i was only 24 when i had dd-more energy!) I didn't expect these feelings but i want to battle them as i somehow think i 'owe' it to ds to provide (what i consider to be) the best start as i did with dd. I know i'd regret it now we've got this far...but some days i really resent it...

cazzy, how's your lo today after jabs?

everyone else, happy thursday! (wow this week is flying past, ds nearly 15weeks!)

oh and loucee, hope ds is feeling better after jabs. I am dreading the next lot after ds' bad reaction last time...

oo - thanks to whoever it was for telling me that pump and dump was a fallacy. Feel a lot better about my evening glass of wine, now!

Hello again

Just want to reiterate what Lizzer said - thanks Pecka!! How kind of you to take time to type that lovely post when you have had issues with bf yourself.

Oh no don't feel guilty at all Suey!! Sometimes the thought of my daily huge glass of red gets me through the afternoon/bathtime/bedtime hassles

hi everyone,

amani - so pleased to see you sounding (SEE you sounding??) so much more positive. I think you're doing exactly the right thing in trying to make yourself do something everyday even though you don;t feel like it and the more you make yourself, the more you'll feel like doing it

suey - Yes I also think the pump and dump thing is a load of rubbish - certainly if you've only had one drink. Is Millie OK now? Conjuctivitis sounds horrid

Wizz - i was also impressed by your cheekbones in the pic!! In fact I think my first thought when I saw the pic was, wow Wizz is a bit of a babe!!

clara - didn't realise you were near oxford - thought you were in Cornwall for some reason - don't know where I dreamt that up from. I'm really excited about going to Oxford although I still haven't found out if I've got the job yet. We'll have to meet up when you get back from Pakistan and our children are 4 and 2 - can you imagine?!!!
Love your little aside to Martha btw - you never know she might be reading this in 20 years time..

Louise - I feel a bit sorry for your DP although also angry on your behalf. I think it's so hard for men to understand the emotional significance of BF for mothers. I know my DH thinks I am far too militant about it and I think he secretly wants me to stop when Milo is 6 months. From your DP's point of view he probably thinks as long as your baby is fed and content then that is all that matters, and to some extent he has a point, as does my DH. But as mothers there is so much more to it than that as Pecka's post shows. Anyway good luck with talking to him and hope he can see it from your perspective

Is anyone else's baby standing up (assisted obviously - we don't all have genius babies like clairey!)? - Milo has just started doing this and absolutely loves it. I stand him next to Zinzi and tell her how tall she is - she also loves it - at least half an hour's entertainment per day

oops Zinzi is my DD btw - didn't mean to write her name!

God Suey your dh needs to spend a couple of nights here if he is complaining about getting up twice to stick a dummy in! That would be an excellent night in my book!

Louise I think men sometimes have issues with understanding breastfeeding. Firstly they see us getting tired and want to help us-to them the simplest option is to give the baby a bottle (we really just want sympathy but they look for a solution!). Secondly, very few men have read up on breastfeeding/bottlefeeding and to them it is just a way of feeding the baby. Thirdly, they don't have the hormones that breastfeeding produces floating around in them and so cannot possibly understand the emotional side to breastfeeding.

Pecka's post is very well written and is quite similar to my experiences when dd changed to formula. So many times I would be about to go to bed and realise I still needed to wash/sterilise/prepare bottles for the night and following morning. It also didn't change dd's sleeping at all, I just had to give her bottles two or three times a night instead of breastfeeding her.

Yes there are certain sacrifices to be made by exclusively breastfeeding, for example I am meant to be going to a show in London at the beginning of May and am already really stressing about it! My parents would love to after the children overnight for me but I'm going to have to take ds with me. Luckily I have a friend who I can leave him with for the duration of the show and will leave her some ebm so I know he won't starve but his feeding is so erratic and he has only had 2 bottles so I'm worried about leaving him for even the length of the show! On the other hand I was able to leave dd for a weekend when she was 6 months old because she was formula fed by then. It was still really really hard to leave her though, and I have only left her twice in 22 months so I don't think breastfeeding is necessarily what stops you from doing it, it is just easier to (practically not emotionally!) if they are bottle fed. Even dh wasn't allowed to take dd out without me until she was nearly a year old, I just hated being seperated from her!

My experiences with dd are what are keeping me going with bf ds, sometimes it is bloody hard, like for the past few weeks where I have barely slept but that is down to the virus we had followed by his jabs, the cough and snot he has still got and now a growth spurt-especially when he is poorly I'd rather be helping him with antibodies through breastmilk than feeding him formula (no offence to any formula feeders, that is just my own personal thing- I dont actually think there is anything wrong with formula, I just prefer to give breastmilk while I can), plus in my previous experience apart from giving a few bottles early on when it was a novelty dh didn't do any of the feeds anyway so what difference would formula make to how much sleep I got?

oops sorry have really ranted on there!

Cross posts skid-I was wondering what your dd's name was only yesterday!

Right am going to write the rest here so you can all skip over my rant in the previous post if you want-I'll admit it was largely self justification as have been arguing with myself over being so determined to bf ds without even trying formula to see if it would make a difference to his sleep! Am very stubborn...

Amani so glad your dh is being supportive, that must make a huge difference. whenever I am down or upset my dh gets angry, not actually angry at me but angry that I am sad but it comes across that way!

BT sorry your nights are shit too, will look at your thread now. Also you are definitely being over zealous with your nappy changes . We get through 4/5 nappies a day with ds and 3/4 with dd-they both wear the same one all night unless they poo (not the same one as each other obviously, that would be tricky!)

Both mine had the bcg at 5/6 weeks because dh is African. We had to request it for dd where we used to live but here they did it for ds automatically. I think in most big cities now everyone gets it, but outside cities only for a reason.

Is anyone else loosing loads of hair? I know it's normal after having a baby but this morning I lost 3 handfuls just in the shower! My scalp feels really sensitive too.

Sorry Awen, also meant to say glad the op went well and to wish you a speedy recovery

Skid - thanks . Zinzi is a lovely name! What does it mean and where are it's origins?

oh why is it that everytime I sit down for my afternoon cuppa, DD2 wakes up from her nap.....??

....all she needed was for me to stroke her her head..

thanks amani - it is south african and means 'here to stay' - it is the name often given to big strong babies after the mother has had miscarriages/stillbirths but I didn't know that when I named her. it is also nelson mandela's daughter's name!

I am impressed at your optimism in thinking you might have time for a cuppa at all - i don't even bother making one anymore!

clairey - so much of what you say re BF is exactly how I feel. I also gave DD a bottle of formula from early on and was determined not to with DS. It can be really hard but I am so pleased I have made it work so much better this time and I feel like I have really bonded with DS as a result. Of course I bonded with DD as well but feeding was so hard that I dreaded it and felt terrible about it.

Good luck with the show - I'm sure DS will be fine but I completely understand you worrying. It can be hard but I think it is so completely worth it, don't you? And at the end of the day it is such a short period of time and soon they will be all grown-up and independent and we will hark back to these days when they needed us so much. God that's making me well up, I need to get a grip!

Oh and does fenugreek increase your milk supply? What form do you take it in? Is 'mother's help' or whatever it's called made of fenugreek too?

Fenugreek is supposed to increase milk supply, I got it when dd first refused the breast to try and express more for her but as she wasn't feeding it didn't really work. It does seem to be with ds though, even though he is constantly feeding there hasn't been a single time where I havent had a proper let down or felt like he isn't getting anything. To think I had all that extra milk to begin with and now I'm trying to up my supply!

It makes your wee/sweat/everything smell like maple syrup though! I think things like mothers help or more milk plus are a combination of different herbs and so are more effective than single ingrediant ones like fenugreek.

I have just under a month til the show-surely he'll have settled down a bit by then?!?

yeah Skid fenugreek is supposed to increase milk (can make your milk smell of maple syrup apparently!). No idea on dosage b ut my friend got hers from Holland snd Barratt.
What a lovely name too.

sorry, typing 1 handedly!

Hello to all and thanks for the support.
Pecka - I found your post very moving

Clairey - thanks for the nappy tip! I think my overzealousness stems from not being very confident with washables; have had a few leak. But I'm getting much better now have hardly ant leaks. Well except for the huge explosive poo this morning that leaked out of his nappy and down his leg