July 2017#7 - The One Where We Have Sleepless Nights and Master the Art of Eating Food One-Handed

[Notyetthere]

Link to the last thread;

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/antenatal_clubs/2962422-july-2017-6-labour-here-we-come

Thing is that's why it's worth spending out on the big ticket items because you do get the usage out of them. The one thing I managed to wangle was our stoke high chair and that will definitely be around for agessssss.

I just feel bad we didn't put our foot down with mil's charity shop hoarding.

She even bought her a potty before birth!!!

@CatRash I done them on the outside of my thighs as that's where they were doing it when I was in hospital.

@ButterflyFree sorry to hear about your argument with your mum.

I dread to think how much we have spent! We have been lucky with gifts and items given to us like steriliser and 2 Moses baskets and OH's nan put quite a bit towards travel system which was £900 😳but we started with almost £4K for the treatment to get pregnant so was never going to be cheap!

I've also been horrendous at self control when it comes to cute outfits and a bargain!

does anyone have any advice on introducing formula slowly?? I am really really struggling with breastfeeding and I'm in agony most of the time, I dread when j have to feed and I don't want this time ruined for me by this :( I asked midwifes and they told me to just push through and it will get easier but I'm constantly miserable. He is attached to me from about 6pm till 2am pretty much constantly . :( I don't want to stop cold turkey for his sake but I need help. If anyone has any advice it'll be much appreciated :)

Bless you @Holz657 - I experienced similar (not sure if you read my posts about it on the previous thread) and I also decided to compromise and start mixed feeding because it was making me so miserable and making me dread feeding my own baby.

The very first time I tried him on formula I gave him 90ml of the ready made Aptamil first infant milk in a Tommee Tippee bottle, and he took it immediately. The relief I felt at that moment was IMMENSE. I know it's probably not advised but I then didn't give a single breast feed for 24 hours because I was just so drained and my boobs were so sore and I just wanted to give them a rest.

After that 24hr break I alternated between breast and formula for each feed from then onwards (mainly pumping my breast milk and feeding it to him from a bottle because he is sooo strong and rough, and the pain of feeding him from the breast was unbearable. Now I only feed him once a day directly from the boob). We haven't had any supply issues or any nipple confusion. However, what I am now finding is that a feed of breast milk alone doesn't satisfy him and he needs a bit of formula to fill him up even after a breast feed.

I'm now thinking about winding down the breast feeding even more because it's still very uncomfortable for me (even when pumping) and it's quite disheartening that after all that effort of pumping and providing it for him, he still needs a top-up of formula anyway. So I think once he reaches 4 weeks old next Thursday I'll start replacing one more breast feed with a formula feed each day and hopefully that will allow my supply to reduce gradually rather than going through the discomfort of going cold turkey.

My midwives also gave me the 'just keep ploughing on and it'll get better eventually' chat but for me it was more about my mental state than the physical pain. I contacted a lactation consultant to come and visit me and she was brilliant; she didn't force the issue at all, she could see how down it was making me, and she fully supported my decision to start mixed feeding if it would make me feel better. She also told me not to feel guilty or like I was failing my son; he's had a lot of great nutrition from me and in the end it's more important to have a well and happy mother who looks forward to feeding her baby rather than resents it.

Hope this helps and if you have any more questions don't hesitate :)

Hi butterfly :)

Ah really? No I must of missed them!! It's so reassuring to know other people feel the same though and are going through the same thing. I feel awful about the whole thing, keep bursting into tears.

I was thinking about introducing one bottle tomorrow and then a few days later introducing another one and try doing it that way. Was your little one okay with the formula yeah? Like stomach wise? I'm also worried about engorgement but I'm guessing if I do it slowly it should be okay? Yeah I feel like a bit of a failure, it's definitely my mental state I'm more worried about. I can deal with the pain if I grit my teeth but I just feel so sad about it! I kinda knew the midwifes would push for me to carry on but I wish they would of helped with this when I asked! Hopefully he takes the bottle tomorrow and then I can start expressing to give him to give my body a break. Sorry for rambling on! Thanks for your advice :)

@Holz657 You're definitely not alone and you're definitely not a failure ❤️ I completely understand what you're going through and what you're feeling right now. That was me a week ago. My mental state has improved 100% over the past 7 days and I'm finally enjoying my time with my baby and feeling like I can actually do this whole motherhood thing.

The Aptamil ready milk is very gentle on the stomach so we haven't had any issues at all, thankfully. I think it's mainly the powder formula that can cause some constipation for babies because it's much thicker in consistency. The ready milk is obviously a bit more expensive than the powder formula so if cost would be a factor for you in the long term, I'd at least recommend starting with the ready milk to make transition easier for your little one's digestive system. I plan to stick with the ready milk all the time though - it's the safest, most sterile and easiest type of formula to use.

After I stopped BF suddenly for those 24hrs, I did end up a bit engorged on both sides but it wasn't too bad and once I did one pumping session everything went back to normal. I hope your gradual approach should mean you avoid the engorgement issue altogether, although like me you may find the relief of formula to be so huge that you decide to give yourself a little breastfeeding break too. Just listen to your body and if you feel they're filling up too much or getting even more tender, express some milk off and it should relieve it.

@Holz657 I started with a 90ml bottle of aptimil as well and he'd have about 10mins on a breast about 2hrs later and then formula again 2hrs later. For us that didn't last long and he started going the 4hrs without showing hunger signs in between the formula so only bf when he signalled. I expressed for about 5 days but baby stopped waking for extra and now is formula only.

I introduced formula as I got a sickness bug when home from hospital and I just couldn't keep up with bf on demand but the formula put us into that pattern and I could make sure he was getting enough.

Don't feel pressured to 'power through' do what's right for you and baby and ultimately that's you who knows what's best!

Like @ButterflyFree I think for our own sakes as well as baby introducing formula was the definitely the right decision 😊

Oh Holz don't feel bad. My baby had formula on day 3 in the hospital! She was feeding so much and I was so exhausted from the difficult birth that I just thought you know what, I need to lie down and rest. It gave me a much needed break.
Always recognise your needs because an unhealthy mother (in body or mind) cannot care for a baby. If you need to use formula go for it ❤️ my baby gets it all night and I feed her in the day or pump it out if she is being rough.
The first midwife said persevere but once they saw the strain it was taking on me they said just do what you can. Mix feed, formula feed, express, breast... we do it all.
I let my nipples heal for a few days and the relief was immense. Then I went back to expressing then reintroduced breast.

@holz657 thays how i was with pfb. Id dread every feed and it was so painful. at 6 weeks it got better and i did have lots of help available but i totally understand the pain and dread. We used to have the ready made aptimil on standby if it was too much but i didnt actually mix feed so not sure hiw youd reduce bf. If you get engorged a little bit if hand expressing can release the pressure without signaling your bidy to make more milk. Cold compress can help too i believe.

I dont think we spent much even with pfb. The nursery furniture (wardrobe,drawers,cotbed) were £700.
Pram and travek system £300
I think thats all we biught brand new and my mum paid.
Got a bouncer £20 and a second hand swing for £30. Cant imagjne paying the hundered and odd pound they are new.
Oh i did buy a new breast pump actually which i then sold....and have nkw bought again lol
Didnt keep anything from ds1. Sold it all. Now ive bought again lol

Speaking of breast pumps. Trying to manually pump with a toddler is impossible.
Can anybody recommend a single electric pump. Not Tommee Tipee as I can't get on with their flanges and pref a closed system to sell on. I like the look of the medela mini electric and swing but as they're open system is not be happy to buy second hand or sell on. It's only for an oz or so and the odd evening on occasion. So I don't need a huge system

Thanks all for your advice. I'm going to give him a bottle at his next feed and see how that goes. Hopefully he takes it fine, and then do that roughly same time everyday for a few days then introduce another one in 4 days and hopefully carry on that way! I totally agree that an unhappy mum means unhappy baby and at 2am when I'm crying trying to get him latched on that must be horrible for him :( thanks again for all your advice. Will let you know if it works xxx

Glitters check out the Ardo calypso pump. I believe it's a closed system. I used the hospital grade one when I spent a whole day in A&E and was very engorged. It was very good! In fact if my friend had not given me her medela I would have bought the Ardo on ebay.

When I say it was very good, I meant that at the time baby Fran was 10 days old, my nipples were very sore, and the manual pump at home was very painful as it pulled on the nipples and I could feel them split even further but the Ardo funnel shape didn't hurt at all.

I used the double ardo last time and it was fab. I loved that it was totally adjustable rather than straight settings.

No idea what you mean by closed or open system.
I use the tomme tippe last time (and sold it so bought another this time just not used yet). But i used it without the silicone insert and just used the plastic bit against my boob. Used to get 4oz at a time with it before. Hoping i can do thr ssme again so that i can donate to the milk bank

In a closed system, the vacuum tubes are completely isolated from the milk, so there's no way that milk can get in. Not the case with an open system, which is why it's not recommended to get a second hand one.

I hadn't thought of taking the plastic bit out

Came home from fil's and dh had been on Which and Amazon Now and had acquired the Swing as a present for me

Diamonds would have been nicer but I'll take the pump gladly 😂👍🏼

Oh dear. Baby Fran doesn't have long left before she is out of the carrycot. She has less than 10cm in length left before she is too tall for it. I don't think she will even make 3 months in it.

Good luck @Holz657 ❤️ sounds like you have a great approach towards it. Let us know how you get on.

@glitterglitters How thoughtful of your DH! Top of the range breast pump > bouquet of flowers any day 😂 Hope you get along well with the Medela Swing. It's been great for me.

@Notyetthere Wow! Baby Fran must really be thriving. It's great she's growing so much even with her recent vomiting tendencies (although not so great for the bank balance I guess as you'll have to shell out for some bigger sizes to accommodate her 😅)

I noticed yesterday that the skin around Baby Z's finger and toenails is starting to change colour and get much darker. I know babies' skin tone can take between 6-12 months to fully develop, and as a mixed race baby it'll be interesting to see how the combination of DH and I will reflect in Baby Z. A quick Google tells me that the darker skin on the fingertips and also behind the ears is generally a good indication of how baby's skin tone will eventually settle... Does anyone else know anything about this? @Notyetthere am I right in thinking Baby Fran is mixed race too? Did you notice any darkening around her nails in the early weeks?

Hey all, can I have some advice re: projectile vomiting? (Trying to stay off google).

Baby Luna was lying in her snuz and I noticed her tummy heaving, she was doing quite a large projectile vomit. I turned her head to the side so it would come out easier. This was at least an hour after a feed. Should this be happening? I'm concerned she could choke. (Aware my fears could be unfounded what with the anxiety and all).

Thank you x

linda I used to feed DD lying down and DS just can't get the hang of it.

not DD was a vommer and did gain weight pretty well. Was (and still is) very skinny. She never grew out of the sickness and we still have a bucket for car journeys.

algebraic So sorry to hear you've been ill, really glad you've got good support in place

butterfly Glad you've patched things up with your mum. These postnatal times are hard enough without being separated from your DH.

glitters I have the medela swing this time and am really happy with it. I also have a haakaa which is fabulous for sticking on the other boob when feeding or for whipping on if DS pops off mid flow and 'catches' a surprising amount of milk.

holz sorry to hear that feeding isn't going well. You need to go with whatever works for you.

Update from us: After feeding DD for a year I just expected that it would be a doddle this time but DS was tiny, struggled to open his mouth wide and got tired quickly feeding.

I mentioned it in hospital and to midwives who came to house but they all seemed to think things were ok. He lost too much weight and was put on a feeding plan (DH to give expressed milk in a bottle after each breastfeed) which helped him gain a little.

I noticed he couldn't poke his tongue out at all and mentioned it to health visitor who recognised that he had a tongue tie and offered to refer him for an assessment but it was a five week wait- we'd been struggling with bfing for three weeks already.

We went private for an assessment as could get an appointment two days later and his poor tongue was completely restricted right to the front, he couldn't even wiggle it side to side. She released it and since then he's been feeding better.

We are definitely in some 'bad habits' feeding wise as his latch isn't perfect and I'd adjusted the way I position him to help which is now the only way he can feed however he can now feed without frustration or getting tired before he's done.

I've just had a quick catch up read having been overwhelmed with adapting to this new life. Everyone seems to be doing brilliantly, though I recognise some of the challenges. I'm disappointed in myself that I moved on to formula feeding having had a mini meltdown after a marathon cluster feed, a loss in the family and anxiety at each feed over how long it might last.

Holtz, I completely understand what you're experiencing. I introduced one ff at night and then gradually increased to every other, before exclusively ff. I was advised to manually express milk to prevent engorgement, as expressing can continue to stimulate milk supply. Baby continues to feed regularly, no issues with taking the bottle and we seem to need to top her up at times e.g. If she's had a prolonged snooze. The relief I feel having made the switch makes me think it was the right decision though.

Please can someone tell me I'm not a bad person for considering nipple shields. I've been crying with the latch on this evening and I'm hoping shields will be the answer. One boob is a lot better than the other but I'm still sobbing when I know it's time for a feed. I think his latch is fine, as we're getting plenty of wet nappies, but I might ask the health visitor to take another look.

@Lallypopstick I got shields the day after we got home from hospital. So day 4. Totally don't feel bad! What is about them that makes you feel bad? X

@Lallypopstick not at all! Mine could not work out how to latch on my nipple and was so painful. I started using a nipple shield and it was amazing! Changed everything for us latched pain free straight away.